so new druid frenzied regen and surv instincts

[omgooses]

So i was looking at the new talents just posted in teh new build.

survival instincts as a 60% shield wall

frenzied regeneration as a 30% maximum health.

first question:

Is that a building health increase from frenzied regeneration over time? or is it instant health increase?

and are they really saying that with barkskin bears will have 80% dmg reduction?

that

is


AMAZING

[meteo]

I guess it will be 68% dmg reduction when you stack it

[gollie]

From what I interpreted the text: The current SI and Frenzied Regen will be merged into Frenzied. You'll gain 30% hp, be healed those 30% and for the next 20 sec convert 10 rage into 3% of your max health. (per tick. Another 30%?)

I love the changes but the 5 min cooldown on SI is going to scare me quite a bit in the beginning. But I guess it's fine since Frenzied is very rarely used today, atleast by me.

These cooldowns have never been so powerful.

[rated]

From what I interpreted the text: The current SI and Frenzied Regen will be merged into Frenzied. You'll gain 30% hp, be healed those 30% and for the next 20 sec convert 10 rage into 3% of your max health. (per tick. Another 30%?)

I love the changes but the 5 min cooldown on SI is going to scare me quite a bit in the beginning. But I guess it's fine since Frenzied is very rarely used today, atleast by me.

These cooldowns have never been so powerful.

I use frenzied regeneration quite often. Its even something I glyph for...

I like these changes though. FR just got a lot better and now i'll have barnskin & survival instinct for damage reduction.

[dinokaze]

While my motto for the entire beta experience has been to tell people "Change happens, it's normally a good thing" and "This isn't final, it's still beta and in the testing phase." This is a time where I really really REALLY don't like the changes. When I first read the chanegs to FR and SI, I was a little frightened that I might not play my druid anymore. I don't want to be a warrior and have identical cooldowns as they do. Why were we given shield wall? Why couldn't we just have our cooldowns that are different and awesome and useful, why we need to be homogenized? I would much rather keep my current FR (converts rage into health and increasing all healing done to me (emphasis on the second part) and SI (increases max health by 30% (45% with glyph)). I like these abilities and I like the way they work. Sigh.

FR just got a lot better

It didn't get a lot better. We lose the "Increases all healing done to yu by 30%"

[rated]

While my motto for the entire beta experience has been to tell people "Change happens, it's normally a good thing" and "This isn't final, it's still beta and in the testing phase." This is a time where I really really REALLY don't like the changes. When I first read the chanegs to FR and SI, I was a little frightened that I might not play my druid anymore. I don't want to be a warrior and have identical cooldowns as they do. Why were we given shield wall? Why couldn't we just have our cooldowns that are different and awesome and useful, why we need to be homogenized? I would much rather keep my current FR (converts rage into health and increasing all healing done to me (emphasis on the second part) and SI (increases max health by 30% (45% with glyph)). I like these abilities and I like the way they work. Sigh.


It didn't get a lot better. We lose the "Increases all healing done to yu by 30%"

By 30% do you mean 20% from the glyph ? Dude you got me confused.

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=22842/f...ation#comments

Frenzied Regeneration
Instant 3 min cooldown
Requires Bear Form, Dire Bear Form
Converts up to 10 rage per second into health for 10 sec. Each point of rage is converted into 0.3% of max health.

and the cata one

Frenzied Regeneration now Increases maximum health by 30%, increases health to 30% (if below that value), and converts up to 10 rage per second into health for 20 sec. Each point of rage is converted into 3% of max health.

I dont know where this 30% increased healing comes from unless you mean the 20% from glyph.

[bavarcarus]

cliff notes: awesome abilities get better.

[huth]

Tooltip of the new FR is bugged though. It's still 0.3% max health per point of rage.

(3% per point would be rather ridiculous... 30% max health per second?)

[Deleted]

/cheer

Note also glyphs haven't been released yet and talents haven't been finalised so we may see the cooldown reduced of SI. Just like Shadow Priests get -2 minutes off Shadowfiend making it 3 min cd rather than 5 min.

Maybe too, and hopefully, they'll change that glyph of barkskin!

[kaloryth]

Now bear druids really are just a copy of warriors with different ability names.

...

Well that's no 100% true, but it does make it seem that way. : /

[luvlist]

he didnt say 30% frenzied.He said 30% SI and 45% with glyph

---------- Post added 2010-08-14 at 09:45 PM ----------

and i agree that druid tank looks much like warrior tank same thunderclap system with bleed... similar cooldowns... it sucks

[littlepiggy]

I'm confused as to how 1 move, that makes us even better, makes us clones of Warriors. I must have missed us getting bear reflection, intervene, vigilance, ranged silence, intercept, face block, etc...

IF other tanks don't get changes to their cool-downs and neither do we, we'll once again have THE best survival cool-downs hands down.

[Scunosi]

[/COLOR]and i agree that druid tank looks much like warrior tank same thunderclap system with bleed... similar cooldowns... it sucks

I know it sucks to be a copy-class, but that's essentially what the Druid class does best-taking other classes abilities and adding a little Druidic flair to them. Honestly I think currently Bear tanking is nigh-on horrible, with a sever lack of buttons that leads to difficult pulls in low end gear, or just sleeping through instances in high end gear. Seriously, my action bar is full only in Cat form as a Druid, and I'm not even Feral most of the time. It'll be sad to lose some uniqueness, but I won't mind so much if it means tanking will be less of a pain.

[exochaft]

Well, for starters, let's expand on everything, even though this started with just FR/SI

Feral

* Frenzied Regeneration now Increases maximum health by 30%, increases health to 30% (if below that value), and converts up to 10 rage per second into health for 20 sec. Each point of rage is converted into 3% of max health.
* Bash no longer interrupts spellcasting for 3 sec.
* Enrage now increases physical damage taken by 10% instead of reducing base armor.
* Survival Instincts now Reduces all damage taken by 60% for 12 sec. Only useable while in Bear Form or Cat Form. Instant, 5 min cooldown
* Heart of the Wild now increases your maximum mana by 5/10/15% instead of increasing your Intellect by 2/4/6%.

Concerning WotLK FR and SI being combined, I'm sure there's a large crowd where the cooldowns were used in conjuction, because blowing both together increased the regen power of FR (we're basically not needing to macro the two abilities together anymore, just happens at the same time). At very rare intervals, I'd use them seperately, but I doubt I'll complain too much about it. As soon as glyph information comes out, we'll see what Blizz has in store.

The change to SI is actually something pretty decent and much better than the former SI. We're concerned about the old +45% (glyphed) HP and 60% DR: larger HP is sexy, but I'd still prefer DR over it. If we're concerned about burst damage, DR has the advantage because the heals you receive are relatively more powerful in the ability to respond to the damage. More simply put, the trouble I've run into with the current for of HP-increasing SI is that the healers still have to pump in the same amount of heals else SI runs out and leaves you at 1 HP. The change to FR and SI in Cataclysm actually makes healing directly (for FR) and indirectly (for SI) more powerful when you blow either cooldown, and that's pretty sexy in my book.

Well, we all saw the Bash change coming with the introduction of Skull Bash and the already-released change to Maim not interrupting spells. Not really going to comment on this one.

*edit* Enrage discussion undergoing modification, made as a separate post.

The change to Heart of the Wild is a little less clear to me, maybe since I haven't played around with moonkin/resto specs too much, but I'll give it a shot. Since intellect will be providing spell power in Cataclysm, perhaps the talent seemed slightly too powerful compared to MSS. Blizz did state that they're probably going to change MSS to have caster form increased int (basically for resto druids since most of the time they wouldn't be in ToL form), and the 4 point investment seems weak compared to tossing a point into Heart of the Wild for SP gains (especially for moonkins). This starts leading into throughput and longevity discussions, since the HotW would increase longevity instead of throughput power. Again, this is mostly speculation on my part, but the change to HotW doesn't seem to be changed for feral reasons.

[Deleted]

Nice post exochaft I was about to post a new thread about the changes blizz just made (yep, beta) and then I saw this thread.

I like the new fenrized regeneration (FR and SI in one) and the new survival instincts is similar to the warrior ability (shield wall) but hell, we've always been somewhat warrior type.

About the bash change, I guess skull bash will take over the interrupt duty for us. Maybe a slighty pvp bear nerf, but I doubt ppl will flame about that tbh.

The enrage change seems like a nerf, but I'm too lazy to do the math.

Heart of the wild... Well..

[Neichus]

IF other tanks don't get changes to their cool-downs and neither do we, we'll once again have THE best survival cool-downs hands down.

Well, right now I think Druids are about equal with Warriors in the beta. Druids get the new Frenzied Regeneration, Barkskin, and Survival Instincts. Warriors have Enraged Regeneration/Last Stand, Shield Block, and Shield Wall.

-The Druid Frenzied Regen is hands-down better than the combination of Enraged Regeneration/Last Stand, although lacks the flexibility of having the two abilities being used apart. Unless the cooldown is changed (and ignoring glyphs) all abilities have a 3 minute cooldown.
-Barkskin is 20% reduction on a 1 minute cooldown while Shield Block is a 30% physical damage reduction on a 30 second cooldown; combined with the Warrior Critical Block and Heavy Repercussions it's worth significantly more than just that. So while on magic-heavy fights Barkskin comes out ahead it seems like Shield Block will all around be a superior ability under most situations.
-Survival Instincts is a 60% reduction, 5 minute CD; Shield Wall is a 40% reduction, 2 minute CD (via talents). While we don't know what the raiding environment will be like in Cataclysm, at least in WotLK the shorter cooldown version is superior under most circumstances.

So unless I'm missing a Druid cooldown (which I might be, my Druid is 72 and languishes in Borean Tundra) it seems to me like Druids aren't particularly far ahead of Warriors.

[Richmond]

Good changes except for the 5 minute cooldown on Survival Instincts... That could be glyphable to reduce the time and Frenzied Regen required a glyph to increase healing done to you.

[iceberg265]

With this change..FR is like, better than Argent Defender...

[exochaft]

The enrage change seems like a nerf, but I'm too lazy to do the math.

Alright, just finished doing a bit of math.

Enrage is an interesting change, and if I'm not mistaken, going to 10% more damage from 16% base armor reduction (for Dire Bear Form) actually has us taking less damage than currently on live w/o 4-piece T10 (with around 70% DR on live, I believe the damage increase from the lost armor DR is a bit over 12%). Well basically, with our current model, the more armor we have, the harder the penality hurts us after a certain point due to the nature of armor scaling.

Of course, base armor could change in Cataclysm or the model for DR% calculations could change as well, but I think this change falls more under the realm of Enrage's penalty has a larger impact as we gear up based on armor. After a certain point, the pentalty of Enrage @ 16% base armor reduction is actually worse than 10% more melee damage taken... if the current armor DR model remains for lvl 87 boss mobs in Cataclysm, at armor cap, 16% less armor yield approximately 13.6% damage increase. 10% more melee damage means it'll scale rather predictably at all levels and gear (instead of the current armor model providing a sweet spot where armor below a certain amount yields <10% damage increase and armor above a certain amount yields >10% damage increase). Making the penalty 10% increase also eliminates the penalty needing adjustment every time the armor model could potentially scale. Not going to speculate on glyphs for it yet, since that info is around the corner (alright, alright, the glyph would probably be a major one if it existed, but I'm secretly hoping there isn't one if the talent trees for feral doesn't change much).

[Legendary_Zer0]

Now bear druids really are just a copy of warriors with different ability names.

...

Well that's no 100% true, but it does make it seem that way. : /

lets compare
Prot Warrior, Feral Tank
Devastate, Lacerate?
Shield Slam, ...
TClap, Swipe/Thrash
Revenge, ...
Heroic Strike, Maul
..., Mangle
Charge, Feral Charge
Concussive Blow, Bash
Enraged Regen, Frenzied Regen
Shield Wall, Survival Instincts
Shield Block, ...
..., Barkskin
Blood Rage, Enrage

if i missed something lemme know but i do see quite a difference in the spells.