The 2 Important Warlock Changes

[Repo123]

Many assume that the two important warlock changes will be: 1) Demon Soul no longer cost a shard and 2) soul link is going to be a trained ability.

Being a "the glass is half-full kind of person", I am speculating that the two important warlock changes will be 1) UA will no longer do damage if dispelled, but it still silences the dispeller and 2) fear will have a short cooldown (5 or 6 seconds).

Hope I'm wrong.

[Bubblykiss]

SL not only needs to be trained it needs to be auto cast upon Rez so that I don't need to waste the global before I get globalled

[ComputerNerd]

Soul Link while a necessity in pvp, is still an option not all will choose for pve.
Therefore it still has to be something you choose to cast, not being automatic.

[deadman80]

SL not only needs to be trained it needs to be auto cast upon Rez so that I don't need to waste the global before I get globalled

The intent is to remove the potential for getting wiped out within 1-2 GCDs in Cata PVP... I don't think that you'd survive long with 2+ dps playing whack-a-lock, but if you have time to summon a pet, you should have time to get up SL.

[ComputerNerd]

If you are getting globalled, then a 20% damage redirection is not going to help you.

[Yuanrang]

The intent is to remove the potential for getting wiped out within 1-2 GCDs in Cata PVP... I don't think that you'd survive long with 2+ dps playing whack-a-lock, but if you have time to summon a pet, you should have time to get up SL.

Aye, but hge said he wanted us to respawn with Soul Link enabled. Considering PvP respawns take place with your pet resummoned (well most of the time), he wouldn't have to summon a demon. Besides, if you're in immediate danger of being killed upon spawn in Cataclysm PvP. then ComputerNerd is right about Soul Link not going to help out. :P

I'm more curious if they actually alter Soul Link in any way if they're making it baseline. I'm not sure if they want everyone to have 20% damage redirection (which usually equals into reduction on Live, anyway due to Fel Synergy).

Besides, I thought the two important warlock changes was a baseline Soul Link and our DPS cooldown being shardfree?

[sugarfree]

There is no way they are putting fear on a cooldown. Unless they nerf/delete every counters to it: wotf, zerker rage, lichborne, clos, trinket, etc etc etc and get rid of the dr and the one that it shares with blind and seduce.

It's the most countered cc in the game, surely the devs are aware of that.

[Deleted]

So DS doesnt require SS and SL is trained. Confirmed by GC.

---------- Post added 2010-08-16 at 07:14 AM ----------

Aye, but hge said he wanted us to respawn with Soul Link enabled. Considering PvP respawns take place with your pet resummoned (well most of the time), he wouldn't have to summon a demon. Besides, if you're in immediate danger of being killed upon spawn in Cataclysm PvP. then ComputerNerd is right about Soul Link not going to help out. :P

I'm more curious if they actually alter Soul Link in any way if they're making it baseline. I'm not sure if they want everyone to have 20% damage redirection (which usually equals into reduction on Live, anyway due to Fel Synergy).

Besides, I thought the two important warlock changes was a baseline Soul Link and our DPS cooldown being shardfree?

They've said they will balance warlock around the idea of trained SL few months ago if they decide to make SL trainable. This is also due to the fact they have said they dont want people speccing for pvp to be leftoever with no viable pve spec and people speccing pve not being able to have any shot at pvp. SL being trainable makes it easier to balance and covers both areas.

[sugarfree]

soul link being a talent was a terrible idea in the first place in cataclysm. they clearly stated that they want players to have choices when they spec for something. soul link is NOT a choice, it is NECESSARY and we are balanced around this. it's like letting a rogue and mage spec for clos and iceblock respectively again.

this applies to rogue's preparation. i'm foreseeing this talent to be trainable or assassination and combat will be balanced without it so it will just be subtlety exclusive.

[fizikz]

Many assume that the two important warlock changes will be: 1) Demon Soul no longer cost a shard and 2) soul link is going to be a trained ability.

Being a "the glass is half-full kind of person", I am speculating that the two important warlock changes will be 1) UA will no longer do damage if dispelled, but it still silences the dispeller and 2) fear will have a short cooldown (5 or 6 seconds).

Hope I'm wrong.

fear on a cooldown? why ? fear already is the most countered CC in the game (zerker rage, tremor, fear ward, lichborne, wotf, etc) is limited to one target (minus aoe fears - which obviously already have a cd) and breaks on damage fairly easily......

and they're moving towards a system where dispels are less powerful in PVP - why would they nerf UA, given that?

i have no idea wtf you were thinking when you made this thread...

additionally if you were a "the glass is half-full kind of person" you'd be an optimist, expecting good things to happen.....does that mean warlocks being nerfed to hell is a good thing for you? because then "hope im wrong" doesn't really make much sense.

believe you were looking for "glass half empty"

[voidillusion]

I can only imagine that if they're putting Fear on CD it's because it will be strong again and not the crap it is atm.

And if this is the case, i don't mind.

[Repo123]

fear on a cooldown? why ? fear already is the most countered CC in the game (zerker rage, tremor, fear ward, lichborne, wotf, etc) is limited to one target (minus aoe fears - which obviously already have a cd) and breaks on damage fairly easily......

and they're moving towards a system where dispels are less powerful in PVP - why would they nerf UA, given that?

i have no idea wtf you were thinking when you made this thread...

additionally if you were a "the glass is half-full kind of person" you'd be an optimist, expecting good things to happen.....does that mean warlocks being nerfed to hell is a good thing for you? because then "hope im wrong" doesn't really make much sense.

believe you were looking for "glass half empty"

You are correct. Worked almost 75 hours in each of the last two weeks so I am tired. So the glass is half empty.

Although I agree that fear is quite easily countered they said they would limit the number number of counters to CC and adjust/nerf the cc instead.

I'm not advocating they put fear on a cooldown. I'm just thinking that the changes are gonna be big changes. I don't consider demon soul not requiring a shard as big. Soul link not being talented is a good thing, but not big. Neither one of these changes will really change they way we play as a lock.

I'm trying to stimulate some conversation. Forums have been pretty slow lately.

[Deleted]

like said, fear is same as was, no cd, just change to SL and DS

[Deleted]

I think that the only nerf fear can get is to break on damage like sheep-blind-sap etc. I like the way it is though:P
But puting a cd while mages geting 3 second stun after breaking sheep makes no sence!

[sugarfree]

of course it's not going to make sense if it breaks on damage. mages already have imp polymorph for a reason and they are mostly balanced around without having to sheep something. We are different, our peel is also our CC. Outside of Shadowflame, DCoil and destro Shadowfury, we rely on shared drs to peel something off of us (Howl, seduce and fear). If they give it a cooldown, hopefully theyll remove the drs and every counter to it. There's a reason why those counters exists, giving it a cooldown makes no sense whatsoever unless we get our own version of frost nova and power word shield (sacrifice doesnt count bc of long cd).

[Deleted]

giving fear a cooldown makes no sense whatsoever unless we get our own version of frost nova.

The day we get that, 9 classes will die! :P

[5648945621]

Being a "the glass is half-full kind of person", I am speculating that the two important warlock changes will be 1) UA will no longer do damage if dispelled, but it still silences the dispeller and 2) fear will have a short cooldown (5 or 6 seconds).

what?? what makes you think this? if ua didnt do dmg it would be completely worthless, and if blizz nerf fear again im seriously quitting the game forever

[Jessicka]

I'm not convinced either will happen.

Firstly, Fear is pretty bad CC. It's easily countered and broken and it's also a gap opener - you can't CC someone with it, and get a melee off your back at the same time, so it's already got that limitation on it. I also don't feel it's actually all that powerful; I think I've actually managed that stereotypical chain fear/dot to kill people about 3 times. Ever. And they were terrible players. It's also not a brilliant gap opener, the random pathing can actually be counter productive, sending people behind terrain features and out of LoS. Add in that it shares DR with Seduce and HoT, and you're already looking at an awful lot of limitations.

In addition to this, Glyphing it with Cower or Slow as GC suggests may be possible ends it's effect as a gap opener, leaving it as a CC, meaning Teleport is the only gap opener - I don't think having cooldowns on all our gap openers would be particularly balanced, as it would effectively mean we have periods of times in fights where we are genuinely helpless to do anything against a melee class. We can already find ourselves in that position through DR, but smart play can avoid that - a hard cooldown takes it entirely out of out hands.

Secondly, Affliction in PvP relies entirely on DoTs, however non-trivial they make dispelling in Cataclysm, that's not going to change and all those DoTs will face being dispelled and consequently Affliction will neither be able to put out any damage, nor self heal. Put simply, there has to be a reason not to dispell UA - Silence simply doesn't cover that, because talents and DR reduce this effect; it would effectively make it beneficial to dispell it in order to get those diminishing returns out of the way.

[voidillusion]

I'm not convinced either will happen.

Firstly, Fear is pretty bad CC. It's easily countered and broken and it's also a gap opener - you can't CC someone with it, and get a melee off your back at the same time, so it's already got that limitation on it. I also don't feel it's actually all that powerful; I think I've actually managed that stereotypical chain fear/dot to kill people about 3 times. Ever. And they were terrible players. It's also not a brilliant gap opener, the random pathing can actually be counter productive, sending people behind terrain features and out of LoS. Add in that it shares DR with Seduce and HoT, and you're already looking at an awful lot of limitations.

In addition to this, Glyphing it with Cower or Slow as GC suggests may be possible ends it's effect as a gap opener, leaving it as a CC, meaning Teleport is the only gap opener - I don't think having cooldowns on all our gap openers would be particularly balanced, as it would effectively mean we have periods of times in fights where we are genuinely helpless to do anything against a melee class. We can already find ourselves in that position through DR, but smart play can avoid that - a hard cooldown takes it entirely out of out hands.

Secondly, Affliction in PvP relies entirely on DoTs, however non-trivial they make dispelling in Cataclysm, that's not going to change and all those DoTs will face being dispelled and consequently Affliction will neither be able to put out any damage, nor self heal. Put simply, there has to be a reason not to dispell UA - Silence simply doesn't cover that, because talents and DR reduce this effect; it would effectively make it beneficial to dispell it in order to get those diminishing returns out of the way.

Ofc it's not powerfull atm, since they nerfed it to break on dmg its pretty weak. But there was a time when chain fear to death someone was a reality.

That is why i say that if they return it to the point where dmg doesnt break it for example and add a cd to it, actually it wouldnt be a bad change. You couldnt chain fear someone to death but you would have a decent fear and not the lousy excuse for a spell it's now.

[ComputerNerd]

Fear has a lot of unresolved issues which make it a pretty unreliable, or at worst useless CC at times.
Most protected against, not just in general magic counters or immunities, but has very specific counters naming it.
Breaks on an amount of damage, not a fear specific issue.
Causes line of sight or range issues if you choose to do anything but use as a gap opener and run away.
Due to the movement of an affected target it is simply too risky for reasonable PVE use, and in an environment where CC will matter much more, the warlocks role will be somewhat less important.