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  1. #1

    Lightwell thread to end them all!

    Seems we have a somewhat definite answer on Lightwell:

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Lightwell
    How to make lightwell work: Change clicking range to 15y, Make clicking it not change target
    As I have said previously, this is the plan. We just haven't been able to test it yet, and the talent has enough baggage that it's hard to get players to even try it. (Source)
    Seems decent enough. 15 Yard range, and no target change on click. Perhaps people will actually use it now?

    Should they change Lightwell to work more like the mob's Lighwell in ToC 5 man, I'd be happier.
    People that bring this up will be banned under "Forbidden Topics" --Kelesti
    Last edited by Kelesti; 2010-08-24 at 07:21 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Precursor View Post
    "Fall of therzane....." ....um what? if that woman fell , god help us it will be the second cataclysm
    Words that lots of people don't seem to know the definition of:
    "Troll", "Rehash", "Casual", "Dead", "Dying", "Exploit".

  2. #2
    If the threat of healers going OOM in Cataclysm is very real as Blizzard wants it to be, then making the raid learn to use Lightwell responsibly seems pretty important to me.

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  3. #3
    Please, with a game where dps stand in the fire purposely so they don't hurt their dps, I'm pretty sure dps won't be willing to spend their precious 2 button spaming time to click on the well. >_<

  4. #4
    Honestly should just be taken out. Like Herecius said, ppl can't even pay attention enough to move out of a fire.... what makes you think they'll pay attention to Lightwell. DPS having to heal himself? ABSURD!.....
    Check out what I'm selling in ESO HERE!

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  5. #5
    Herald of the Titans
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    Bah...if we click and can't target it, can you target it at all? If not, then I can't make an awesome macro to spam heals for myself =/.

  6. #6
    The Patient Marraphy's Avatar
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    It's a step in the right direction. I think it also needs a bigger, more noticeable graphic, and perhaps a cursor change on mouseover so people can see it and are reminded to click it
    85 Priest/72 Druid/85 Mage/24 Shaman/56 Paladin

  7. #7
    Herald of the Titans Eliot123's Avatar
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    Or they could just change the damn thing to Fountain of Light like the priests in ToC 5-man (what a slap in ze face that was -.-') have and rid us all of its misery. I don't know, it's just that something tells me that even if the Lightwelll was as big as Festergut with loud sound warnings and lights of all colours standing directly in front of the DPS blocking their whole screen, they still wouldn't even register it, let alone actually click it.
    When in a hole, keep digging!

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by greevir View Post
    Honestly should just be taken out. Like Herecius said, ppl can't even pay attention enough to move out of a fire.... what makes you think they'll pay attention to Lightwell. DPS having to heal himself? ABSURD!.....
    I didn't say this. I said that making the raid learn to use Lightwell responsibly in order to help healers in Cataclysm from going OOM was a good thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by videogamerpat View Post
    Please, with a game where dps stand in the fire purposely so they don't hurt their dps, I'm pretty sure dps won't be willing to spend their precious 2 button spaming time to click on the well. >_<
    It is not the fault of Blizzard that some players (specifically those you're apparently playing with) are tunnel visioning and generally bad.

    ---------- Post added 2010-08-22 at 10:33 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Eliot123 View Post
    Or they could just change the damn thing to Fountain of Light like the priests in ToC 5-man (what a slap in ze face that was -.-') have and rid us all of its misery. I don't know, it's just that something tells me that even if the Lightwelll was as big as Festergut with loud sound warnings and lights of all colours standing directly in front of the DPS blocking their whole screen, they still wouldn't even register it, let alone actually click it.
    I believe Blizz said they didn't like this idea because that essentially just makes it a HOT with a fancy lightshow effect.

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  9. #9
    Brewmaster Lustinus's Avatar
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    People won't use it, I'm sure of that. NO ONE will pay attention, or even search a little well next to a priest. Seriously, lightwell MUST be removed.

  10. #10
    What if every time you clicked it you got a stack of bananas in addition to the heal.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Lustinus View Post
    People won't use it, I'm sure of that. NO ONE will pay attention, or even search a little well next to a priest. Seriously, lightwell MUST be removed.
    Again, the problem with Lightwell that kept GOOD players from using it is the fact that it changed your target. It was inconvenient and very awkward to use. Removing this mechanic would allow GOOD players to use it responsibly. For example, on Festergut, a priest could drop a lightwell into the middle of a cluster, and then right before he does his explosion (this being before the 30% buff to health made it trivial anyways), everybody in that cluster could hit the Lightwell for a HOT that would help the healers top everybody off immedietely. But since Festergut was also a DPS race (that was, again, not quite as trivial without the 30% buff), having a bunch of people fuck up their targeting and possibly boss debuffs makes less sense than just making the healers work overtime, especially when there was no threat of the healers ever going OOM in WotLK, which will change in Cataclysm with healers having to watch mana much more carefully.

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  12. #12
    If people don't want to click the lightwell just life grip them to it screw with their DPS until they learn how to (oh how fun life grip will be :P ).

  13. #13
    Herald of the Titans Eliot123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jigawatts View Post
    If people don't want to click the lightwell just life grip them to it screw with their DPS until they learn how to (oh how fun life grip will be :P ).
    Hell yeah! WTB a glyph that would allow me to fear my own raid/group members! ''You don't like Lightwell? Then I don't like you! /cast Psychic scream''.
    When in a hole, keep digging!

  14. #14
    High Overlord Grouchi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius View Post
    If the threat of healers going OOM in Cataclysm is very real as Blizzard wants it to be, then making the raid learn to use Lightwell responsibly seems pretty important to me.
    Here is the heart of the problem. Let me explain.

    Blizzard is trying to balance healers to that extent that no healer, or healer setup, is obligational to any particular fight. So all healer setups from, Pala-Sham-Durid / Druid-Sham-Priest / Sham-Priest-Pala etc. is viable to some means on every boss fight. So why bring a Holy Priest when one of their healing potential is crippled by an ackward game mechanic, which in and of it self is replacable(by bringing an equally good Druid, Shaman).

    Let me put it in numbers. Every class let's say has the base spells in which increases it's healing output. Should you remove one of it's spells it should obviously lose some of the healing potential it originally had.

    Priest - Other spells 90% + Lightwell 10% = 100%
    Druid - Other spells 90% + Lifebloom 10% = 100%
    etc.

    So, why not bring a Druid(or Shaman, Paladin) who can reach this optimal 100% healing output - whilst keeping that ackward-nobody-likes-mechanic where it belongs, in some major afkcity. That is sadly what might happen in Cataclysm OR nobody bothers using a wasted talent.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Jigawatts View Post
    If people don't want to click the lightwell just life grip them to it screw with their DPS until they learn how to (oh how fun life grip will be :P ).
    I love you, this is the best idea I have heard for fixing it. We finally get the ability to slap people for being twats!

    edit: To the post above, Holy is not going to lose out on healing ability just because they have the ability to spec into Lightwell. They don't balance the healing your class or spec can do around a single optional talent, especially one on a three-minute cooldown.
    Last edited by Abandon; 2010-08-23 at 11:48 AM.

  16. #16
    Glyph of Lightwell:

    Lightwell now taunts nearby party/raidmembers with less than 40% life and within 40 yards range for 20 seconds or untill they click the lightwell.

    Fixed !

    Apart from when the lightwell taunts an unsuspecting tank so he turns the back on the boss ^^

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Grouchi View Post
    Here is the heart of the problem. Let me explain.

    Blizzard is trying to balance healers to that extent that no healer, or healer setup, is obligational to any particular fight. So all healer setups from, Pala-Sham-Durid / Druid-Sham-Priest / Sham-Priest-Pala etc. is viable to some means on every boss fight. So why bring a Holy Priest when one of their healing potential is crippled by an ackward game mechanic, which in and of it self is replacable(by bringing an equally good Druid, Shaman).

    Let me put it in numbers. Every class let's say has the base spells in which increases it's healing output. Should you remove one of it's spells it should obviously lose some of the healing potential it originally had.

    Priest - Other spells 90% + Lightwell 10% = 100%
    Druid - Other spells 90% + Lifebloom 10% = 100%
    etc.

    So, why not bring a Druid(or Shaman, Paladin) who can reach this optimal 100% healing output - whilst keeping that ackward-nobody-likes-mechanic where it belongs, in some major afkcity. That is sadly what might happen in Cataclysm OR nobody bothers using a wasted talent.
    I don't remember reading anywhere that Lightwell was required to get 100% healing output, I also don't remember Blizzard saying they wanted healing to be all about throughput. In fact I remember them saying something about sometimes occasionally throwing damaging spells, and using the right heal at the right time (efficiency more than throughput).

    Lightwell is an awesome spell, just people who play the game are unfortunately more often than not, too damn lazy, or too damn stupid to appreciate it. These changes are good, as Herecius has said, drop it down in a fight like Fester where if mana was a problem could be a very interesting fight, and Lightwell becomes very awesome.

    Situational abilities do not account for throughput, and neither is throughput an important consideration when considering situation. That's the fundamental flaw of theorycrafting.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Sackman View Post
    I don't remember reading anywhere that Lightwell was required to get 100% healing output, I also don't remember Blizzard saying they wanted healing to be all about throughput. In fact I remember them saying something about sometimes occasionally throwing damaging spells, and using the right heal at the right time (efficiency more than throughput).

    Lightwell is an awesome spell, just people who play the game are unfortunately more often than not, too damn lazy, or too damn stupid to appreciate it. These changes are good, as Herecius has said, drop it down in a fight like Fester where if mana was a problem could be a very interesting fight, and Lightwell becomes very awesome.

    Situational abilities do not account for throughput, and neither is throughput an important consideration when considering situation. That's the fundamental flaw of theorycrafting.
    His example actually covers every aspect whether it be throughput or efficiency, if Lightwell is a part of our repertoire Blizzard surely will counter it when balancing out the holy priest spec, but where we need people to actively use our lightwell to be efficient (or for throughput) other classes/specs have spells they fully control the effect of, and thus his question still stands.

    If holy priests forces the raid to use time/awareness/whatever on our Lightwell, wouldn't everyone just be better off with a different healer type ? Healing spells you as the healer not are in control of are flawed because of the unreliability/reliability on other people. Will good people use it ? Maybe, properly. Though it will still be an inconvenience, and the other problem is that encounters with good people seem rarer and rarer for each passing day.

  19. #19
    I agree with Herecius the problem is not with the spell itself, although removing the need to change target will improve it, but the way in which the raid uses the machanic. If the raid learns to use it correctly then it could prove a helpful tool in mana conservation.

    Good players will learn to adapt to this change and it will help the raid other will just keep spamming their button and if they die blame the healers, rather then taking some reasonability for staying alive.

  20. #20
    Bloodsail Admiral nevermore's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure Holy Priests are balanced without taking Lightwell into consideration. Our spells won't heal "a little bit less" compared to, say, Druids because we have Lightwell. It's a bonus situational ability, not a mandatory part of our output-balance.

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