When flame shock is on target...

[Deleted]

And has that been any different since the beginning of time? No.. this is a different situation, but you seem to have a very narrow minded view on the situation. How about you focus on your terrible mains while we focus on our class, kay? Noob Mage/DK has no idea what he's talking about.. go play your easy-mode DPS classes, let the Shaman deal with the Shaman problems, since you quit seriously playing it in Vanilla from the sound of it. (When we were more viable as a class) It seems all you do is roll FotM.

Since Vanilla, the talents have been set out like this, and when Cata rolled around, we didn't get anything 'extra' to compensate for having to spec into something that no one else has to spec into anymore, we didn't get some nice clean 'exchange' for what the other classes gained. This isn't a backward compatible argument, because unless you rebalance the classes around no longer having to spec for extra range, Shaman are 2 points down, nerfed.

Try thinking a little before you spout ridiculously incorrect arguments about classes you don't play seriously.

You're still hung up on the point "he has something I don't have, which is unfair".
Yes, they don't have to specc into improved range anymore, but that's mostly because it doesn't matter if Blizz changed the range of their spells.
I mean... which non-boomkin will use Wrath or Starfire? Mages are all ranged-casters, so the range-change won't matter either.
Same goes for Locks and Priests.
So that's why Blizz can easily change their spells by increasing the ranges, because it won't hurt anyone and this way they don't have to spent lame talentpoints.
The problem for us is, that there's Enhancement, too. Blizz can't only see Elemental spells as Elemental-only, but they have to think "how will it affect Enhance?". And in this case it'd be overpowered for Enhance to have a 40yards snare.
Now the problem why we can't have Elemental Reach as a level 10-bonus, has already been posted in another thread, I guess...
So I'll ask you: What would you want to be removed from our bonuses to get Reach?
Elemental Fury is crit, so you would have to specc into it when they remove it. Thunderstorm will stay, can't change it. And EotS already has two effects.
They MIGHT add it to Elemental Fury, but then that bonus would be really overpowered.

So yeah, we have to specc into improved range for our spells, but that is for multiple reasons.
The real problem lies in us having too many DPS-talents in the lower half of our tree, so we end up spending way too many points there.... and can't really take improved Ghost Wolf AND Totem-reach.

[Reefiis]

Us shamans for ele spec into range, other specs have to spec into core abilties, Fire mages spec for living bomb, we have to spec ino range because we already have our abilities, plus we're a hybrid, alot more to deal with than just ele, there are other spec affected, besides, its not the end of the world, get used to it like us other shams and l2play with what we got, it isnt hard. especially for something such as this...

[Meteos]

Stop talking out of your ass, seriously. You have to spec to get Frostbolt? To get Arcane Missiles? To get Fireball? To get Scorch? To get Arcane Barrage? No, you don't.. Almost no one has main-rotation abilities in their trees anymore.

Time to be a smart ass!

Deathknights: Frost Strike, Howling Blast, Heart Strike, Scourge Strike.
Druid: Starfall,Incect Swarm, Mangle.
Hunter: Chimera Shot, Explosive Shot, Silencing Shot.
Mage: Living Bomb, Water Elemental, Deep Freeze.
Paladin: Crusader Strike, Divine Storm.
Priest: Vampiric Touch, Mind flay.
Shaman: Stormstrike.
Warlock: Haunt, Felguard, Chaos bolt, Conflagrate.
Warrior: Mortal Strike, Bloodthrist.

Seriously stop complaining and think for a second. Enhancement shamans with a 40 yard Frost Shock?

Those spells you listed are only basic spells that are improved in talent tree and also giving more spells to go along with said spell. From what I've seen of shamans, you use Shocks and 3 spells in all the trees offensively that is learned from trainers. Never giving another spell in the talent tree to throw in your rotation. I don't see Fire mages dpsing with Frostbolt or Arcane Mages using Anything other then Arcane spells, but Shamans? I see both specs using Lightning Bolt and in some cases Chain Lightning.

[Reefiis]

Time to be a smart ass!

Deathknights: Frost Strike, Howling Blast, Heart Strike, Scourge Strike.
Druid: Starfall,Incect Swarm, Mangle.
Hunter: Chimera Shot, Explosive Shot, Silencing Shot.
Mage: Living Bomb, Water Elemental, Deep Freeze.
Paladin: Crusader Strike, Divine Storm.
Priest: Vampiric Touch, Mind flay.
Shaman: Stormstrike.
Warlock: Haunt, Felguard, Chaos bolt, Conflagrate.
Warrior: Mortal Strike, Bloodthrist.

Seriously stop complaining and think for a second. Enhancement shamans with a 40 yard Frost Shock?

Those spells you listed are only basic spells that are improved in talent tree and also giving more spells to go along with said spell. From what I've seen of shamans, you use Shocks and 3 spells in all the trees offensively that is learned from trainers. Never giving another spell in the talent tree to throw in your rotation. I don't see Fire mages dpsing with Frostbolt or Arcane Mages using Anything other then Arcane spells, but Shamans? I see both specs using Lightning Bolt and in some cases Chain Lightning.

ty sir; This, right here, re-read that as many times as you need to, to jam it into your skull!

[Adoris]

...it needs to be dispelled instantly, because a Lava burst is bound to follow. x.x

[Deleted]

You put 2 points to increase your range and i have to put 3 points to decrease my wrath and starfire cast time as a moonkin. Whats the problem here? You get your knockback from lvl 10 spec, i get mine from a talent. Things are different like this, but in the end you will have the same goods. Every class have their own weaknesses that have to be improved via talents. (and yeah i have a shaman)

[takolin]

My mage needs to spend 3 points in pushback protection and ele gets it for free.
QQ QQ QQ

[wesssel]

I agree with one of those guys above me, I've been reading this thread and it actualy frustrates me that he doesn't even consider other classes. Like my Main a Paladin without the ret abillities they would have what?(think about that)


Yes they would have: Judgement,concecration,Exo and(big pfjew of relief But also the start of some nice Sarcasm) AUTOATTACK.
they would miss the main damage dealers namely crusaderstrike and DS and also Repentance.(that would suck)
yes the ele shammy is so UP if you look at it this way.

[Deleted]

How about you focus on your terrible mains while we focus on our class, kay? Noob Mage/DK has no idea what he's talking about.. go play your easy-mode DPS classes, let the Shaman deal with the Shaman problems, since you quit seriously playing it in Vanilla from the sound of it. (When we were more viable as a class) It seems all you do is roll FotM.

Keep your language civil here, no need for speaking like that

[Sackman]

And has that been any different since the beginning of time? No.. this is a different situation, but you seem to have a very narrow minded view on the situation. How about you focus on your terrible mains while we focus on our class, kay? Noob Mage/DK has no idea what he's talking about.. go play your easy-mode DPS classes, let the Shaman deal with the Shaman problems, since you quit seriously playing it in Vanilla from the sound of it. (When we were more viable as a class) It seems all you do is roll FotM.

Since Vanilla, the talents have been set out like this, and when Cata rolled around, we didn't get anything 'extra' to compensate for having to spec into something that no one else has to spec into anymore, we didn't get some nice clean 'exchange' for what the other classes gained. This isn't a backward compatible argument, because unless you rebalance the classes around no longer having to spec for extra range, Shaman are 2 points down, nerfed.

Try thinking a little before you spout ridiculously incorrect arguments about classes you don't play seriously.

Hate to point it out to you, but you are everything that is wrong with classes in WoW right now. People akin to you complain that one class has this and you do not, and making Blizzard have to walk down a path where they try to make you slightly happier by giving you something (a pacifier perhaps?).

If you think these classes have things you want, go and play them, personally, I like the fact that classes are different. You want your class to be the best, this is clear because your way of balancing seems to be to give everyone everything.

[Mixelphlick]

And has that been any different since the beginning of time? No.. this is a different situation, but you seem to have a very narrow minded view on the situation. How about you focus on your terrible mains while we focus on our class, kay? Noob Mage/DK has no idea what he's talking about.. go play your easy-mode DPS classes, let the Shaman deal with the Shaman problems, since you quit seriously playing it in Vanilla from the sound of it. (When we were more viable as a class) It seems all you do is roll FotM.

Since Vanilla, the talents have been set out like this, and when Cata rolled around, we didn't get anything 'extra' to compensate for having to spec into something that no one else has to spec into anymore, we didn't get some nice clean 'exchange' for what the other classes gained. This isn't a backward compatible argument, because unless you rebalance the classes around no longer having to spec for extra range, Shaman are 2 points down, nerfed.

Try thinking a little before you spout ridiculously incorrect arguments about classes you don't play seriously.

Are you serious? I read shamans were more viable in vanilla and about laughed my pants off. Did you even play vanilla? All any hybrid was was a mediocre healer IF THAT. Pali's were just buffbots and if you tried to go ele seriously before AQ you were laughed out of any raid. Im amused that you seem to think i don't know what im talking about and that something changing makes it more important. Also i have NEVER switched classes for any kind of flavor of the month. I choose what class i want to play based on its playstyle and what i want to get out of it.

Now as to your argument yes multiple of those situations have changed... and recently. Arcane previously did not have to talent into nearly as many points to make missles a viable part of their rotation. That is a cataclysm change. I say again would you rather have their position. The 2 points in your range talent get dropped and instead you ahve to drop 5 full points into making lavaburst WORTH CASTING. How bout that? Does that make you happy? Im still mystified how you can't see that there is far more to these trees than a basic 1 to 1 comparison. And that one thing not changing suddenly makes it imbalanced. You wan't me to go further? Ok totem of wrath your major party buff takes 1 point. The mage equivalent in fire critical mass takes 3. Gee those 2 extra points don't balance out with your range points do they. You could have little focused arguments like this all day that doesn't change the fact that trees need to be taken together as a whole. In the end after the numbers pass I will wager your damage will be in a better place parity wise than it is in wrath and thats what matters.

also LOL at shamans didnt get anything to rebalance the fact that they have to talent into range. wow cuz range increases damage soooo much and those points are 100% required for you to do anything. Also you just recently got an entire new system to boost your damage making several spells more important. Gee that couldn't at all have anything to do with balancing that out. Im amazed at the shear bullheaded stubbornness you show in calling me narrow-minded when im actually able to consider your spec and the changes as a whole. Also i have thought this out thats why i see far more of the argument than your one minute point that you have clung to this entire time. Please don't sink to the level of personal insult and generalization rather than actual discourse.

Edit: thank you to the other people who see what im trying to say for helping me say it in ways that i wouldn't have noticed. My personal view is mostly from a mage though i know enough to be conversant on most other classes.