Pin Down

[loudmutes]

I was looking through a couple of the threads on the main page and noticed how many people hated the redundancy and 'bandage' feel of throwdown. I came up with what I thought to be an interesting replacement for it after building off of what a couple other people were saying.

Either incapacitating or stuning the target for a longer than usual duration, (5-8 second range), but keeping you in a channeled state. During the duration, dots would not break the incapacitate and you would deal damage equal to a tick of rend each second (possibly more or less based on balance issues). You can move to break the channel at any time. The most interesting part of it would be that whatever is done to you or your opponent is done to the other as well (in the case of dd, possibly lowering the duration of the channel as well). If your oppenents try to heal their comrade, you recieve the heal as well. If they damage you, they damage him as well (same applies to your teammates). Damage done by you or your target are treated seperately from this and act normally. Perhaps split them into percentages of 50%, but with the claimed massive health boost in Cata, I don't think any kind of split would be necessary.

I was also tossing around ideas of whether or not both you and the victim should still be able to use instant (sans whirlwind and similar) abilities, while disabling auto attack. Basically give warriors an ability with the feel of a brawl and clear CC potential in pvp. Weigh in with ideas or suggestions (or applause ).

[StrutAmari]

>>.... You haven't heard of Earthquake, have you?... (sorry for sounding like I'm calling you an idiot but you're making your pin down sound OP)
Edit: Warriors have enough heals as is so rid the healing ideas.

[Rabblerouser88]

Fist cleave....crowley style.

[loudmutes]

>>.... You haven't heard of Earthquake, have you?... (sorry for sounding like I'm calling you an idiot but you're making your pin down sound OP)
Edit: Warriors have enough heals as is so rid the healing ideas.

Yes, but healing isn't it's main function and can just as easily be turned against you if you begin to be taking the greater damage and forcing you to either back off to prevent them taking your heals, or have them also be healed. Unlike Bladestorm, you wouldn't be immune to CC during the duration either. To be effective, I imagine you'd have to seperate your target from his allies, lest you waste a cd.

As for Earthquake, I tried to find info on it and all I got was Shaman AoE. I'm assuming it prevents anything with a cast time though.

[Neichus]

Dev 1: You know what would make a really good new move for Warriors? Something like a grapple. It fits the class perfectly.
Dev 2: That does sound interesting, but how would it work?
Dev 1: [Insert loudmute's ability description]
Dev 2: Well, we haven't seen that before. But what is the Warrior doing?
Dev 1: He's channeling.
Dev 2: So in essence he's doing nothing for 5-8 seconds? Isn't that worse than a stun in nearly every way?
Dev 1: No, because the enemy team doesn't dare attack the Warrior while he's killing your comrade.
Dev 2: Yeah, but if you want to kill the guy your team doesn't want to heal you either. You're basically trading your Warrior for one of their players, except the Warrior doesn't do anything but hit one button. It becomes a game of using this ability when the grappled player's health is lower than the Warrior's so he can be killed without sacrificing your Warrior.
Dev 1: Hm. Well maybe nix the cross-damaging/healing aspect if it's going to cause those sorts of problems.
Dev 2: Then we're still in a situation again where this ability is worse than a stun in every way.
Dev 1: Yeah, but you don't "stun" somebody when you grapple them.
Dev 2: Well, that's true. But you can knock people down.
Dev 1: That might be confusing though since there are already knockdowns in the game and this is actually a stun. How about a rename to Throwdown?

The problem with giving channeled abilities to non-casters is that in general they rob you of all gameplay and act as a self-stun. As a caster casting and channeling aren't all that different. As a melee though, where most of your abilities are instant and auto-attack is a core part of your play, channeling just feels awkward. It's like a time out in the middle of the gameplay where you'd stop moving, stop using abilities, and just watch. This is in general why I think they just don't want to do something like grappling, because that's what it reduces down to.

[loudmutes]

I have a couple things to say to you Neichus: Bladestorm and Killing Spree. Those are both essentially channeled abilities, albeit, without a channel bar. It's a one button cruise control, for those two and this as well. I like the cross damage/healing aspect merely because it makes all parties involved think of what they're doing before they do it.

However, despite me thinking it's awesome to the Nth degree, I am oh so slightly biased. Seems like everyone who's commented so far think the idea is silly.

[Neichus]

I'm not saying the idea is silly. I'm saying that when you follow the implementation of the ability to its conclusion it runs into troubles. For instance you say you like the cross damage/healing because it makes all parties think, but I question whether it won't just be more likely that the duo is ignored under most circumstances. It's as Ghostcrawler said in a post once: coming up with good ideas is easy, making them work is hard. I don't think your ideas is bad from the get go, I just don't think it translates into good gameplay either.

As for Bladestorm and Killing Spree, they're definitely on the edge. I do argue though that in both cases you're still doing something. Just because you can't use abilities doesn't mean that you aren't able to move, generate Rage, and in general still feel like you're part of the fight. I can't draw a line for you and say exactly where an ability goes over it (which is why design is as much an art as it is science) but I'm trying to express why I do think most of the proposed grapple ideas do.

[loudmutes]

Fair enough.

[LizardMan]

Did something reasonable happen in this thread?
what the fuck

[fizikz]

If your oppenents try to heal their comrade, you recieve the heal as well. If they damage you, they damage him as well (same applies to your teammates).

name one other spell with a penalty this large? why does everyone suggest new abilities with some MAJOR flaw in them just so the response isnt "OMG SO OP NEVER LOL"

really kind of annoying...... also i think it's a bit silly in the first place.

---------- Post added 2010-08-15 at 04:38 AM ----------

As for Bladestorm and Killing Spree, they're definitely on the edge. I do argue though that in both cases you're still doing something.

you don't control your character during KS at all...



edit: i was really hoping that knockdown effects would be something new, not just "oh hey, its a stun... but with the animation of your character falling. still shares DR, though"

[loudmutes]

Did something reasonable happen in this thread?
what the fuck

Not everyone who makes an account to share an idea has to be an idjit while defending it. ;-)