So.... where was Darion in the final battle?

[unholytestament]

They didn't have to show up in the fight. Just their presence in the raid would have been enough.

Darion, Garrosh and Varian lead the forces in the initial assault at the foot of the citadel. Saurfang and Muradin capture and hold the ramparts. Tirion leads the final assault directly on the Lich King. Sylvanas and Jaina both lead a covert mission through the underbelly of the citadel. Malganis is a bitch hiding out on some Burning Legion world probably getting disciplined for having failed AGAIN.

Did I miss anyone?

[Shadowmelded]

They didn't have to show up in the fight. Just their presence in the raid would have been enough.

Most of them were, The chynn, darion, tirion, garrosh, saurfang, magni, bolvar. Ok jaina and sylvanas weren't in the actual raid but they were part of the Citadel instances.
Tbh would you really want Jaina there who would potentially go all weak on us at the last minute, eternally trying to "save" him? (sadly that's what they've reduced jaina to as a character :< some soppy trophy-sorceress) or sylvanas who could potentially be controlled by arthas again?

[gunner_recall]

I think he was leading the ground forces while Tirion was with the infiltration.

[Voltair]

I think what alot of people were getting at, is why 4 or so lore characters couldn't be a part of the fight

like the Watchers against Yoggy, I'm sure blizz could have done it

Tirion
Jaina
Sylvanas
Darion

they all could have performed some function in the fight besides tirions obvious ROFLPWN

[jinreeko]

why wasn't sylvanas, muradin, jaina, thassarian, king wrynn, mal'ganis, silvermoon people...

[Vehemence]

I think he was leading the ground forces while Tirion was with the infiltration.

Most logical reason I have seen in this forum post together with;

On a more serious note, maybe he was afraid that being closer to the LK he could be enslaved again, or Tirion advised him not to go because of what Ashbringer could cause there. Darion is undead, so he could get hurt. Another possibility is that he was ready to save the day if Tirion failed. Darion said time and time again in Icecrown and even before that not doing anything, no matter how hideous it could be, would not win the war against the Scourge.

[Geckoo]

Fun quote. You know why? Because he cannot be proven wrong. Did we defeat the Lich King? No. We removed Arthas as a vessel. Nothing more. Nothing less.

now think about what that could mean... we could at some point in the future be defending the lich king from the burning legion.

Then again, LK fight is based only in one thing: luck. He has an ability that 1 shoot's the entire raid, he don't uses it from the begining because he is a douchebag, really, all the quests that involve him in WOTLK are the kind of "i could kill you know, but... i don't want!). So yes, a fight that could be lost from the first second if the enemy wasn't so idiot is a real design failure. he deserves to be dead to be such an idiot, but we players could had a more epic fight really.

[unholytestament]

why wasn't sylvanas, muradin, jaina, thassarian, king wrynn, mal'ganis, silvermoon people...

THEY WERE.

They were busy fighting all of the other scourge in the citadel.

[Taium]

Most of them were, The chynn, darion, tirion, garrosh, saurfang, magni, bolvar. Ok jaina and sylvanas weren't in the actual raid but they were part of the Citadel instances.
Tbh would you really want Jaina there who would potentially go all weak on us at the last minute, eternally trying to "save" him? (sadly that's what they've reduced jaina to as a character :< some soppy trophy-sorceress) or sylvanas who could potentially be controlled by arthas again?

Jaina is in the raid, right after Deathbringer. She just doesn't do anything but cry.

[Shadowmelded]

Jaina is in the raid, right after Deathbringer.

Touche, my memory seems to be sucking. Wow I even refer to the scene of her breaking down in tears as blizz turning her into an emotional wreck yet don't even remember where it all happened, lol.

In my defence though I kept jumping back and forth between "in the raid" and "in the LK fight" but that's because I pretty much fail!

[jamesscalise]

I always thought that the fight against LK will be a real war... a lot of add (yes even more)... some siege machine, Tirion, Darion fighting 2vs1 againts the LK...

I think I would have preferred this a lot more.

[Jester_Joker]

Mal'Ganis, at least, could still show up. There IS still a Lich King...

[Geckoo]

THEY WERE.

They were busy fighting all of the other scourge in the citadel.

it's a nice point if we were talking about a real fortress as BT was, but not with icecrown, the place is almost empty, i know you can tell me icecrown is bigger than we see, but that's only speculation from our side, what we see is an almost empty place and we kill all of them except for maybe... 3 pulls in our way to lord manowar (manowar sounds cooler) and one of the ways leading to BQ lana'shield. Really wan't to tell me those important characters were just fighting scourge scum instead of the big foes? i don't think so.

Really, ICC is a failure in so many things... in all this time we never ever heard about putricide although he is the master mind behind the scourge abominations, the San'layn could had have so many play in the whole expansion... we never saw how did they manage to capture a green dragon, we never herad of the doorman, nor about the big cult of the damned boss. we deserved much more, hope they learn and make the whole place really cool as it should be for WoW: The Reveng of Lavaman.

[jamesscalise]

The fight would have been so super cool if ALL the lore characters were there, helping us. That would make Arthas seem like even more powerful! Darion could have been shortly mind controlled, and we would have to not really kill him, but weaken him, and keep him occupied, that way Muradin and Jaina could somehow break the control over him by either magic or distractin the Lich King.

Sylvanas would appear halfway through the fight, looking for the chance to strike Arthas when he was weakest, only to fail, but this is what actually breaks the MC over Darion.

The individual faction leader in the zone (Varian/Garrosh) would be at the head of of the raid party, assisting off a main tank. No no, that would make them seem weak, they can come in later too, rallying in troops as reinforcements. in phase 8 or something.

Saurfang would be cleaving all the undead that Arthas spawns.

This whole time, Tirion would be sparring with Arthas, neither able to land a blow.

And this is all phase 1

Now, doesn't this seem a bit more epic?

Fix'd

But yes, it does seem more epic.

---------- Post added 2010-08-22 at 10:08 PM ----------

THEY WERE.

They were busy fighting all of the other scourge in the citadel.

But is that any fun for us? I would have liked to see more active battles, maybe something like seeing the faction leaders and their forces fighting through windows and stuff.

[unholytestament]

it's a nice point if we were talking about a real fortress as BT was, but not with icecrown, the place is almost empty, i know you can tell me icecrown is bigger than we see, but that's only speculation from our side, what we see is an almost empty place and we kill all of them except for maybe... 3 pulls in our way to lord manowar (manowar sounds cooler) and one of the ways leading to BQ lana'shield. Really wan't to tell me those important characters were just fighting scourge scum instead of the big foes? i don't think so.

Right. I get it. You're one of those guys who thinks hours of trash is anything other than boring.

[Zoma]

Its because Darion doesn't have bubble. Once Arthas traps him in ice, he's done. Same for every non-paladin character that wants to kill Arthas.

[Richardplex]

San'layn were commanders of the scourge; they get their own tier in ICC, 3 are a boss with quel'derah's old wielder also a boss, bosses in Old Kingdom and Utgarde Keep. questline for the alliance involving the naxxanar one, the leader of the borean tundra scourge, they resurrect arugal as a shade, one in ZD, leading the scourge forces with Drakuru... oh, and 2 are not dead, two who where ressing arugal, including the leader of the ressing, the one on the horse. so still might be doing something there.
dreamwalker was a random green dragon in thefight against arthas, arthas captures and tries to destroy, not more needs to be said. morrogar is just a heap of bones, the lich is just a chosen member of the cult, nothing special. lootship is lootship, Putricide Arthas didn't bring outside to get killed, so who would we get info from? the abominations? the Blood Plasma vendor in Zul'drak? also, he is a futurama reference, 'nuff said :>

you whine about this. now lets take one of the favourite raids with a big lore around it, karazhan. now lets take the last boss, prince Malchezaar. lets look at his back story shall we? the last boss of a lore place of a big raid. now shall we squabble over how there isn't huge lore for all 12 bosses of a raid? :P

I think what alot of people were getting at, is why 4 or so lore characters couldn't be a part of the fight

like the Watchers against Yoggy, I'm sure blizz could have done it

Tirion
Jaina
Sylvanas
Darion

they all could have performed some function in the fight besides tirions obvious ROFLPWN

two things: 1) yes. definately. i agree.
2) i also agree. it was nothing but, a ROFLPWN.

[Jamber]

fine, it can be epic and still be 20 min, including roleplay!

-02:00-00:00 Some roleplay before the fight starts.

00:10-1:30 Darion MCed, this is an endurance test. Darion is strong and dpsing him makes him hit for less damage. He will constantly heal with strikes though, so you need to keep him below 70% or something. Get him too low, he'll activate a "cooldown" being even stronger than he was at 100%. Tirion struggles with Arthas, Jaina slows Darion down so you can kite him when he does DnD on the tank, the tank will need to move out quick and can not afford to being hit from behind. Muradin will instead help with Saufang, killing zombies that will walk to the raid. It one or two will make it's way to the raid, they and a pulsing disease aura, so should be ranged early.

01:30-01:45 Sylvanas jumps from out of nowhere with some ranger shot, I don't know which would be most in line with trying a "one-hit-kill" type move, but it will fail, only grazing Arthas, but allowing Darion to break free. At this moment, Darion understands his weakness and retreats for the time being.

01:45-80%(05:45-06:25) Arthas does his super freeze block on all lore characters (Sylvanas, Saurfang, Jaina, Muradin, Tirion), only Jaina is able to avoid it with her own ice block. Arthas then proceeds to fight Jaina, and we heroes intercept him. With him changing his mind to us (we has taunt, lawl) Jaina will nuke from the background, provide some sort of slowing or freezing at times where Arthas' abilities would hurt Perhaps also a debuff that allows Arthas to be tanked by us, since you know, he's super powerful. We can also have infest if you want (ugh, hate that in heroic so much) or something, this is just an overview. Arthas then realizes he shouldn't have focused on us, and assaults Jaina. Getting her to an inch of her life (this happened in HoR, it isn't far fetched)

80%(05:45-06:25)-50%(09:50-10:30) Muradin breaks from the ice. He's a dwarf, has frost resistant skin, lots of blubber, PLUS he was kind of the leader of the Frostborne for years(?), Muradin throws a stormhammer at Arthas, causing him to forget about Jaina. Muradin, realizing he can not take Arthas alone (or with us for that matter) shatters Saurfang's ice-block (as they were near each other before getting frozen), and they both take on Arthas. They will switch off tanking Arthas. (I should have mentioned this earlier, but you can't heal the lore characters) Arthas is un-tauntable in this phase, and the two holding him will lose health gradually. Realizing they need more help, they implore you to shatter Sylvanas' and Tirion's blocks asap...only Tirion's is still invulnerable, so you attack Sylvanas'. All the while, Arthas summons new minions your tanks have to tank, we can say the Shambling Horrors. In this time frame, you need to weaken both Arthas and Sylvanas' block before Arthas "kills" Saurfang and Muradin, cause then he'll turn to you and kill the raid. Should both objectives be done, Arthas will smack Saurfang and Muradin to an edge, then decide to do his aoe frost thing, and the raid has to move to the edge as well

50%(09:50-10:30)-50%(10:35-11:15) He'll pulse his frost, and have raging spirits on us. Just but 30 seconds into the aoe, Sylvanas breaks lose and starts raining hell on Arthas with arrows. Arthas gets angry, and decides to shatter the outer edges. We have to pick up Jaina, Muradin and Saurfang (Saurfang will need 2 people to carry, but only the first person who clicked him would control movement) and move them into the inner circle in a 10 second window frame. Should one of them fall, you don't wipe, you just get less help in the last 10% (20%-10%, 10%-0 will be the "epic win phase"). They wouldn't die from falling, they'd have some sort of plot device saving them.

50%(10:35-11:15)-30%(14:10-14:45) Sylvanas goes crazy on Arthas, and refuses to determine friend or foe. She attacks Arthas, and Arthas, knowing he's not as agile as she, resorts to summoning jumping ghouls and shooting shadow energy at her, so he's standing still. They raid will have to move based on where Sylvanas stands, as she doesn't care if you get in her way, and her arrows will hit raid members if they are in between Sylvanas and Arthas. She'll move every 25 seconds, to one of 5 locations. every minute, Arthas will also summon valk'yr to take care of the raid. The valk'yr will resurrect any ghoul killed in this phase (And ghouls will be killed) into stronger ones. There will be three types. One that does not have aggro and attacks fast. One that warstomps where it's standing every 10 seconds, and a casting ranged one. You need to kill the ghouls and the valk'yr, because if you don't kill the valk'yr, they will start stacking and resurrecting ghouls faster, and will distract the raid from Arthas, and if you don't get him to 30% before Sylvanas is nearly killed, you'll wipe. When Arthas hits 30%, He'll get mad and hit Sylvanas hard, she'll drop to her knees, only able to fire one more arrow, permanently weakening Arthas' output melee swings, enough to us players could tank him. Sylvanas then collapses. Arthas then freezes the entire raid.

30%(14:10-14:45)-30%(14:45-15:20) Arthas begins to gloat about his victory, how all the heroes have "fallen" and he's about to finish the job, when suddenly, the Sky-breaker and Orgrim's Hammer appear. On them are Varian and Garrosh, respectively, with a small army of alliance and Horde Soldiers. Darion also has returned, being the one who had sent for reinforcements. The armies run out on the the ground, and Arthas gets angry at out "insolence" or whatever you'd want him to say, and summons a real Army of the Dead from the ground. Enough to outnumber the combined horde and alliance 2:1 (not counting the raid). They start to attack, and Varian and Garrosh start rushing to Arthas, only to start bickering about who will be allowed to fight him, throwing insults, Arthas takes this advantage and charges them. Saurfang and Jaina are quick enough to warn them of the incoming enemy and they start to fight him.

30%(14:45-15:20)-20%(16:00-16:35)At this point, we are no longer our own players (We're still stuck in the ice) but we play as our respective faction forces killing zombies. We have to still be careful of aoe's from Arthas, as if we lose too many reinforcements, the zombies will overwhelm us, kill all the soldiers, and then beat Varian and Garrosh before they can take him to 20%. The soldiers will have various abilities, perhaps some heal, some melee, some range, whatever. At 20% Arthas calls upon all his remaining power and knocks back Garrosh and Varian to the edge, where Saurfang, Jaina, Muradin, and Sylvanas have slightly recovered, and Darion is back once more (Unable to be MCed by the now super weak Arthas).

20%(16:00-16:35)-10%(18:00-18:35) Arthas runs head on at the heroes now, picking one at random every 10 seconds. The heroes are weak, and we need their dps now, Arthas now only takes 40%, some Icebound fortitude thing or something. We raiders break free from the ice, now that Arthas has focused all energy on his shield. We have to taunt tank Arthas from the heroes to prevent them from dying. Also, every 20 seconds, Arthas will pick a raid member at random to be sucked into Frostmourne, he needs more souls for more power. Similar mechanics can occur in there as does in live.

10%(18:00-18:35)-10%(19:30-20:05)When we get Arthas to 10%, he does the ultimate mega attack as now, killing everyone, even the lore characters, and says he never thought they'd be this much trouble, yada yada, but now he has the most ultimate army ever. Starts trying to resurrect everyone as a zombie. But, wait, Tirion is still in the iceblock...and he does his super jump and breaks Frostmourne like in live, Teneras Brings everyone to life (slighty weakened, as you'll see why in a little bit)

10%(19:30-20:05)-DEAD We all attack Arthas, he says his little stuff and falls to the ground, seemingly dead, there's the cinematic, only this time, it shows all the lore characters, and how they say something, about Arthas, only, he isn't completly dead yet, but they don't know. They then say they must head back to Northrend to bring the good news, tend to their wounds, whatever. after they are gone, Tirion then walks up to Arthas and says something, then he whispers his last words, Teneras tells Tirion the same thing as live, and just as he's gonna put the helmet on, Bolvar, who in this re-enactment, was out of sight from the rest of the lore characters behind a wall of ice, that only broke when Arthas breathed his last breath, says what is in live to Tirion.

WELL, was a little longer then a hoped, but you gotta admit, it would be cool...well, I think it would...

[Zoma]

*Wall of epic text*

Two questions

What about Hardmode?

The other lore figures know Bolvar is alive from the first trash pull of the raid. Wouldn't they either save him or, thinking he is dead, want to take his remains back to Stormwind?

Edit: Just reread the out-of-sight-behind-ice-wall part, but wouldn't they still look for him?

[Tyirr]

^ blizzard, hire this man please, the guy who posted his version of the fight, another post got in before me.
that sounds like the epic fight the Lich King should have been, not the crap we have now on live where Tirion with the Ashbringer gets locked down instantly and the Lich king is killed by 10/25 non-lore heroes and everyone who had a grudge with him was just chilling waiting for the good news.

One idea I was thinking of, rather than have Tirion break out of the ice at the last minute (seriously? why doesn't he pull out all the stops earlier?), would be to have Bolvar have a Sampson-esque moment (Sampson was the guy in the bible who called out for 1 last favor and pulled the 2 towers down right?) and yell out to the light for strength, and break his chains that had him suspended, and use the heat from the fire on his body to break Tirion out, and then Tirion proceeds to roflstomp frostmourne and regular events ensue.