Need fine tuning help re: Runes

[Mandrageran]

Hello all,

Well, I'm not a stupid guy. Have degrees and all that. More importantly, I've spent alot of time on my main (my DK), studying, reading EJ, working priorities, etc. I'm a decent player ... but I'm not a top player.

I've now joined an excellent guild, and need to eliminate my last weakness - my inability to monitor and maximize runes.

Before now, my dps has always been at or near tops just using priorities and knowing when to dump, maximize procs, etc. And, often, I would go to EJ or here, or somewhere else, and read up on runes. But I've never been able to "get it" to the point where I can implement the best spells at the right time in game based on death runes, or whatever runic combination somebody says is optimal for the best cast.

Can somebody please help me out? I mean, I get it intellectually, but I'm having a really tough time implementing it. Like I said, I'm no dummy, so maybe I'm making it more complicated than it should be? I honestly don't know.

I do know that I have 3 friends that are very, very good. 2 of them (both frost) watch runes (the UH dk says he doesn't need to). The two frosties are happy to talk to me about any dk mechanic ... except for runes. It may be that they know how to do it, but don't know how to explain it. So, I submit myself to public mockery and shame. Please help!

Looking forward to the 13 year old telling me "It's easy you noobtard ... look at mah chart!"

.

Peace

[Wingwraith]

First, it might help if you told us what spec you play. (I'm guessing you play Frost)
It sounds like you're having trouble with your priority and attributing it to the runes for some reason.

[Apostolic]

NOOD, L2Watch Procs....
There, got that out of the way. :-D

From the sounds of it, you need a good add-on to display when you procs are up. Not your runes. Your runes are pretty much on a set order no matter what spec your in.
IE Frost is:
IT, PS, BS, Pest,
OBx5, Pest, BS (Repeat)

You need something to watch your procs such as Power Aura or something similar. ForteXorcist work decent also.

[Mandrageran]

Thanks folks.

Yeah, I play frost. Can't post a link, but I'm Mandrageran on Misha.

I have my UI set up well. I know when Rime or Freezing Fog procs, and when to use Howling Blast. I understand the priority, which is basically Diseases > Obl > BS > FS-dump. (insert procs, bt/ua, as needed).

But, honestly, when people start talking about using death runes at certain times, canceling auras, etc, I get lost.

Also, I don't get very many obliterates in a row. I usually have to go back and forth between FS and Obl, and drop a pestilence when needed. So, this tells me something is wrong.

Finally, my disease up time is usually in the mid 80 percent area. From what I understand it should be around 94-95%. So there is another problem, which also may be directly related to misusing runes and therefore missing pestilence opportunities.

[DarkenedPaladin]

A few things to point out. Using runes takes priority over all else. Don't mix dumps and rune usage, just dump the runes, then try to empty your runic bar.

Second, You occasionally have to cancel the BT aura to prevent ending up with a Blood rune/Death rune for two cycles. This is actually rather hard to explain but I'll give it a shot. Basically, you use BT in order to pop UA and still have 2 death runes in the next rotation. This looks something like this:

-PS IT OB BS BT/UA Pest

Upon doing so, you may notice that before your next pestilence rotation, you still have a death rune active. What you're going to have to do to prevent wasting runes on Blood strikes is /cancelaura Blood Tap in order to change the death rune back into a blood rune before casting pestilence or blood strike.

Oh, and you should be using GoD and your diseases should never fall off with it unless you have poor latency.

[jazx]

what rune addon are you useing?

[Foibles]

I find my Blood Tap buff running out about .2 before I refresh diseases at a second or so left on the duration.

[Wingwraith]

I think I know what the problem is, you're using a priority system for GoD when you should be using a strict rotation.
As far as BT/UA, there are a few methods and you just needs to find the one you're most comfortable with.

GoD rotation:

IT PS OB BS Pest Dump
OB OB OB Dump
OB OB BS Pest Dump
OB OB OB Dump
OB OB BS Pest Dump

[Mandrageran]

I think I know what the problem is, you're using a priority system for GoD when you should be using a strict rotation.
As far as BT/UA, there are a few methods and you just needs to find the one you're most comfortable with.

GoD rotation:

IT PS OB BS Pest Dump
OB OB OB Dump
OB OB BS Pest Dump
OB OB OB Dump
OB OB BS Pest Dump

Really? I thought everything was calling this a priority system >.<. I've done my reading ... honest.

So, with the above rotation, am I right in assuming that KM procs and KM+Rime procs take priority over OB?

Assume there are no procs and my OB is on GCD. Do I wait and do nothing to avoid screwing up my rotation?

TBH, this looks too easy, so I must be missing something. But, to be fair to myself, the guys I'm comparing my performance with are in all BiS. I'm not even close.

Rune addon- Magic Runes.

BT/UA - I'm starting to get used to popping BT/UA/cancel aura after my second death rune, then pestilence. But that's just the first rotation. After that, especially with this "new" rotation, I dunno.

Thanks all, so much, for the help.

[Foibles]

With GoD it allows you to have a fairly set rotation, especially when you start to get 264 level weapons and a nice bit of arpen on gear, when Obliterate really starts to outshine KM Frost Strikes.

If you stick to Glyph of Icy Touch, it remains a priority, but Obliterate is number one with KM FS second. (Pretty sure about this)

[Mandrageran]

With GoD it allows you to have a fairly set rotation, especially when you start to get 264 level weapons and a nice bit of arpen on gear, when Obliterate really starts to outshine KM Frost Strikes.

If you stick to Glyph of Icy Touch, it remains a priority, but Obliterate is number one with KM FS second. (Pretty sure about this)

1. Just to be clear, are you saying that with GoD Obliterate takes priority over KM FS? What if I'm not yet even close to Arp Cap? If this is true, then it really is a simple rotation. With GoD, it sort of looks like the diseaseless blood spec we had about 1.5 yrs ago.

2. What about KM+Rime HB?

3. So, lemme ask again because this is a problem for me. If I'm in the middle of say OB OB OB Dump and I have to wait 2 seconds for the next OB but FS is up, do I wait?

4. I've been dong BT/UA/Cancel Aura after the BS. If I remember correctly, there are two death runes up at this point, so doing BT/cancel aura/pest leaves me with 2 death runes still. However, after the first time with GoD, this situation will not arise again. Where do you fit BT/UA in after the initial rotation?

[Wingwraith]

1. Just to be clear, are you saying that with GoD Obliterate takes priority over KM FS? What if I'm not yet even close to Arp Cap? If this is true, then it really is a simple rotation. With GoD, it sort of looks like the diseaseless blood spec we had about 1.5 yrs ago.

2. What about KM+Rime HB?

3. So, lemme ask again because this is a problem for me. If I'm in the middle of say OB OB OB Dump and I have to wait 2 seconds for the next OB but FS is up, do I wait?

4. I've been dong BT/UA/Cancel Aura after the BS. If I remember correctly, there are two death runes up at this point, so doing BT/cancel aura/pest leaves me with 2 death runes still. However, after the first time with GoD, this situation will not arise again. Where do you fit BT/UA in after the initial rotation?

1. Yes. It is a pretty simple rotation. The "hard" part is that your refresh window is ~.5 seconds. The trick is to always use your DD OB as soon as it's avail. It's definitely not "diseaseless" though, maintaining your diseases with Pest is the only thing that takes priority over OB.

2. KM Rime is often ignored

3. If your runes aren't avail for your OB yet, you'd FS. It would look like: OB OB FS OB
There are several places in your rotation that you can interweave your FS's, you just must never delay your DD OB.

4. There are a couple ways to use your BT/UA. Some people use it after their DD OB when all runes are on CD. It's a matter of what you find comfortable.

[MortalWombat]

What is your latency at normally?

[Wingwraith]

What is your latency at normally?

Leatrix Latency Fix has brought my avg latency from 250-300ms to 75-100ms.
When I was at 300ms I found it very difficult to use GoD. Very little room for error.
(I'm currently using GoIT)

[Mandrageran]

What is your latency at normally?

Mine's usually right around 100.

[Foibles]

1. Just to be clear, are you saying that with GoD Obliterate takes priority over KM FS? What if I'm not yet even close to Arp Cap? If this is true, then it really is a simple rotation. With GoD, it sort of looks like the diseaseless blood spec we had about 1.5 yrs ago.

2. What about KM+Rime HB?

3. So, lemme ask again because this is a problem for me. If I'm in the middle of say OB OB OB Dump and I have to wait 2 seconds for the next OB but FS is up, do I wait?

4. I've been dong BT/UA/Cancel Aura after the BS. If I remember correctly, there are two death runes up at this point, so doing BT/cancel aura/pest leaves me with 2 death runes still. However, after the first time with GoD, this situation will not arise again. Where do you fit BT/UA in after the initial rotation?

1. Before I gemmed arpen (600ish with gear) and started using SoA, my Obliterate still hit harder than KM-FS.
2. If nothing else is up or you have two targets (or shitty weapon compared to gear) use KM-Rime Howling Blast.
3. Use Frost Strike
4. I usually use IT PS OB (BT/UBA/Gloves/Saronite Bomb) Pest BS to start.

[Mandrageran]

1. Before I gemmed arpen (600ish with gear) and started using SoA, my Obliterate still hit harder than KM-FS.
2. If nothing else is up or you have two targets (or shitty weapon compared to gear) use KM-Rime Howling Blast.
3. Use Frost Strike
4. I usually use IT PS OB (BT/UBA/Gloves/Saronite Bomb) Pest BS to start.

You all are very helpful. Thanks so much.

@ Foibles - Great comments. I was noticing these issues last night. From what I've read, when one is near ArP cap, Obl is the hardest hitting spell regardless of procs. However, I'm still gemming for strength for a bit yet, and I'm rocking these fancy 251 weapons >.<. http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...cn=Mandrageran. Nor do I have anywhere near the best trinkets...

So, my Frost Strikes on KM hit relatively hard, and HB on KM+Rime still definitely seems worth the key stroke.

Regarding your comment number 4. This is what I've been trying to use as an opener. I have a couple questions. First, BT/UA after Obl but before BS/Pest? I'll have to try that. Do you cancel aura for the BT? Second, any reason you use Pest before BT? I've found myself doing that lately just because my DoT uptime on logs has been around 85% and I want it around 95%, so I've been a little paranoid. Third, if you have a macro for your BT/UA, Gloves, Saronite Bomb burst, would you mind sharing it? I can't seem to get mine to work (again, not stupid... I promise .

I've also been trying to figure out how to maximize my berzerk racial. It has a 3min cd, as does raise dead. Has anyone played with a macro for these two casts?

Again, everyone, thank you very much. This is a huge help.

[Foibles]

I have the Orc racial macroed with Raise Ghoul

/cast Blood Fury
/use 13
/use 14
/use Potion of Speed
/cast Raise Dead
/cast Summon Gargoyle

For the gloves and UBA

#showtooltip Unbreakable Armor
/cast Blood Tap
/cast Unbreakable Armor
/use 10
/use Saronite Bomb

The reason for Ob and UBA before pest is it will proc your Sigil and the strength bonus from UBA before you refresh your diseases, thus giving them the boost.

[ChildeRoland]

I always had big problems using Blood Tap, untill I made a macro to remove the buff straight after casting UA.
I don't remember exactly, but it's something like:

#showtooltip
/cast Blood Tap
/cancelaura Blood Tap

Or it might have been a castsequence, I can check when I log on my DK again.

[Foibles]

The cancelaura should go at the start, otherwise you will have it remove the buff right after it activates.