Revamped Twisted Faith

[Thrayne]

•Twisted Faith is now a Tier 2 (Down from Tier 5) 2-Ranks (Down from 3 Ranks) Talent. Revamped - Increases your chance to hit with shadow spells by 1/2%, and grants you spell hit rating equal to 50/100% of any Spirit gained from items or effects.


So they gave us alot of innate hit via talents back, then 1005 Spirit ---> Hit? I was hoping for something for more Shadow ---> Healing flexibility but I think this has gone above and beyond. This give is two BiS lists to choose from and I think it is going to really be advantagious while gearing (especially fresh 85s).

I know this has been the heated topic of some debate, but I'm glad with this change and I was curious to hear some reactions to this change.

[Izenhart]

Two BiS lists?

I'd rather call it more loot to leech!


Gear-Wise, they're making the SPriest just like any other HPriest or DPriest, crit/haste/int/spirit, screw the hit.

[Kelesti]

Which would be fine if hit gear was useless, or at least sub-par, Izenhart. It's not. Shadow can now go ahead and have free reign over any cloth drops when no other spec has 100% of itemisation.

Frak. This. Noise.

Oh, and inb4 Mages and Warlocks get Spirit:Hit as a passive, to make itemisation "simpler"

[Xelaeno]

It is to my understanding that Spirit -> Hit conversion talent will only be available to hybrid classes no? Otherwise, how does Blizz justify having hit on items at all? All casters will just be stacking spirit or something else, hit will be trivial and might as well be considered a waste of stats on items.

[Radux]

I'm still not necessarily convinced of 2 things:

A. I'm not sure this will stick. I definitely think it's a nice thing for Healers wanting to offspec Shadow or whatever.
B. I dunno if a ton of Shadow priests will want spirit gear unless they have to. I get that it's a full conversion and whatever, but realistically (unless you really need the hit) it's just wasted itemization.

/shrug

[fabian]

I'm still not necessarily convinced of 2 things:

A. I'm not sure this will stick. I definitely think it's a nice thing for Healers wanting to offspec Shadow or whatever.
B. I dunno if a ton of Shadow priests will want spirit gear unless they have to. I get that it's a full conversion and whatever, but realistically (unless you really need the hit) it's just wasted itemization.

/shrug

Hit and Spirit will have(or do they currently?) the same itemization points, and each will take away the spot of a green stat, so for a shadow priest, there is no difference between spirit gear and hit gear. If anything, spirit gear might be more useful if it has no hit gems in it, since they could use one set for both healing and dps.

[Abandon]

Which would be fine if hit gear was useless, or at least sub-par, Izenhart. It's not. Shadow can now go ahead and have free reign over any cloth drops when no other spec has 100% of itemisation.

Frak. This. Noise.

Oh, and inb4 Mages and Warlocks get Spirit:Hit as a passive, to make itemisation "simpler"

I'm fairly sure that any Guild which has any sense will give Spirit gear to Healing Priests first and Hit gear to Shadow Priests, since Healing Priests won't have a choice to pick up all cloth gear. Main spec > Off spec rules

[Thrayne]

Well with this spirit gear = hit gear for spriests.

Kelesti, I'm not so sure why you think it is "Free Reign" it only covers 2 specs of it's OWN Class. It's not like it's stepping on anyones toes, the only spirit gear will be for priests so it's just homogenizing gear for the class.

I can understand your point to some degree, it is a slippery slope passing out conversions like this, who is to say where it ends?

[Abandon]

That's true, every class which has a spec which actually uses Spirit is now covered, apart from Paladins who don't have a Caster DPS tree and so have no need for it.

[fabian]

That's true, every class which has a spec which actually uses Spirit is now covered, apart from Paladins who don't have a Caster DPS tree and so have no need for it.

Holy paladins have a spi -> hit conversion in Enlightened Judgments, unless that was changed recently.

[Bullettime]

Not a bad change considering cloth spirit gear was only going to be used by healing priests otherwise. Without allowing shadow to benefit from spirit as well, they would just have cloth healing itemized like holy paladins have which is a complete waste of a drop. Also, I'm fairly sure after a little while, heal priests will be tryin to grab a bit of dps gear as well for the output bonuses when they get enough regen like they do now so it evens out the scales.

Basically in a guild environment, spirit gear will almost certainly go to healers before spriests. Pug rolls have never meant shit regardless where it's every man for themself. Doubt this will impact heal priests negatively if they're in a serious raiding guild who min/maxes their roster over 1 guy's leet deeps.

Shadow priests would have to compete with 2 other classes while heal priests only compete with other priests (sometimes.) Blizzard even stated before when they came up with the conversion that it's a perk to being a spriest.

[Blackmorgrim]

The real deciding factor here will be if glyph of shadow remains unchanged into cataclysm. If the glyph stays exactly the same, spirit's worth as a stat will jump to nearly the same worth as haste, if not spellpower itself.

[Thrayne]

The real deciding factor here will be if glyph of shadow remains unchanged into cataclysm. If the glyph stays exactly the same, spirit's worth as a stat will jump to nearly the same worth as haste, if not spellpower itself.

While a very good insight, they have pretty much said most glyphs are being overhauled to reflect major changes in class mechanics, stats and talents. So I doubt they would let something like that glyph go live.


Also going into cata isn't haste>SP anyway? On live it is only slightly less than SP but with all DoTs being effected with MF being unable to be reduced to a second, I can only see it vastly outweighing SP (With enough SP passive)

[Ananan]

I'm just worried that they put it in tier 2. Okay, that is within reach for a healer priest who wants to hit the raid boss with those sweet smites, but with a heavy investment in talent points. Of course, now that Veiled Shadows is in tier 1, it doesn't take that much more to make the situation better for healers who want to subspec into shadow, but the first tiers of holy are just too good for disc atm, and the first tiers of disc are quite nice for holy as well. I don't quite see it happening.

[Abandon]

At least there's something attractive for Healers to pick up at all in Shadow now, currently on Live there is no reason anyone would put any points in the tree if they are Healing.

[Kelesti]

At least there's something attractive for Healers to pick up at all in Shadow now, currently on Live there is no reason anyone would put any points in the tree if they are Healing.

Veiled Shadows is waiting for 4.0 to say "hi".

And to everyone else, my point is Shadow can now cerrypick itemisation. "Oh, no cloth hit belt has the haste I want, but the spirit one does! And I can't wear the spirit cloak, when the hit one has so much mastery"
Spirit and Hit going together may make sense, but nothing's stopping Shadow from doing whatever they want across cloth drops.

There was another class that could do this, and did so consistently. Warriors. They were balanced around "this gear" (plate) but good ones took leather. Every level of content, they had to be nerfed because they were using itemistion higher than what they were planne to scale with.

It's in every Shadow Priest's best interest to seek out the best itemisation. It's in th spec's best interest that this can't happen, and either Spirit or Hit (on cloth) is devalued in some way. Be able to use either, but have it readily defined what is/isn't yours.

[Thrayne]

I'm just worried that they put it in tier 2. Okay, that is within reach for a healer priest who wants to hit the raid boss with those sweet smites, but with a heavy investment in talent points. Of course, now that Veiled Shadows is in tier 1, it doesn't take that much more to make the situation better for healers who want to subspec into shadow, but the first tiers of holy are just too good for disc atm, and the first tiers of disc are quite nice for holy as well. I don't quite see it happening.

This is to allow flexibility of gearing between specs, not to promote a Holy/shadow or disc/shadow spec with hit rating. I haven't looked over alot of theoretical builds for disc and holy yet but I can definately see veiled shadows being picked if mana become a big enough problem.

[fabian]

Before this change, 7 specs wanted hit(3 different classes) and 2 wanted spi(1 class). After the change, 6 specs want hit(2 classes) and 3 specs want Spi(1 class). Maybe it was to give a better incentive to make cloth spi items?

[Kelesti]

After the change, 7 specs want hit(3 classes) and 3 specs want Spi(1 class).

I fixed that for you. Shadow still will want hit items "if they are better" than the Spirit equivalent. This isn't really better incentive, other than saying "F*** you healers, F*** you mages, I can take gear from you both!"

[Deleted]

I fixed that for you. Shadow still will want hit items "if they are better" than the Spirit equivalent. This isn't really better incentive, other than saying "F*** you healers, F*** you mages, I can take gear from you both!"

There will still be item priority, as it is now. Seeing any Druids, Paladins with cloth geear lately? Yes, they do exist. The guild enviroment is going to be a matter of prioirty in dividing the gear, and that goes for Shadow Priest as well needing on spirit, they will come second to a healing priest.

But I understand where you're coming from. It does give pure shadow priests a gear advantage in the short run, in the absence of a healing Priests, or Warlock/Mage.


Is there a programming possibility to make Twisted Faith actually twist your faith to relieve you from benefiting from hit?

Maybe this:


*New* Twisted Faith: Increases your chance to hit with shadow spells by 1/2%, and grants you spell hit rating equal to 50/100% of any Spirit gained from items or effects. Also, you no longer benefit from hit rating due to your twisted belief in the power of shadow.


Thoughts?