Raising Dead Isn't Evil

[Rukari]

Humans and the rest of the living races are the most similar to us, the players.
This being the case, we tend to evaluate both them and the Forsaken from our Human perspective.
In such a situation, isn't it guaranteed that we'll side with the Humans unless we specifically decide to distance ourselves from our own values and experiences and instead look at the relation between the two with neutral, outsider eyes?

Hypothetical situation/Thought Experiment:

Imagine the Humans (whether us or warcraft humans) were transplanted into a world where they were the only animal life. All other life is plant life and it is all sentient life. They all convert solar energy into food energy to survive. They also happen to be the only thing that's edible on the entire planet and the humans have no way to leave the planet, nor anyway to synthesize a new food source.
Now, they don't need to eat humans to survive, but the humans need to eat them to survive.

1. How do you think they would characterize the humans' survival needs? As necessary or as abominable and evil?
2. How would the humans view it?
3. Should they all just die out rather than kill to survive?
4. Should they not have children in order to neither burden the child and the plant life with the cost of their survival?
5. Is it evil to do what survival of you and your species requires? Or is it outside moral definitions?

Lesson:
It's easy to condemn another lifeform for needs you don't share.
It's even harder to objectively look at the situation when the need they have is you.

[Negrido]

Good and bad are relative. No single action is inherently good or evil, no matter how heinous or righteous.
There is no unchanging moral law.

Moral relativism lends itself quite well to playing a zombie.

[Nahte]

Good look with this thread.

[GennGreymane]

well sylv was all like.... hmmm these undead like working for me maybe these guys... i can rez them and they will love me 2 cause if there dead and want to do me its like not creepy cause were both dead after a shot in the head the part of her brain that thought that was a good idea was like shit now i have to mind control them

godfrey:..... bitch
garrosh: told ya she was a bitch
godfrey: /brofist
garrosh: /brofist
tirion: /brofist
rhonin: /chest bump
sylvanas: /dead /rezed /pissed

[Frioz]

.....

Mhmmm...


K.

[Bowen Dragonheart]

I know I am merely reposting but as I said, raising those that are already dead or even raising those that attacked you is not an evil action and is necessary to survive. Any specicies would do the same when faced with extinction. However, the raising of non-comtants and civilians is a completely different issue you; especially since the Forsaken are not at the point where they have to wipe out another species in order to survive.

[TyGuy25]

In the words of the good space marines, Purge them. They're inferior.

[Frioz]

In the words of the good space marines, Purge them. They're inferior.

They really need better work ethics.

[Rukari]

Good look with this thread.

Hah. Thanks.

I'll be amazed if anyone actually addresses the hypothetical and its questions instead of just flaming me outright.

It'd be nice if I could get at least one person to actually think about it instead of having a knee-jerk reaction to the situation.

[Garekh]

Again, raising the dead in and of itself isn't necessarily evil.

What is evil is acting like being raised from the dead was the most traumatic, horrific, and unjust thing that has ever happened in your life, then waging a nearly tunnel-visioned war of vengeance against the one who imposed the curse of undeath upon you, and then finally, once the one who cursed you has been defeated, you decide to impose your curse upon others all the while failing to understand why those others might not appreciate this.

[Frioz]

Hah. Thanks.

I'll be amazed if anyone actually addresses the hypothetical and its questions instead of just flaming me outright.

It's a game. If I wanted to question ethics/human social aspects, I would take a class on it. If it interests you, I suggest you take one.

[Rukari]

It's a game. If I wanted to question ethics/human social aspects, I would take a class on it. If it interests you, I suggest you take one.

I already have.

Some people have fun analyzing the relationships within games, including the social, political, and ethical dynamics.

Thinking about things is fun!

[apepi]

It is just unnatural, which is why people to not like it.

[Frioz]

I already have.

Some people have fun analyzing the relationships within games, including the social, political, and ethical dynamics.

Thinking about things is fun!

I agree, its a MMORPG, but, at least to me, I play the game to get away from such crap. Good though that you enjoy it, since I found sociology extremely boring.

[LoLHellcy]

these 2 don't necessarily correlate, due to the fact that even the forsaken view their being and existence as a curse. they full well know that raising the dead is evil, and their sole goal was to kill the lich king. after his demise their role changed to survival, which wouldn't have been too bad but they decided to follow the path of their enemies in re-animating the dead. They are ultimately no better than the scourge as they use the same methods and have the same goals as the scourge itself (the destruction of the living... or for now just the alliance). they could have gone about other methods such as controlling scourge units left behind. i wouldn't even mind if they just stuck to re-animation (as your "its their only way to survive" argument does hold some merit) but after Sylvannas is slain by forsaken who used their free will to slay her, she decides to delve into mind control and "charming" the dead. The entire difference between the Forsaken and the scourge was that the forsaken maintained their free will, and NPCs such as the Magi in Tirisfal Glade and the Warrior who joined the Argent dawn represent that free will. When she began to charm the re-animated, she ultimately crossed over a boundary that should never have been crossed, and Sylvannas took up a likeness of the lich king that is irrefutable.

---------- Post added 2010-08-17 at 03:49 AM ----------

Hah. Thanks.

I'll be amazed if anyone actually addresses the hypothetical and its questions instead of just flaming me outright.

It'd be nice if I could get at least one person to actually think about it instead of having a knee-jerk reaction to the situation.

ur welcome

[Nahte]

Honestly, I doubt anyone would have any beef with what the Forsaken were doing if they weren't doing it to combat the Alliance.

Rezzing Twilight bros would probably hold no objection with anyone. Everyone goes on about how unnatural it is, but no one had a problem with Death Knights and their actions against the Scarlet Crusade in Icecrown.

[Frioz]

Honestly, I doubt anyone would have any beef with what the Forsaken were doing if they weren't doing it to combat the Alliance.

Rezzing Twilight bros would probably hold no objection with anyone. Everyone goes on about how unnatural it is, but no one had a problem with Death Knights and their actions against the Scarlet Crusade in Icecrown.

This game isn't too much into depth, constantly contradicts itself, and its a game.

[Bowen Dragonheart]

Hah. Thanks.

I'll be amazed if anyone actually addresses the hypothetical and its questions instead of just flaming me outright.

It'd be nice if I could get at least one person to actually think about it instead of having a knee-jerk reaction to the situation.

Which one did I do? <.<

[Garekh]

The issue with raising the dead in the way that the Forsaken are in Cata is that it's evil by their own previously established standards, as dictated by the way Sylvanas has reacted to her own raising all the way through WotLK.

[Saturnalia]

Honestly, I doubt anyone would have any beef with what the Forsaken were doing if they weren't doing it to combat the Alliance.

Rezzing Twilight bros would probably hold no objection with anyone. Everyone goes on about how unnatural it is, but no one had a problem with Death Knights and their actions against the Scarlet Crusade in Icecrown.

What you said is just preposterous, as the death knights were a neutral faction raised AGAINST their will. Them fighting an organization bent on their destruction (and pretty much everyone else outside of their organization) would make sense, and no one would have an issue with that. The Alliance is not like the Scarlet Crusade in the regards that they want to wipe out all life but themselves, they just want the Horde gone.

The Forsaken's only means of surviving is through resurrection, so of course this is the route they'd want to take. You can't blame them for wanting to survive, but you can lay the blame on them claiming innocent lives that want nothing to do with being brought back from the dead.

(Long time Forsaken player, so I don't have any qualms with what they're doing, but I can see how wrong it is to bring back someone who doesn't want to be, and I also understand the Forsaken have no other way to continue surviving unless they do it anyway.)