Enhance 12759 Changes

[Radux]

No, I get that Shaman changes are lackluster or whatever. I was asking you what specific class/spec changes have been implemented that are PvP centric.

[sicness]

im not trying to be mean but...have we been looking at the same talent trees as the beta has progressed?

not to mention the pvp oriented skills, enhancement actually gets pvE oriented skills (unleashed weapon, a early version of stormstrike, the rest is geared more towards elemental/resto) i might be able to give you spirit walkers, but its less effective for enhancement compared to elemental and resto either way.

The only class that has had any real significant pvp changes is paladins, but that's because they're being completely redesigned. No other class has had anything different that really stands out except for maybe mage mobility.

[bateman]

The only class that has had any real significant pvp changes is paladins, but that's because they're being completely redesigned. No other class has had anything different that really stands out except for maybe mage mobility.

Except those other classes haven't been almost exactly the same since vanilla like shamans, and especially enhance(if you include endless nerfs I guess you can say they "changed"), have.

[sicness]

Except those other classes haven't been almost exactly the same since vanilla like shamans, and especially enhance(if you include endless nerfs I guess you can say they "changed"), have.

Enhance wasn't significantly changed in BC?

[bateman]

Enhance wasn't significantly changed in BC?

I assume you mean the endless nerfs we got in BC, as well as forcing us into dual wielding, therefore giving us no burst to speak of?

[Radux]

Hell, Enhancement is way more interesting in Wrath then it was in TBC. I believe their setup was WF/WF
Once there, all they used was SS (Nature dmg charges were usually consumed by someone other than us) ES and GoA + WFT twisting. We were basically auto-attack bots. It sucked.

[sicness]

I assume you mean the endless nerfs we got in BC, as well as forcing us into dual wielding, therefore giving us no burst to speak of?

Call it what you will, but I don't see how you can say enh shaman haven't received any sort of change when they not only went from 2 handed dps to dual wielding but also becoming THE premier melee group buffer of BC. Try to stop looking at all the negative things and you might notice how much enhance has changed the last two expansions, which is considerable compared to most classes.

---------- Post added 2010-08-15 at 01:21 AM ----------

Hell, Enhancement is way more interesting in Wrath then it was in TBC. I believe their setup was WF/WF
Once there, all they used was SS (Nature dmg charges were usually consumed by someone other than us) ES and GoA + WFT twisting. We were basically auto-attack bots. It sucked.

That's exactly my point though, he was saying enh hasn't received any changes compared to other classes yet they have changed so significantly the past two expansions...

[aether99]

Call it what you will, but I don't see how you can say enh shaman haven't received any sort of change when they not only went from 2 handed dps to dual wielding but also becoming THE premier melee group buffer of BC. Try to stop looking at all the negative things and you might notice how much enhance has changed the last two expansions, which is considerable compared to most classes.

---------- Post added 2010-08-15 at 01:21 AM ----------



That's exactly my point though, he was saying enh hasn't received any changes compared to other classes yet they have changed so significantly the past two expansions...

yes it has changed significantly, though every time farther and farther away from pvp. I dont want a sweeping overhaul, i honestly dont think we need one. but we do need some very specific tweaks in relation to pvp.

[sicness]

yes it has changed significantly, though every time farther and farther away from pvp. I dont want a sweeping overhaul, i honestly dont think we need one. but we do need some very specific tweaks in relation to pvp.

How do you mean farther away from pvp? I agree that enh needs pvp improvements but don't understand what you mean by that, are you saying that they don't want enh to be pvp viable?

Honestly, the primary issue with enh pvp is RNG and the necessity of it for the spec. Maelstrom for instance, is so based around being on a target long enough to get the procs off that it's unreliable because it's a combo point proc system and not a single proc like ret paladin's art of war is.

[bateman]

are you saying that they don't want enh to be pvp viable?

it certainly appears that way, they are quite obviously ignoring enhance.The searing totem combo point is cringe worthy to say the least.

Not to mention enhance survivability is lower than all other melee classes including rogues.

[aether99]

How do you mean farther away from pvp? I agree that enh needs pvp improvements but don't understand what you mean by that, are you saying that they don't want enh to be pvp viable?

Honestly, the primary issue with enh pvp is RNG and the necessity of it for the spec. Maelstrom for instance, is so based around being on a target long enough to get the procs off that it's unreliable because it's a combo point proc system and not a single proc like ret paladin's art of war is.

several problems with pvp.

one is our RNG yes, windfury, static shock, maelstrom weapon are all RNG. im fine with one of these being range (windfury and MW account for 20-30% of our dps as it is on live) but all 3 is too much. they made a halfway attempt at static shock, but they need to address either windfury or MW, MW is probably a bit easier id imagine.

second is the dualwield, thats not a problem in itself, but there is no hit on pvp gear, and we have little in the way of yellow attacks with our weapons, meaning we miss constantly, this is why a rogue does better with dualwield then us. though thats a much more marginal issue.

anything else can probably be seen as (your supposed to have some weakness) kinda deal.

I dont want to be OP, i just dont want to have to work harder for less return then other classes in pvp ^^

I think making MW a more featured ability in our pvp abilities would help both our controlled burst and survivability. but it would mean taking out the RNG somehow, ive made suggestions on how to before.

also i think static shock should be 100% proc on our shocks/stormstrike/lavalash (and damage scaled for balance obviously)

[myrddinde]

Enhance may not be ok, but still change to MW sounds nice. Bad it only affect hasted spell, not every spell. Still insta greater healing wave for 0 mana (huh, if it means 20% per stack as haste)

Tehre is no change, MSW with 5 stacks still costs full mana on Beta right now. Relogged to see if it is true when I read it, but it isn't. BEst to see with healing raind ... cost 5.500 mana with 5 stacks it is instant and costs 5500 mana still ...

---------- Post added 2010-08-15 at 08:14 PM ----------

no worries we will get brand new icons for our spells to compensate!!

In fact the previous build had a new icon for Fire Nova ... but this build it is only the WoW "W" as placeholder

[bateman]

I dont want to be OP, i just dont want to have to work harder for less return then other classes in pvp ^^

You can stop with your angsty teenager "im going to say I hate this guy, even though I 100% agree with him on every point, so the cool kids will still like me" little game, its transparent and obvious what you're doing.Those little smiley faces make it all the more obvious too, kid.

[myrddinde]

Shamans are the only class without any meaningful changes.I'm hoping they are saving the shaman changes for last, and not just ignoring us as usual.

GC said few days ago that shamans are fine, they underperformed but they had the utility to make up for it ... with other points he even mentioned utility like stoneclaw totem and earth elemental totem

I looked pretty sade for us enhancers atm. I only log my shaman to raid anymore everything else totally blows. In a raid I can at least bring some buffs but in cataclysm more classes will bring my buffes, without the need to me place totems 24/7 with 100y buff auras that don't go oom placing totems alone. Shamans are in a pretty sad state atm on beta. I can jsut hope that the larger mana pool, etc at 85 is better. at least it somewhat improved from 80-83.

[bateman]

GC said few days ago that shamans are fine, they underperformed but they had the utility to make up for it ... with other points he even mentioned utility like stoneclaw totem and earth elemental totem

I looked pretty sade for us enhancers atm. I only log my shaman to raid anymore everything else totally blows. In a raid I can at least bring some buffs but in cataclysm more classes will bring my buffes, without the need to me place totems 24/7 with 100y buff auras that don't go oom placing totems alone. Shamans are in a pretty sad state atm on beta. I can jsut hope that the larger mana pool, etc at 85 is better. at least it somewhat improved from 80-83.

GC does not understand the shaman class in the least bit.Its ironic how he says one thing, and does another for shamans(Buff my buff talents, inferior-in-every-way totems, lowest dps in the game by a long shot, and the worst pvp viability in the game).

[myrddinde]

Hell, Enhancement is way more interesting in Wrath then it was in TBC. I believe their setup was WF/WF
Once there, all they used was SS (Nature dmg charges were usually consumed by someone other than us) ES and GoA + WFT twisting. We were basically auto-attack bots. It sucked.

Not sure if you played the same tbc as I did. I had so much more fun in tbc than 1 minute in wotlk. We were a true melee class with some magic addons. Totem twisting, interrupting purging, throwing in a heal or there, dispelling poisons/disease ... we actually had gcd's to play our utility. Which is exactly what we ar emissing now, you can only focus on dps and if you do any benefit for anyone else it is a dps loss for you and that sucks. After all we get our DPS penalty for having utility that costs us dps to use.
I loved all the tasks I could take in tbc and still do competetive dps as true melee and not the half caster - even without full spellcrit in cataclysm.

---------- Post added 2010-08-15 at 08:34 PM ----------

GC does not understand the shaman class in the least bit.Its ironic how he says one thing, and does another for shamans(Buff my buff talents, inferior-in-every-way totems, lowest dps in the game by a long shot, and the worst pvp viability in the game).

Ye I have to giggle at comemnts like "we don't want talents that buff our buffs" totemic range? or "talents that just increse dps passively" or crit and get conviction

I mean even know real good enhancement shamans are hard to find, since we are somewhat overcomplicated to play. When I log my ret I press buttons, it is fun to play and even how much I suck at it my dps is "ok".
When I play the shaman I am under constant stress looking for procs and havinfg an action bar full of dps buttons to click. You don't end a raid and think "hah, that was fun to play" you need to be full focussed for the evening and realyl feel exhausted.
Outside raids I scrapped my shaman and play ret and don't regret it a bit. Ret is getting realyl weird and uncomfortable to play in cataclysm atm, too.

I wonder what they really want to do with this game. At one point they make this partnership with facebook and recruit mmo-distant people for casual play and ont eh other side they make the game overcomplicated ... 5 min tactic discussion before new instance bosses, people wiping in icc gear just because of one weird crap mechanic. mobs hitting you for 30k in spells in like 3-4 seconds ... 12k melee crits from mobs
It is just not a linear picture atm - sorry if that sounded a bit as a rant. I am sure it will get better as we get further into beta.

[DistortionSleep]

I just hope they remove the windfury icd like they said, if they do ill be happy. No windfury CD will be a huge boost.