Holy Trinkets

[Tyrrandion]

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...&cn=Tyrrandion

Hey. I was wondering what I should be looking for in my second trinket slot, with first being solace of the fallen. From just perusing over other peoples armories, I usually see Purified Lunar Dust (Frost Trinket) and Resurgence (Triumph Trinket). Almost every pally I see using solace is rocking 2 (HM and the normal 245) so I'm not sure if Solace+Lunar Dust or Solace+Resurgence.

Also, to squeeze an extra question in here semi-related. If I do end up using Solace+Lunar Dust, is the trinket worth prioritizing over 2piece t10 for frost badge purchases? For that matter is it even woth prioritizing over the offset gloves/etc? I can't really get a consensus as to which of these 3 are going to give me the biggest boost the fastest.

Thanks.

[alchavez911]

Heroic Solace and Meteorite Crystal from algalon 10.....and I went head and shoulder's for tier

[KaziOfTheSkies]

Hc Solace and the trink from BQ25. Heard somewhere thats the 2 BiS ones.

[Xart]

I wanna bash your gems/enchatns and some gear but i will hold myself back. But please. Change the libram atleast to the emblem of heroism one which takes down mana cost on holy light.

On topic: Get the int trinket from emblems the last thing you do with your emblems if you can't get Meterorite crystal.

---------- Post added 2010-08-18 at 10:56 AM ----------

Hc Solace and the trink from BQ25. Heard somewhere thats the 2 BiS ones.

Hc Solace is bis yes. The trinket from BQ 25 is one of the worst one in the game for holy paladins. Tho it's bis for arena/Bg

[takolin]

According to EJ's 3.3 compendium

Here are some notable trinkets, listed in ascending order of how Rawr thinks they are useful for a HL focused Paladin:

Tears of the Vanquished
Darkmoon Card: Greatness
Pandora's Plea
Sliver of Pure Ice
Purified Lunar Dust
Talisman of Resurgence The use can combined with Divine Plea to counter the penalty.
Sliver of Pure Ice (hc)
Solace of the Defeated
Meteorite Crystal
Solace of the Defeated (hc)

But I've seen post that say that the tears offer more mana return than the talisman, so I'm not sure who's right and who's wrong.



[edit]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...et-comparison/

finally, the priority list:
counting only mp5 (read it if you think that sp, even in 100+ amounts, is not worth 10-20 mp5):
Alga10->solace258>solace245>Tears~>card~>ToR~>PLD~>silv er of pure ice (hc)
counting sp&mp5 (do not read it if you think that sp, even in 100+ amounts, is not worth 10-20 mp5):
Solace258>alga-10~>solace245>PLD~>tears~~silver of pure ice (hc)~>card~>ToR~>silver of pure ice

by combinations:
Solace258+Meteorite shard >Solace x2 >solace[245 or 258]+tears~>solace[245 or 258]+silver of pure ice (hc)~>solace[245 or 258]+Talisman.

[Lindvahn]

Those trinkets only account for a pure INT build.

As one of the few paladins raiding endgame, I've chosen to go with a pure SP build. It's pretty simple too, itemize for haste/crit until your FoL is soft capped (700 haste) and then get crit/mp5 items. It's much easier to gear for SP build, since as INT you're gonna want as much haste/crit gear that you can get your hands on, and that leaves you with very specific items.

For 10 man runs, SP builds outheals INT builds by far, since your average FoL will heal for about 8000, where HL only heals for an average of 10.000 nomatter if you're INT or SP specced. And the mana efficeincy is just so much better. I wish just more people would use their brains and try out the SP build that I'm using, it benefits the raids so much more having the extra healing on the raid.

Feel free to check out my armory: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...orn&cn=Lindvar

I'm sorry if I think 9/12 25man hc and 10/12 10man hc is considered endgame... :P

[Deleted]

So there is my 2nd BIS trinket with someone who has no clue about holydins .

---------- Post added 2010-08-18 at 12:25 PM ----------

Those trinkets only account for a pure INT build.

As one of the few paladins raiding endgame, I've chosen to go with a pure SP build. It's pretty simple too, itemize for haste/crit until your FoL is soft capped (700 haste) and then get crit/mp5 items. It's much easier to gear for SP build, since as INT you're gonna want as much haste/crit gear that you can get your hands on, and that leaves you with very specific items.

For 10 man runs, SP builds outheals INT builds by far, since your average FoL will heal for about 8000, where HL only heals for an average of 10.000 nomatter if you're INT or SP specced. And the mana efficeincy is just so much better. I wish just more people would use their brains and try out the SP build that I'm using, it benefits the raids so much more having the extra healing on the raid.

Feel free to check out my armory: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...orn&cn=Lindvar

I'm sorry if I think 9/12 25man hc and 10/12 10man hc is considered endgame... :P

No its not end game its 1 raid per days guys puging
Also since when were we supoused to heal ppl in useless moments to out heal the other guys ? Thats resto Hots job...
Your a dam healer not a dps if a tank dies it means your shit , if a dps dies it maens your not good enough if non dies it means you are a good healer.
Healing metter is a rather stupid form of e-peen
Also your probabily have the no clue that on fights like BQL where there are constant Aoe dmg you can Fol someone within 1 sec while a druid Hot might take 3 sec to heal him but you DONT save his life.
While if a tank died for some reason like DC and the boss is solo tanked or dps + heal tank your OMG 7k healing wont save him while a 25k holylight with only 2 sec more cast time will do -_-
I wish ppl like you would use your brain


Also on topic try out the int emblema trinket :d
Best to use in the same time with DP if you need mana but you are in a dier situations and need to heal alot.

[SoulPoetry]

Those trinkets only account for a pure INT build.

As one of the few paladins raiding endgame, I've chosen to go with a pure SP build. It's pretty simple too, itemize for haste/crit until your FoL is soft capped (700 haste) and then get crit/mp5 items. It's much easier to gear for SP build, since as INT you're gonna want as much haste/crit gear that you can get your hands on, and that leaves you with very specific items.

For 10 man runs, SP builds outheals INT builds by far, since your average FoL will heal for about 8000, where HL only heals for an average of 10.000 nomatter if you're INT or SP specced. And the mana efficeincy is just so much better. I wish just more people would use their brains and try out the SP build that I'm using, it benefits the raids so much more having the extra healing on the raid.

Feel free to check out my armory: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...orn&cn=Lindvar

I'm sorry if I think 9/12 25man hc and 10/12 10man hc is considered endgame... :P

just... wow. i hope to god this is an epic troll with entirely too much effort put in.

OT: OP, your trinkets are fine, even for end game raiding. i wouldn't use frosties on the SP trinket until you have everything else, and even then it's mostly just for Valithria.

[Elessa]

I wish I had the self control to not reply here.

@Lindvahn.
Don't say that "SP build" outheals "INT build", and them throw out some completely random numbers.

HL only heals for an average of 10.000 nomatter if you're INT or SP specced

Why on earth are you saying that HL doesn't scale with SP? Holy Light heals for 1.66 more for every SP you have, while FoL only heals for 1 more for every SP you have. HL has a higher base heal than FoL. You can get up to 510 more Spellpower on FoL than HL (wrathful libram), but HL will still heal for more. If you are properly geared (stacking as much haste as possible and taking mp5 over crit) you can get almost 1.1 cast time on HL, while your FoL will still only be able to cast every seconds. With 50% extra healing on HL though the glyph, this is a no brainer. FoL does NOT outheal HL during any circumstances.

I wish just more people would use their brains and try out the SP build that I'm using, it benefits the raids so much more having the extra healing on the raid.

Cmon man... once again, this is bullshit. Yes, if you stack SP your HL's will heal for more than a int stacking paladin. BUT, you can't cast as many.

If you want to benefit your raid and bring as much healing as possible, regem and start casting HL's.
EDIT: You are not even correctly geared for FoL. You NEED 4pc T9 to even be reomtely close to a HL paladin in terms of output.

On topic: If you think that spellpower in huge amounts beats out int in small amounts (63 SP on weapon vs 30int for example) The 4th best trinkets are Heroic Solace, Meteorite Crystal, Normal solace then Lunar dust.
If you think that regen, in small amount is better that Spellpower in big amounts (example: you prefer 30int over 63SP on weapon) The list changes to: Meteorite crystal, solace heroic, solace normal, tears of the vanquished

[Cluasen]

Those trinkets only account for a pure INT build.

As one of the few paladins raiding endgame, I've chosen to go with a pure SP build. It's pretty simple too, itemize for haste/crit until your FoL is soft capped (700 haste) and then get crit/mp5 items. It's much easier to gear for SP build, since as INT you're gonna want as much haste/crit gear that you can get your hands on, and that leaves you with very specific items.

For 10 man runs, SP builds outheals INT builds by far, since your average FoL will heal for about 8000, where HL only heals for an average of 10.000 nomatter if you're INT or SP specced. And the mana efficeincy is just so much better. I wish just more people would use their brains and try out the SP build that I'm using, it benefits the raids so much more having the extra healing on the raid.

Feel free to check out my armory: ZzZzZ

I'm sorry if I think 9/12 25man hc and 10/12 10man hc is considered endgame... :P

What extra healing on the raid? The FoL you can use on your raid? Cause all holy specs can do that you know! The GoHL? Oh no you dont have that.. Then i dont see it ?
The thing is, you think that your spec is better then Holy Light spec because you are healing tanks and they dont die, but what you dont know is that you are being carried by the other healers, and they think that "this" is normal, but its not :/

OT: Please dont listen to this.. You will get wierd kids if you do this! Its like drinking diet coke, they will start to glow in the dark!
Your trinkets seem fine, unless you can get to algalon 10, TotGC or Marrowgar10 hc, then you probly wont see any better then what you have now..
Only tier parts you should get it head and shoulders.. not the shampoo.. but.. you know

EDIT:
I like how things just exploded into an "NO LINDVAHN" thread!

[Puri]

Just to derail the thread a little bit, but why is Sliver of pure ice (hc) in most cases considered better than Purified lunar dust?
If you look at the 45s internal cd and asuming the icd starts when you get the proc, you will get 2432 mana/120s (101,3mp5) from dust. If the icd starts when the effect wears off, its 1824 mana/120s (76 mp5), vs. Sliver with 1830 mana/120s (76,25mp5).
If you then consider the granularity of procs/uses (45s resp. 60s vs. 120s) in most fights dust will yield even more mana.

So why is dust considered so much worse, it even won't appear in some comparisons, whereas sliver(hc) is almost in every single one of them?

[SoulPoetry]

sliver is completely in the player's control, i have it macroed with arcane torrent and use it every chance i get, whereas dust will probably proc of your first two heals when you are at full mana anyway, essentially wasting it.

[Puri]

sliver is completely in the player's control, i have it macroed with arcane torrent and use it every chance i get, whereas dust will probably proc of your first two heals when you are at full mana anyway, essentially wasting it.

This is true, of course. But how much is really wasted? It ticks for 304 mana, the first time 5s after it procs. So usually you chaincast, even if you are at 99%
mana, you will for sure have lost more than 304 mana in the previous 5 seconds, so it isn't wasted - just the opposite, because it procs so early, it will proc even more often.

[SoulPoetry]

This is true, of course. But how much is really wasted? It ticks for 304 mana, the first time 5s after it procs. So usually you chaincast, even if you are at 99%
mana, you will for sure have lost more than 304 mana in the previous 5 seconds, so it isn't wasted - just the opposite, because it procs so early, it will proc even more often.

as soon as i lose my first 5-6k mana, i pop my AT and Sliver, ensuring none of it is wasted. for basically the same of amount of mp5 (if used on CD) you might as well have a trinket that's completely in your control, imo. i prefer sliver for it's use with AT but if you are an alliance paladin, i wouldn't blame you for using the trinket that doesn't require any extra effort, but i have to put in effort anyway, so i might as well make the most of it.

of course in an ideal world, we'd all have solace and wouldn't be having this discussion =P

[Tribunal]

I tried out FoL for fun/boredom alleviation. In normal modes. When we picked up TWO more paladins.

I went back as soon as we hit lolDreamwalker.

Regardless, the question is about trinkets, and most of the priorities posted are really nice, just comes down to what you can get. Algalon is pretty damn easy now if you can get people to go with you. You can have deaths and shit all over the place and he still falls over, and in 10 man you can usually muscle it so you're the only one wanting it BUT sadly the trinket doesn't exist

Solace is easy-ish to get a shot at (normal anyways) but be prepared for *$#&tons of competition. GL with pugging heroic, but if you have a guild you could talk into going back for it it's pretty worthwhile and pretty quick to get to just Twins (assuming your DPS still want trinks too )

And sadly I never picked up a solace back in the day due to DKP and just.. I was fine with my int trinkets. Fortunately going back and getting them wasn't too terrible.

Also I can't help but giggle at 10 stats gem in a SP build, but then again I dislike the 10 stats gem in general (except for melee)

[Lindvahn]

Wow, people needs to stop believing everything they read on EJ blindly, it seems to be rotting their brains. With starting gear like this chap has, gemming and gearing for pure SP can be a rather neat choice, since it allows for a huge throughput on the tanks, without having to worry about your mana.

I decided to post, because players new to the raiding scene needs to learn to make up their own minds before blindly following what everyone else is telling them. FoL is very, very powerful when you know what the hell you're doing. People airing theirs griefs clearly have never tried it out, becasue otherwise they would agree that it can be a VERY competitive spec when it comes to pure throughput.

I chose my paladin for raiding because my guild needed one for Ulduar raids, and after reading on INT builds for countless hours, I decided that I could do better than that. I've discussed this numerous times with the other paladins in my former raiding guild, and they couldn't argue with results.

I challenge people to at least try it out before calling it crap, it makes raiding as a paladin just a tiny bit dynamic and certainly loads more fun. I'm really sorry that people react this way, because trying out new things is what improving yourself is all about.

The "pure SP" approach to paladin healing is much more exciting that just staring at the tanks's health for the entire fight.

I will try to answer the points where people seem to have griefs with this build:

Raidhealing is not a paladins job, it's the druid/shaman/holy priest's job!
Who says it is? With this build, the pure throughput allows for alot of the healing to be spread out on the raid as well. I find it distrubing that people seem to dismiss this as being effective with "lol use glyph nub", because not only does the glyph in question provide very low throughput, it's not an intelligent heal, i.e. it will randomly heal people within range, some times healing players not damaged over someone who needs healing. Thinking the glyph will provide any dependable healing is just stupid. Only for Valithria Dreamwalker is it awesome.

But Holy Light heals for more than twice of what FoL does!
True, but only on paper. A majority of the healing done by HL will be overhealing. Because of that, the AVERAGE actual healing done by a HL will be around 10.000. On average, with nearly 4000 SP unbuffed, my FoL heals for around 8000. The healing done per point of mana is nearly double because of this.

But in certain fights, FoL won't heal for enough to keep the tank up / FoL sucks for Valithria Dreamwalker!
Well, I spend fights with my mana at or above 90%. I can switch to HL spamming in no time, and if required for a longer period, popping Divine Illumination will keep my mana healthy. This build in particular is more over powered than anything else on Valithria Dreamwalker. Anyone claiming that pure spell power builds sucks for this fight must be retarded. With my SP getting close to 4000, my HL heals for over 22.000 and with the clouds from taking the portals, mana is not an issue, so the throughput on this particular fight is going to sky rocket. Just keep spare glyphs of holy light handy, so you still get the bonus splash damage on her.

[Deleted]

Lindvahn, if FoL spec with SP gemming is so good, then why are you still stuck on 9/12 25man hc and 10/12 10man hc? if it is tank death, then your FoL spec does not have enough throughput. if it is raid members death, then raidhealing does not go over well. and don't come to me with "personal slipups from raidmember", if you can handle halion25 and LKnormal 25, then you are more than qualified for those hardmodes.

[ATTHEREADY]

The truth is, going SP and spam FoL is bad. It's like going BM for raiding, you are nerfing yourself and progression.
Unless ofcourse you can back it up with some math, and oh yeah, people tried it already.. they failed.

Math is the universal language for a reason, you can't debunk it.

[Ducon]

Those trinkets only account for a pure INT build.

As one of the few paladins raiding endgame, I've chosen to go with a pure SP build. It's pretty simple too, itemize for haste/crit until your FoL is soft capped (700 haste) and then get crit/mp5 items. It's much easier to gear for SP build, since as INT you're gonna want as much haste/crit gear that you can get your hands on, and that leaves you with very specific items.

For 10 man runs, SP builds outheals INT builds by far, since your average FoL will heal for about 8000, where HL only heals for an average of 10.000 nomatter if you're INT or SP specced. And the mana efficeincy is just so much better. I wish just more people would use their brains and try out the SP build that I'm using, it benefits the raids so much more having the extra healing on the raid.

Feel free to check out my armory: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...orn&cn=Lindvar

I'm sorry if I think 9/12 25man hc and 10/12 10man hc is considered endgame... :P

Was about to start a debate with you but then realised you dont even know our haste soft cap and decided to just follow the thread.

[Tyrrandion]

Thank you for the replies. However, I did still wonder, is the the difference between the HM sliver and regular sliver really make or break when trying to replace the triumph trinket? Just wondering so I don't screw someone else out of it if it drops and the other healer needs it (normal versions). Thanks.