The razing of Taurajo, view of both factions

[JustinJgh]

I play Alliance myself as Main. Believe me when I say that I do not side with the Horde, and due to being a Moderator on these forums, I don't even side with any of the 2 Factions and try to remain as Neutral as possible.
All I am saying, that with the history the Humans have in WoW, that it is very plausible that there is indeed some corruption with this.
Then again, the Blue's said "Alliance will find out that the Commander had some good reasons to raise Taurajo to the Ground", which indeed indicates that the Commander gave the orders out himself. All I said is that it is possible that there is some corruption in the Alliance.
Will not be the first time, and sure as hell won't be the last time.
Hell the same has happened to the Horde recently (although it was kinda dumb to keep the Leader of those Grimtotems in their Tauren Capital anyway).

He gave the orders himself, but according to the blue posts they were for a good reason... But whattever... I'll just leave it at we will see =)

[Maklor]

However, they do align with the Alliance in Stone Alone Mountains. They do not hate everybody, they just do whatever it takes that brings them the best outcome.

I know, all "evildoers" except the totally insane will use whatever opportunities they can get - I was just pointing out that that quest has a horde equivalent, horde kill the same grimtotems as well.

true but the grimtotem make up a sizable portion of the tauren race.enough that we can not really quote them as a blameless race.

Don't ever confuse race with faction, not sure why you bring up race at all.

[Buckwald]

I was thinking Political Corruption.
There are enough people in the Alliance their ranks that wish to destroy the Horde by all means possible. There are also enough people that wish to win the war, but without the amount of "civilian casualties" most wars have.
It seems to me that the General is one of those "We can not afford to lose, but like hell I am going to teabag the dead bodies of civilians that died".
Which is why I was thinking that there might be some corruption in their ranks. And lets be honest here, if you have ever played Alliance, you would have noticed that there are enough quests that contain some kind of corruption from within.

Of course I play Alliance, but my first and most loved toon is Horde

There always is corruption. People are always vying for power. Some want to see the Horde slaughtered, some want to just beat them to submission, some want a true peace.

I haven't played that quest, so I couldn't tell you how it actually turns out. But, you can't always blame Commanders for the actions of their Soldiers. You can hold them accountable, but if some one wants to do something, they will. So, yeah a rogue group might have killed everything in CT to try to get this "Horde-Loving" General out.

I would love to actually see the Alliance side of this.

[Garenzo]

Not to mention the big Alliance place further north in the zone where they're treating orc prisoners like back in (old) Durnholde keep.

[Albert the fish]

you forgot the shat'tar.
and these doing the wrong things for the right reasons are a hell of alot better then sitting around and letting them beat on you cause your too much of a wimp to risk killing some kids, this is WAR im sorry the kids will likely die if they don't run for the hills.

i don't count the shat'tar because i haven't seen enough of their views on anything besides the burning legion to know.

all i know is they worship the light and they hate the legion.
we know taht being of the light doesn't make you not evil by default so we just don't know.
i imagine they ARE good, but i cannot count them yet.

we've seen enough of pandaren cultural ideals to know that they are generally good

[Rukari]

This thread is just going to break down into rampant fanboi attacks from both sides.

You mean a whole thread of Horde pointing out that both Alliance and Horde are morally gray and do questionable things

While Alliance try to defend the act by suggesting that Camp Taurajo was in the way of advancing troops or that even if they were civilians they would've attacked the invading forces

Because when Horde kills civilians, they are monsters that massacre innocents who were picking daisies and petting puppies.

But when Alliance do it it's practical, necessary, and just a sad fact of war.

Go-go Rationalization Train, full speed ahead!

[Tauror]

There is one quest missing (and reaction) on all of this, the Varian's douche Ambassador that asks us to loot Taurajo ourselves. He even consider it would be for the best if the Alliance General (yes, the questgiver) died.

---------- Post added 2010-08-13 at 03:19 PM ----------

You mean a whole thread of Horde pointing out that both Alliance and Horde are morally gray and do questionable things

While Alliance try to defend the act by suggesting that Camp Taurajo was in the way of advancing troops or that even if they were civilians they would've attacked the invading forces

Because when Horde kills civilians, they are monsters that massacre innocents who were picking daisies and petting puppies.

But when Alliance do it it's practical, necessary, and just a sad fact of war.

Go-go Rationalization Train, full speed ahead!

This.

Both sides are full of douches, enough with the fanboy wars.

[maldias]

i would agree but im still wondering what this reason behind the cluster fucking of CT is, ifs its pointless its damnable if there is a good point to it its necessary so be it.

[JustinJgh]

You mean a whole thread of Horde pointing out that both Alliance and Horde are morally gray and do questionable things

While Alliance try to defend the act by suggesting that Camp Taurajo was in the way of advancing troops or that even if they were civilians they would've attacked the invading forces

Because when Horde kills civilians, they are monsters that massacre innocents who were picking daisies and petting puppies.

But when Alliance do it it's practical, necessary, and just a sad fact of war.

Go-go Rationalization Train, full speed ahead!

Hey, check out Jessie Cox's new blasted land video =) in it you'll see that they send you to go kill Alliance miners.
(civilians =O)

While you're at it, go check out Hillsbrad next to Tarren Mill, you can actually go check it out yourself right now!

[Cilraaz]

You mean a whole thread of Horde pointing out that both Alliance and Horde are morally gray and do questionable things

While Alliance try to defend the act by suggesting that Camp Taurajo was in the way of advancing troops or that even if they were civilians they would've attacked the invading forces

Because when Horde kills civilians, they are monsters that massacre innocents who were picking daisies and petting puppies.

But when Alliance do it it's practical, necessary, and just a sad fact of war.

Go-go Rationalization Train, full speed ahead!

This. 100%.

Was taking the camp good strategy in a war? Absolutely. Was killing innocent woman and children necessary? Absolutely not. Neither side is without their evils. Both sides also do good. This was a strategic move from an over-anxious (or perhaps racist or zealous) army.

i would agree but im still wondering what this reason behind the cluster fucking of CT is, ifs its pointless its damnable if there is a good point to it its necessary so be it.

It's a strategic position in the Barrens, at least. It's right next to the only way in to Mulgore (ignoring flight, as it was pointed out that armies move on the ground in Warcraft) and lies in an area that it could easily be used as a supply depot for further advancement.

[Buckwald]

You mean a whole thread of Horde pointing out that both Alliance and Horde are morally gray and do questionable things

While Alliance try to defend the act by suggesting that Camp Taurajo was in the way of advancing troops or that even if they were civilians they would've attacked the invading forces

Because when Horde kills civilians, they are monsters that massacre innocents who were picking daisies and petting puppies.

But when Alliance do it it's practical, necessary, and just a sad fact of war.

Go-go Rationalization Train, full speed ahead!

And the Horde uses the defense "Well, it was only because of demon blood!". So, let's say that this act and this part of Cataclysm where the Alliance slaughters women and children, but only because it was the Demonic influence of the Twilight's Hammer, can we use that defenese too?

I'm not saying I would condone this. And if the Alliance did do this just to progress the war, I would feel terrible and probably skip the quest line on my alts. Do you want to know who the "Good guys" are in a war? They are the ones who win.

[Tuvok]

Have you ever seen a baby tauren? I despair for the man who can cut one of them down. It's like torturing kittens, or killing baby pandas with flamethrowers.

[Albert the fish]

I know, all "evildoers" except the totally insane will use whatever opportunities they can get - I was just pointing out that that quest has a horde equivalent, horde kill the same grimtotems as well.


Don't ever confuse race with faction, not sure why you bring up race at all.

now you are arguing semantics to try to null my point, kindly stop it and refute the point made, not the words use.

[Phenomina]

Guys let's settle down a bit, fact is that the Horde players get sent to use a ritual totem or something like that to bless the dead. Turns out only 4 Tauren died in this massacre and probably because there fur got caught on fire when the Alliance started burning down villages.

Alliance kill 4 Tauren and become a faction of evil and filth.

Horde plague bomb Southshore, mega-bomb Stonetalon, try to eradicate the Worgen who were nuetral, Dancing Trolls start murdering and who can forget the numerous Night Elves killed in the sieging of Ashenvale.

Horde please quit crying about your 4 Tauren...

[maldias]

(insert random firebat quote)
although it looks like (the horde hero) gets most of the people to safety.

[Albert the fish]

Guys let's settle down a bit, fact is that the Horde players get sent to use a ritual totem or something like that to bless the dead. Turns out only 4 Tauren died in this massacre and probably because there fur got caught on fire when the Alliance started burning down villages.

Alliance kill 4 Tauren and become a faction of evil and filth.

Horde plague bomb Southshore, mega-bomb Stonetalon, try to eradicate the Worgen who were nuetral, Dancing Trolls start murdering and who can forget the numerous Night Elves killed in the sieging of Ashenvale.

Horde please quit crying about your 4 Tauren...

the horde preforms services for 4 tauren.doesn't mean only 4 tauren died

the entire village was slaughtered.

[Phenomina]

the horde preforms services for 4 tauren.doesn't mean only 4 tauren died

the entire village was slaughtered.

The other villagers and poor poor innocent children arn't good enough for this sacred Tauren service? You toss the word slaughter around to easily.

[jitzul]

Guys let's settle down a bit, fact is that the Horde players get sent to use a ritual totem or something like that to bless the dead. Turns out only 4 Tauren died in this massacre and probably because there fur got caught on fire when the Alliance started burning down villages.

Alliance kill 4 Tauren and become a faction of evil and filth.

Horde plague bomb Southshore, mega-bomb Stonetalon, try to eradicate the Worgen who were nuetral, Dancing Trolls start murdering and who can forget the numerous Night Elves killed in the sieging of Ashenvale.

Horde please quit crying about your 4 Tauren...

hahahahahaha pot calling the cattle balck
do you rember how many allies were crying abouth the stuff you just said and horde said cry more
and now the shoe is on the other foot. its war shit happens

[Blinke]

DOH, Grimtotem aren't part of the horde, they hate EVERYONE they are known for being xenophobic - they are hostile to horde as well.

That...wasn't my point.

My point was, that Tauren did something bad, and paid a price. Alliance did something bad, and will pay a price. If we all held hands and danced under the moon and smoked the peace pipe, what kind of game would that be? Not Warcraft I can tell ya that now.

[Noomz]

Both sides do good things and bad things? Perhaps.

But the races on the other hand... The Forsaken do not do good things. There is nothing good about them. And they're currently, together with the orcs, in conquest mode.

So far, I'd say the worst has been done by orcs and Forsaken. Taurujo is the first incident from the Alliance, and we have yet to see their side of it.

On another matter, I think I can deduce some of it from one of the quests shown.
As you can see, the Alliance have conscripts in their army taken from the Stockades. These might have been the people responsible for civilian deaths. An undisciplined army, or perhaps overzealous and vengeful. A lot of humans have a history with the Horde.

That...wasn't my point.

My point was, that Tauren did something bad, and paid a price. Alliance did something bad, and will pay a price. If we all held hands and danced under the moon and smoked the peace pipe, what kind of game would that be? Not Warcraft I can tell ya that now.

New Age-craft.