Advices about gear, talents, stats and specc

[Deleted]

Hello guys,

I need some advices of what I should improve in this character so I can start raiding (Healing ofc)!

First off, I done now tons of heroics and also some pvp, but before that I didn't play WoW almost since TBC, so I dont know the updates and that's why I'm doing this topic.

I don't know which is the best specc to heal nowadays: Discipline or Holy? Could you guys give me an example of how a Discipline and Holy tree should look like?

If I go dual specc, should I have both raiding healing speccs?

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About stats, what should I be looking for? Which is more important? Which gems or enchants I should put?

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About gear, I already have:

57k of honor
+200 emblems of triumph
20 emblems of frost
5k of gold

As you can see on the armory, all my gear is item lvl 200. So what should I buy to improve this gear? What should I buy throught the emblems, or throught the honor or even through gold (Buy tailoring cloths, etc).

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Thank you for the attention! I hope you guys help me!

[Ultima]

Okay, to start. We cannot see you armoury, I believe you can't post it as you only have one post. Please give me your name, server and EU or US.

Now, for your questions.

I don't know which is the best specc to heal nowadays: Discipline or Holy? Could you guys give me an example of how a Discipline and Holy tree should look like?

You will get mixed answers. I believe the general opinion is still that Holy wins, but you need (though need = want, with a 30% buff) a Discipline Priest (or two) for Lich King. Both having different healing styles.

I will be the first to admit that I am a little out of touch with the perfect raid spec. However, when I was raiding (and clearing/killing), this was the Holy spec I used.

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-ta...ladred&group=1

You need(ed) to change 'Glyph of Prayer of Mending' with 'Glyph of Renew', depending on the fight. I prefer longer ticking Renews on aura fights like Queen and Festergut. However, I want quick and strong Renews on fights like Saurfang, where the marks hit specific targets hard and for a short duration.

You don't need Lightwell, it was a personal preference for some fights, you can exchange it for another point in Blessed Resilience..or maybe Inner Focus if that fits, not sure.

Do not check my Discipline spec, that is a semi-PvP spec that I use, which also did the trick for healing Lich King.

If I go dual specc, should I have both raiding healing speccs?

You should get dual-spec, it's nice. Now, what you want to do with it depends on what's going on. If you want to raid-raid, then you need your primary spec, and what the guild needs as an off-spec. When I raided a long time ago, I had a Discipline spec as my main and the guild also had me as Shadow...because some of our DPS were very bad (I loved Shadow at the time, so I had no problem with it). When I changed into my super special awesome guild, they had me as Holy and Disc. Pure healer, nothing more, nothing less. Which was also very fine with me, because I had fallen in love with Holy again for the first time since early Ulduar and I wanted to do Arena.

About stats, what should I be looking for? Which is more important? Which gems or enchants I should put?

If Discipline appeals to you, read these: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...iscipline-(PVE)

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-Logs-(Absorbs)

For Holy, it's interesting. First off, make sure you have enough regen. This makes Spirit attractive to you, which is nice as our tier gear has loads on it. Because we have a 30% buff in Icecrown, your heals are 30% stronger, which allows a lot of end content Priests swap their Spell Power for Haste, so their spells hit as hard as they did months ago, but they do it quicker. Of course, they need to make sure their mana can take it.

Early on for Holy, try Spell Power + Intellect and Spell Power + Spirit gems. That's Luminous and Purified if memory serves. A few reasons, the gems are cheap and your gear will get replaced and the gems will be good for your regeneration. After awhile you will get a feel for how you are doing and can adjust your gemming from there.

As you can see on the armory, all my gear is item lvl 200. So what should I buy to improve this gear? What should I buy throught the emblems, or throught the honor or even through gold (Buy tailoring cloths, etc).

Keep the gold for dual-spec, gems and enchants. Do not buy 264/245/226 gear. I need to see your armoury, but if I had to guess, I will probably suggest getting full Tier 9m, the Intellect trinket etc.

With the honour, you can buy gems for 10k per gem. Now, "pure" gems (Red, Blue, Yellow) cost 20 Badges of Triumph, while all gems cost just 10k honour. It is best to spend honour on pure colour gems and badges on mixed (Purple, Orange, Green). I've not suggested you get any pure gems, but a just-so-you-know thing.

[Deleted]

Hello Ultima, thank you for the advices,

My char name is Fatherof of the realm The Maelstrom, but I'll send you a private mensage with the direct link.

Anyway, your holy specc seems to be nice, everything seems to be logic, except the Blessed Resillence, I would put the 2 points in somewhere else.

About the dual specc, I think you're right, probably have 1 healing specc and another dps specc would be better, since my objective is not do only raids, I also want to do other type of stuff.

I was thinking in buying, throught the emblems, the items lvl 245 (Head, Shoulders, Ring, Trinket) -> And there's the only things I can buy, since I'll waste all my emblems in this. But I don't know how important is the 2 set bonus, or even the 4 set bonus of t9.

Then I was thinking in buying the pvp back throught the honor. I will still have 5k of honor to spend in gems, for example.

And buy something craftable (I dont know yet, but the chest seams to be a good option) to fullfill some "empty space". I have loads of money, so I can pay the dual specc, pay a craftable gear, and still have money for gems and enchants.

[Ultima]

It's best to get four pieces of Tier 9. A 20% buff to your Prayer of Mending spell is great, you use it every time it's on CD. And increasing your Renew's initial hit by 10% is nice.

[Talisman of Resurgence] is great, it's a lot of mana and regen and gives a small Spell Power boost.

You can also get [Tears of the Vanquished] from Trial of the Champion 5 man Normal. I'm in love with [Spark of Hope] from Kologarn Ulduar10, but that's a bit out of the way I suppose. The ring for badges is okay (if it's the crit one that I am thinking of). If you want to use some PvP gear for a bit, try to get Alacrity pieces as Haste is groovy.

[Deleted]

Ok, then I should go 4 pieces of T9? Which is the piece that I should not choose?

The back that I was thinking on buying throught honor also has a lot of haste.. I think I'll go Holy for healing raiding specc, since I always raided as Holy and I don't play as healer since 1 year ago, I think it's better to don't risk and stick with the gameplay that I'm most used.

[Ultima]

That's a good question. If I throw my brain around the room, I think it's the helm. The Gloves and Legs are the best bits. Then again, you might want to not get the Shoulders so that you can get the Tier 10 Shoulders first (cheapest).

http://www.wowhead.com/itemset=848 - A link to the set for easy viewing.

[Verzerrung]

My 2 Sense:
Ultima covered a lot so I wont repeat, but here are a few variations: Healing is all about personal style and not raw stats.
Disc and Holy are both very good at what they do. You will just have to try both and see which play style is more fun to you.
......Holy.....
Stats: Your primary goal as a Holy priest is not going oom quickly. That being said, spirit is your primary focus. Spirit also gives you spell power which is another reason for it. Because you are focusing on the regeneration rate of your mana, your total mana pool is not as important.

Int: The int rout of mana regen as opposed to spirit is this. Instead of geming and focusing on spirit, you go for int. I HIGHLY recommend you do not go this route as it is highly dependent on other people and class you have with you and your distance from them. This means if you dont have replenishment in your raid or one of the other Int based mana returns a few of the classes have, you my friend are SOL. If EVERYTHING pans out and all int based regens are present you will be doing great and hard pressed to run oom. So unless you are in a guild who has all of the Int based regen available, this rout is VERY unreliable. In addition, Int only gives a small bonus to crit which crit in itself is not hat high of a priority for Holy.

Now, once you are at a point where you are comfortable with your mana pool, through whichever method you decide, and it is not hitting zero during longer than average fights it is time to focus on throughput.
This is all up to your personal situation so no one stat is our goal

If you feel your spells are not hitting hard enough and it is taking more than one flash or renew to heal a dps then you will want to pick up some more Spell Power

If you find the other raid healers are sniping your target befor you get your heals off or you would just like to be able to respond to situations faster, pick up more Haste.

If you would like to add a little variety and flavor to your healing, pick up crit(this does work slightly better if you went the IntRegen rout) I do not recomend crit as any sort of goal because its very nature implies inconsistency, and when your eyes and brain are darting left and right looking at 10-25 health bars the last thing you need is your priorities and planning being thrown out of line with heals not doing what you expected of them.

If you are finding that you are dieing fast you will want to gem for Stamina. that or get out of fire +tell the tank you cant believe a Holy priest pulled off him. Dont gem stam.

As far as Trinkets, its really what eve you can get your hands on. Howevver I would shy away from and sort of use trinket. Healing is 100% situational and there is not good time to pop a trinket except in rare occasions when you are luck enough to know ahead of time. Ones like Solace that resort mana and build up are very useful.

Spec: I flat out hate Ultima's spec but if it works for him thats good. I on the hand I do not plan on tanking, being attacked by adds, or standing in fire for very long.
Here is mein: http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?c=Priest
With Ultimas spec IMO there are a lot of waisted points. Things such as Healing Focus, Spell warding, Desperate Prayer, and Blessed Resil are all well and good for PvP survival buit really do little when it comes to Healing a raid. Yes those talents may keep the damage off you a little bit but you are not brought to a raid to keep only you up. Those talents do nothing to keep up the other 9-24 people. Lightwell and Body and soul are nice, but picking them both up is just sacrificing way to many points of healing throughput in other areas that are used far more often. Fopr example: his 2 points in Blessed Resil give only 2% increased healing to all heals. But if he had put those 2 into Empowered Healing he would have gained 16% increase to Flash and 8% to binding(which also acts as an even better Desperate Prayer).

Glyphs:
1.Pick up circle of healing
2.Get either Renew or Flash glyphs depending on which spell you use more. Or if you are like me and like using both in in their own ways get both
3. If you did not get Renew And Flash you will have one extra spot. This can be filled with either Prayer of Healing or Guardian spirit. I would suggest PoH since you will get a lot more millage out of it.


As far as Tier sets like Ultima said, 4set T9 is a must. I would suggest getting the non set 75 emblem head as it is the biggest upgrade to its T9 set version.

Never plan for something you hope will be there are is not always going to be around. Plan for what you your self have control over. You will be a much more stable raid member.

[Deleted]

Fryr, are you serious about 2/3 Blessed Resilience is waste of points while you recommend 2/3 Improved Healing? :<

Neither of the talents are gamebreaking for a priest however Improved Healing doesn't really do anything for a priest nowadays (gone are the days with stopcasting Greater Heals!) while Blessed Resilience actually affects every bit of healing we do - and that inclues our bread and butter spells such as PoM, CoH.

[Verzerrung]

Yes I am serious

[Xorz]

Spec: I flat out hate Ultima's spec but if it works for him thats good. I on the hand I do not plan on tanking, being attacked by adds, or standing in fire for very long.
Here is mein: http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?c=Priest
With Ultimas spec IMO there are a lot of waisted points. Things such as Healing Focus, Spell warding, Desperate Prayer, and Blessed Resil are all well and good for PvP survival buit really do little when it comes to Healing a raid. Yes those talents may keep the damage off you a little bit but you are not brought to a raid to keep only you up. Those talents do nothing to keep up the other 9-24 people. Lightwell and Body and soul are nice, but picking them both up is just sacrificing way to many points of healing throughput in other areas that are used far more often. Fopr example: his 2 points in Blessed Resil give only 2% increased healing to all heals. But if he had put those 2 into Empowered Healing he would have gained 16% increase to Flash and 8% to binding(which also acts as an even better Desperate Prayer).

So you'd rather spend 12 talent points on a completely useless spell for raid healing (Greater Heal)?
Healing Focus, Spell warding, Desperate Prayer, and Blessed Resilience have nothing to do with "tanking" mobs or standing in fire, you will get hit in ICC no matter what and those talents can really help.

[Harmacy]

Are you really finding that Flash Heal is a bigger chunk of your healing than Renew, CoH, or ProM?

Given the nature of the damage in ICC (it's mostly periodic damage, not as bursty as previous raids), your AoE heals and Renew take on a greater importance. Buffing them is crucial to your success, and that's why Blessed Resilience is currently much better than Empowered Healing.

[Verzerrung]

Yes because I dont waist my mana and renew more times than not does not cut it

[Harmacy]

With all due respect, according to your armory you're 6/12 in ICC 10 Normal.

I don't think you're qualified to speak to what works on fights like Sindragosa or LK having never been there. Renew is your main "filler" heal in ICC, not Flash Heal. That's because there are so many periodic damage fights, like Blood Queen and Sindragosa et al.

Since I'm going to be called a hypocrite if I don't post my armory, have at it: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...sh&cn=Ihastail

I'm no hardcore raider, but I have at least cleared the bosses and know what heals to use.

There is a lot of variety in Holy specs, but there is one thing they all have in common - they spend the full 6 points buffing Renew, and take Blessed Resilience over Empowered Healing.

[Ultima]

Fryr, your heresy awakes me from my slumber. (Or, my iPhone browsing requires me to get to the computer to reply to this)

Okay, for actual discussion time. You are the one wasting points, seriously.

Let's go over your spec:


Waste #1: Divine Fury - Do you cast Greater Heal often? Why? Maybe if you need to do some odd tank healing in 10 man, but as pointed out above (I've not checked this), you only have 6 bosses down. With a 30% buff, I think Flash Heal, ProM and Renew should suffice if a healer needs some help.

Waste #2: Improved Healing - Really? You will cast Divine Hymn once a fight, not worth a mana reduction. You don't cast any of the other spells in this expansion.

Waste #3: We have good mana, you shouldn't need both points in Healing Prayers, but fair play if you need it.

Now, to defend myself.

With Ultimas spec IMO there are a lot of waisted points. Things such as Healing Focus, Spell warding, Desperate Prayer, and Blessed Resil are all well and good for PvP survival buit really do little when it comes to Healing a raid. Yes those talents may keep the damage off you a little bit but you are not brought to a raid to keep only you up. Those talents do nothing to keep up the other 9-24 people. Lightwell and Body and soul are nice, but picking them both up is just sacrificing way to many points of healing throughput in other areas that are used far more often. Fopr example: his 2 points in Blessed Resil give only 2% increased healing to all heals. But if he had put those 2 into Empowered Healing he would have gained 16% increase to Flash and 8% to binding(which also acts as an even better Desperate Prayer).

Healing Focus is mandatory. You will take damage, it cannot be avoided. Concentration Aura does not give you 100% pushback resistance. You will be damaged (nearly) constantly during Festergut and Queen, and a lot in other fights (Marrowgar Bonestorm, Thingy's Frostbolts, Gunships random fire, Saurfangs blood boil, Rotface's spit, Professor's aura in P3, Valithra's adds random AoE, Sindragosa - thingy random arcane thing. I've not raided for over 4 months, sorry I can't be as specific as I usually like to think I am).

Because we don't need Divine Fury, we need to spend the points to get to the next tier. We are left with Spell Warding. Less damage done to you means less healing required on you. Desperate Prayers is a lovely spell, you can quickly heal yourself and then forget about yourself and continue healing others. You will take damage.

Yes, Blessed Resilience increases me overall healing by 2%. That is a lot, if you don't think so, why do you use epic gems over rare? Blessed Resilience effects Renew, Circle of Healing and Prayer of Healing. Empowered Healing does not doing anything in comparison. Do you really cast Flash Heal that often? I don't know about you but I only use it when Surge of Light has procced and I don't think the target (patient, if you will) will survive long enough for Renew to do its magic. This also leads me to question your Glyph of Flash Heal, bit of a waste.

Hopefully this was of help to Assequins and Fryr.

[Verzerrung]

In the spirit of taking your ideas into consideration I tried your renew spec...
The damage reduction was negligible
Renew never ever kept someones health up.
PoH was way to slow
Serendipity was always falling off because I didn't use flash enough
I found the whole play style limiting, slow and absolutly now control over the situation.

My Healing:
I do use Greater heal, far more than I would like but then that is the company you keep with pugs and doing other things out side of one raid.
I do use Flash as my goto spell for spot healing
I use PoH when more than 2 people in a group need healed more than 10%

Renew is by no means a way of refilling someones health while they are taking damage, aoe or otherwise.
Just compare the numbers. It costs more than Flash. It heals less than Flash. And with just a little bit of haste both share the same reaction time; Renew instant cast+ a 1-1.5 gcd; Flash 1-1.5 cast. Flash refills them instantly and for more while renew rides the short bus to keep their health at one spot if that. Following a strictly renew, CoH, PoH method is gross inefficiency and incapable of the same lvl of control you would get if you were using flash instead of renew. I am not saying any of these heals are a bad thing. they all have their uses that all come together to make this class the most versatile healing class out there. All i am saying is when it comes to speed and efficiency Flash kicks Renews ass. Not to mention you will almost always have Serendipity at 3 stacks which makes casting PoH take less time. Renew is a spell intended to smooth out incoming damage on targets taking a lot of it, weather it be a tank or dps who cant control their aggro.

As for desperate Prayer: if you want it take it but then again that was the point of Binding Heal.
As for Healing focus over Improved Healing. I can see that and might just switch them around while the mana regen is through the roof.

Resil I still dont buy into. Say your PoH heals one person for 2600. An increase of 3% would be only 2678. 78 health is nothing. Thats like a lvl 1 mage. Now say your Flash heals for 2400. An increase of 12%(going point for point with resil) would make the heal out to be 2688. Add on to that Empowered Healing can go 8% even more. So I ask you. Is 78 health on a spell you use situationally really greater than 288 on a spell you use all the time?

Just because current gear and 30% buffs make mana pools and healing way over what they are intended to be does not mean you should get careless with your efficiency of heals. Healing has not always been like this and this is not how it is going to be in a few months. Not being smart about your mana is going to bite you in the ass.

[Harmacy]

Desperate Prayer is instant, and off the GCD. Binding Heal is great, but Desperate Prayer fills a niche that it cannot.

Speed and efficiency, Flash Heal cannot compare to Renew. Again, look at the incoming damage - it's almost entirely periodic, not burst. Combating periodic damage with Flash Heal instead of Renew is like trying to fit a square block into a round hole. It makes no sense, why use an inferior tool for the job when you have the correct one available? Periodic healing for periodic damage - that's why Druids are so powerful in ICC, and that's why Holy has a newfound reliance on Renew.

Your assumptions about Empowered Healing would be correct if Flash Heal was a core heal anymore. It is occasionally useful on its own, but it mostly used only on Surge of Light procs. 1% increase to all healing done >>> 4% increase to a spell you don't use a lot

And for your final "argument", mana is a total non-issue if you're in ICC gear. Properly gemmed and enchanted ICC gear. The only possible way to go OOM in endgame raiding is to spam nothing but PoH, which of course is always retarded.

And out of curiosity, what content did you "try out" a Renew spec in? Because according to your stalker sheet, you did the first four bosses in ICC 10 normal and then Toravon 25. Not exactly grueling or difficult. Maybe if you were working on Blood Queen or Sindragosa or even Putricide you would understand better.

[Verzerrung]

Show me the healing numbers and speed for Renew and Flash heal. None of you have so here they are:

Renew
Total Heal: 2570.365
Cost: 656
Duration: 9sec
Mana per health: 1:3.91
Health per second: 285.59

Flash Heal
Total Heal: 2713.76
Cost: 625
Cast Time: 1.3
Mana per health: 1:4.3
Health per second: 2087.5

As you can see:
Flash Heals for more
Flash costs less
Flash has higher Health per second
Renew is inferior in every way.

The renew numbers were given the Blessed Resil 3% boost, adding in the Empowered renew 15%, and reduction of duration by 3sec from glyph.
Flash Heal was don't with 3/5 of Empowered Healing 12%, and mana reduction of 10% from glyph.
Both calculated of base spell numbers found in spellbook.
I did not calculate in each spells coefficient but here is a link to elitist showing them http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t19038-spell_coefficients/
And oh look renew gets less than half the benefit from SP that Flash does. So the higher your spell power the more Flash kicks renews but.


In the end it doesn't matter what fights in a single raid I have seen or not. The Spells you use and their utility are a constant. I have never tried anchovies either. Doesn't mean I don't know how fish tastes. It does not matter how much damage a fight is doing. You can cover the same amount of people in the same amount of time with either spell but Flash Heal has always and will always be more efficient and faster. Why slow down your healing. Heal the person quickly efficiently and move on. After that if Flash heal is still not enough use both.

[Harmacy]

Flash Heal may do more total healing, I am too lazy to run the numbers. But Renew is PERIODIC healing. P E R I O D I C. Say it with me. It heals over time.

If your raid is taking damage over time, Renew will do significantly more effective healing than Flash Heal. This is basic common sense, and frankly I'm saddened that I even have to explain it to you.

edit: and you also didn't take into account the 15% up-front from the Empowered Renew talent, which is a decent instant-heal in and of itself

And once again. PERIODIC. Damage over time. Heal... over time. Come on, this is not hard.

[Verzerrung]

edit: and you also didn't take into account the 15% up-front from the Empowered Renew talent, which is a decent instant-heal in and of itself

mmm...yes I did, and frankly I'm saddened that I even had to say it to you.

HOLY CRAP A MAGIC NUMBER
Periodic: sporadic, intermittent, occasional, fitful.
As in SLOW S L O W. Say it with me. It does small amounts of damage over time. In other words the bottom of the priority list.

Alright lets follow the numbers above for this. If someone is taking 1000 damage per second(PERIODIC) and your renew is ticking 285.59 per second. That is 714.41 damage renew can not cover. So even with renew that person is now taking 714.41 damage per second.
On the other hand if someone is taking 1000 damage per second and your Flash heals for 2713. Once they have taken 1000 damage caste Flash and by the time it finishes they will have taken another 1000. Alright stay with me here this is where it gets tricky. The person is 2000 health down and whats this He just got healed for 2713 and it cost less than renew and actually took the persons health in a POSITIVE direction. Now he is at 100% health!

Lets check back with the renew guy. Its been 2 seconds. He has taken 2000 damage and was healed...oh wait, there
still another second before the first tick so lets speed forward.
>>>>>>>Its been 3 seconds. He has taken 3000 damage and was healed for 856.77(285.59x3) so the person is now 2143.23 health down. Well what now? I guess you STILL have to use your Flash. But this is a Renew build so it only heals for 2400 and now it actually cost more than renew. Bummer...

[Harmacy]

Periodic: sporadic, intermittent, occasional, fitful.
As in SLOW S L O W. Say it with me. It does small amounts of damage over time. In other words the bottom of the priority list.

Truly spoken like somebody who has never healed Blood Queen or Sindragosa (especially Heroic modes). I defy you to heal either of those fights and then tell me the periodic damage can be safely ignored.

Renew allows you to keep HoTs rolling on many targets at once, meaning you are healing up the damage as it is dealt. Rather than waiting for someone to dip low enough for Flash Heal to do something, you are being proactive about the situation. This is much more effective for obvious reasons.

I'm not saying you're a bad player. Just very mistaken, and very inexperienced. Please, please stop giving healing advice when you have no healing experience past a few joke bosses. It's not only misleading, but also just sad.