PvP as Enhancement Shaman - Cata

[Deleted]

Once upon a time, enhancement shamans were feared in the battlegrounds, i'd say even more than pom-pyro mages. There was no Resilience and with our powerful 2h WFs we could drop any cloth in seconds and we could manage killing anyone else at 1v1 combat.

Then, Resi came with BC, and enh shamans started to suck a lot, A LOT (at pvp).
With the introduction of DW we weren't the burst-machines we were and didn't have any survability at all.

With Wotlk, the situation improved a bit with the implementation of the ghost wolves, but we still suck without them... No big chances for an ENH shaman at all.. compared to any other melee class.

Now, Cata approaches from the distance, and maybe it will bring enh's salvation within. Spiritmaster's Grace is an elemental spell no doubt, but maybe it will be very useful for Enh too. Ancestral swiftness...
Moreover, they said enhancement's shaman dps at pve wasn't as good as it might be in combats with too many movement, and they'll improve that... You guys think that could also improve our dps at pvp?

What do you think, we'll be feared again? or still laughed at? /sigh

[aether99]

it depends, while i have hope it is slim.

I think that the searing flames/lavalash talents will ultimately be skipped in pvp because of the amount of time they take to build up, and can be easily avoided/removed making it ill effective. people will intead choose to skip them, freeing up space for more pvp talents.

we will have more mobility (ghostwolf, runspeed increase, earthen power, spirit walkers might be useful at times, runspeed increase with wolves)

we will have many ways to snare (frozen power, frost shock, frostbrand, unleash frostbrand, earthbind)

But for damage? MW is still heavily under-represented in pvp, we need a way to generate those stacks in pvp. maybe if maelstrom weapon also had a chance to proc when taking damage?

---------- Post added 2010-08-22 at 03:39 AM ----------

http://www.wowtal.com/#k=W8fO0Bi8.9vn.shaman

something to this affect, not concrete (one or two points unsure where would be the best dps increase) but overall its what i think will be done

[Deleted]

I agree with all you said! But remember that thing that Blizz will do to improve damaging in lotta-movement fighting... I can't wait to see that they'll do :P

PS: MW stacking up when taking damage is a good idea for pvp.

[aether99]

I agree with all you said! But remember that thing that Blizz will do to improve damaging in lotta-movement fighting... I can't wait to see that they'll do :P

PS: MW stacking up when taking damage is a good idea for pvp.

depends if they think theyve done enough to improve on movement fighting or not.

[Stormhusk]

till they reduce CD on wolves thats when ill start pvpin enh, tired of poping wolves and once there gone the graveyard is my bestfriend

[Patchumz]

Nope, no chance in hell we'll ever be viable. Early TBC before the hidden CD on WF, Shaman were still pretty badass, once the hidden CD came around.... Shaman are the most useless piece of trash on the planet, and no reasonable improvements (Or even acknowledgement of the hidden CD being added until like.. 2 years after they did it). I see no hope for the future of Enh, Elemental on the other hand has gotten lightyears better than early TBC, and I'm loving it. Eventually all the PvP Enh Shaman will realize Blizzard has no idea what they're doing. Until then, topics like this will keep coming up, and the answer will always be the same.

Granted, it'd be awesome if they proved me wrong and made Enh a real spec again, but at the moment, all we have are shattered hopes and dreams from many years of nerfs and torture.

[Zarios]

Enh is viable.. Why are people even saying that it is not. Have you tried to play a GOOD comp with GOOD players? PVP isn't always about yourself. It requires Teamwork to work together to overcome the other team. If you want enh to be OP like in Vanilla, then you don't know anything about PVP (One shots)

Sure enh is harder to play in pvp then most other specs, but it's viable. Also you can't get real pvp out of battlegrounds, where everyone is teaming up on you.. Also you need Resil/proper spec/gear, you don't run in Bgs with full PVE and win.

Enh also takes time to become good at. I just started PVP right after that PVP video I made. And it's just for promoting more enh shamans to pvp. I know I'm way better than I was in that video, changed everything up. With practice comes skill

This is my first season and I'm working on 2.2k 3s and 5s now. And I'm sure I can pull off 2.2k twos for my arena master by the end of the season. I'd be 2.2k if my teammates play...

I look forward to cata..

Edit: I'm not saying enh is fine atm. It needs a lot of work, hardly any viable comps, not enough Defensive abilities. But this is what you have to expect when you roll a shaman, hard work(You shouldn't have to, it's a shame). Though we are getting a little love, and hopefully come more.

[elossa]

yeah same as whit war, need a dispeller at ur side, basicly enh is a free for all cc if u cant predict stuff whit tremor/earthbind(talented) which is hard but dmg wise etc aint bad lol i never use frostbrand toe just go whit the same old flametounge-OH, WF-MH, or even dw flametounge works well in pvp extra dmg every hit and more sp to ur spells, but agree on the remark of Maelstrom weapon proc is kinda bad 5stacks whit rather low proc rate untill alot of haste/tohit/exp and of course gota be able to hit, pluss side thoug, in cata 15movment speed lower cooldown to all shocks+windshear easier to reach and max up, e-shock gets 20% base from start, and as some1 said options in cata whit talents for pvp vs pve more dif etc xD

[Deleted]

Edit: I'm not saying enh is fine atm. It needs a lot of work, hardly any viable comps, not enough Defensive abilities. But this is what you have to expect when you roll a shaman, hard work(You shouldn't have to, it's a shame). Though we are getting a little love, and hopefully come more.

THIS xd

I don't say what you're doing is reachable, even at BC days were shamans that got into 2k+ even at 2v2... but it's a shame and not fair u.u

Edit:

If you want enh to be OP like in Vanilla, then you don't know anything about PVP (One shots)

I didn't mean this, I just want certain equality.

PS: Zarios you have encouraged me to gear up with some pvp gear and try to kick some alliance asses at BG just like old times... I'll see what I get hahaha

[Omanley]

Also you can't get real pvp out of battlegrounds, where everyone is teaming up on you.. Also you need Resil/proper spec/gear, you don't run in Bgs with full PVE and win.

you are right about what you said concerning enh viability in arena, but the very fact that you´ll mostly get focused on instead of worse geared players of other classes should get you accept that it´s common sense for wow players (something like a mute understanding), that shamans are victims in general. survivability issues sound like only one problem in arena, but it becomes THE problem in bg´s (which will become much more popular in cata).

shaman needs a baseline overhaul. talents like riptide, thunderstorm, rooting earthbind(ele), earth shield, feral spirits...
they´d be awesome for the respective other specs (ofc weaker versions for those)

shaman gets pvp viability through talents/glyphs(stoneclaw) only atm, with the exception being windshear/tremor totem.other classes have baseline viability, with a little added viability through talents.

[Ryld]

Enh is very frustrating and masohistic to play in bg atm.In fact enh in bg is just meat.Well its sad if enh got problems in 1vs1.Any strategies shoud be start from words: "if u got luck do that,or use that skill...".Im playing form 6 month at bg.Win when my wolves are ready to use,or i fing noob player or guy with worst gear.Windfury atm hit low numbers if enemy got enought resi,frozen power isnt so good as should be.Just runing and dying.Of cousre beast cleave is great in arenas,but why enh is good class only there?Well i got hope that blizz change something in cata :/.

[Tempos]

Since in pvp we always use utility totems and hardly ever use our buff totems we lose a bit of damage from that, splitting utility totems from buff totems would be nice, but that is a different issue for a different thread. Our searing flames talent will get little to no use in PvP, as it will be hard to build up. With larger health pools and the changes to Maelstrom weapons, greater healing wave will help a lot to keep us alive, but our wolf cooldown still hinders us when down, but makes us beasts when up, so who really knows, but i doubt it

[zchmch1]

Ima pvp as enhance. kick some ass as a gibbed spec and then laugh at noobs, like so. Muahahahahahahahaha ahaha ahahahahahaha ahahahahahaha ha!

[Clous17]

Enhance has been viable this entire expansion. Stop being terrible.


As for cata viability, its not looking very good. The one thing we had going for us, offensive dispels while still maintaining some damage, is pretty much gone in cata. I oom in 8 purges. Literally. God forbid if I throw a shock or totem in there.


Its cool though, we have a few ways to get mana. Sham rage, Water shield, and auto attacks supplying mana thanks to talents. While this works fantastic for a pve standpoint, it does not transition well in pvp. Due to cc or roots, you can effictevely keep me oom after my initial purge pain train.

Assuming you do not get CC'd through sham rage, if your target has some form of absorb effect, sham rage doesn't work. While not a huge deal in LK thanks to imp stormstrike and the ability to spam the living shit out of purge, in cata it totally cockblocks us.

On top of our mana issues, we still do no real burst, mediocre damage, and have pisspoor survivability while having almost all of our viability tied into a 3 minute cooldown.

[Patchumz]

Enhance has been viable this entire expansion. Stop being terrible.


As for cata viability, its not looking very good. The one thing we had going for us, offensive dispels while still maintaining some damage, is pretty much gone in cata. I oom in 8 purges. Literally. God forbid if I throw a shock or totem in there.


Its cool though, we have a few ways to get mana. Sham rage, Water shield, and auto attacks supplying mana thanks to talents. While this works fantastic for a pve standpoint, it does not transition well in pvp. Due to cc or roots, you can effictevely keep me oom after my initial purge pain train.

Assuming you do not get CC'd through sham rage, if your target has some form of absorb effect, sham rage doesn't work. While not a huge deal in LK thanks to imp stormstrike and the ability to spam the living shit out of purge, in cata it totally cockblocks us.

On top of our mana issues, we still do no real burst, mediocre damage, and have pisspoor survivability while having almost all of our viability tied into a 3 minute cooldown.

By "viable" you must mean "Heroism/Bloodlust".. cuz we're no where close to Rouge/Warrior/DK/Pally viable.

If you meant more viable than in TBC, then yes.. we're doing better, but not on par with everyone else.

[Clous17]

By "viable" you must mean "Heroism/Bloodlust".. cuz we're no where close to Rouge/Warrior/DK/Pally viable.

If you meant more viable than in TBC, then yes.. we're doing better, but not on par with everyone else.

Lust is a given, but you provide the best offensive dispels in the game, while still having a good deal of damage and other support. We have a niche. What's important is you could still get Glad without wanting to suicide. We aren't the best class, but we aren't fucking garbage currently.

[takolin]

On top of our mana issues, we still do no real burst, mediocre damage, and have pisspoor survivability while having almost all of our viability tied into a 3 minute cooldown.

You get free, instant greater healing waves though at the cost of damage if you get a 5stack of MSW.

[Patchumz]

Lust is a given, but you provide the best offensive dispels in the game, while still having a good deal of damage and other support. We have a niche. What's important is you could still get Glad without wanting to suicide. We aren't the best class, but we aren't fucking garbage currently.

Right, we were garbage in TBC, now we're just unneeded goods, but not bad enough to completely throw out.

[Clous17]

You get free, instant greater healing waves though at the cost of damage if you get a 5stack of MSW.

Actually we don't currently = \ I'm unsure if its intended or not, but they are only currently reducing the mana cost by 30 percent. So its still a hugeeee chunk of my mana.

Right, we were garbage in TBC, now we're just unneeded goods, but not bad enough to completely throw out.

Its apparent you are just one of those players who will never be satisfied with a class. If we were unneeded goods, there would be no gladiator enhance shamans. Just because you are god awful at a spec doesn't mean its garbage.

[Deleted]

still laughed at? /sigh

This