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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    It's 0 DPS loss, maybe a split second for melee DPS because they will lose an auto attack because it switches targets (which is fixed in expansion) Second, having raided as DPS, DPS is probably the least attention roll you can play in most fights, which is why it pisses me off when they face roll and due stupid things like stand in Mally GOO. And I don't know about you, but the only time I have even hit enrage timers in any WOTLK raid was due to DPS being DEAD not lack thereof.



    Have you even used light well because this just sounds ignorant, no offense. Bandage better than Lightwell?

    ---------- Post added 2010-08-25 at 12:56 PM ----------

    One last thing I will scream it again, I don't really care if DPS even clicks my light well because in fights where it is useful, it's useful for me and I tend to use up all the charges before it's even up. Did you know on sindragosa you can use it to heal and not take an unchained magic charge? Pretty damn handy in Heroic P3, not to mention you can click it while iceblocked to heal yourself

    It's a situational spell but The damn spell is OP when the situation arises
    Again though, if we're talking about smart dps here who won't take unnecessary raid damage then they're very unlikely to die just because they don't go activate the lightwell. Sure it's a minor dps loss, but again it's all about maximizing yourself in a raid, and when the healers can more than easily heal up dps that are smart then lightwell is completely useless. There's a reason you don't see lightwell used in first kill videos, because dps are maximizing their dps while healers are keeping people up because they know how to. It's not about being dumb and not doing something to keep yourself alive, it's about using the abilities you have to their potential to maximize the chances of downing the boss. Taking the time to use lightwell negates it's effectiveness in raid progression encounters and was my entire point.

    The point is, the ability is hindered useless when healers and dps and tanks are doing their jobs correctly. It needs to be changed so it's not situational and is useful for people to drop in a raid. Again, I'm not talking about dealing with players who don't know how to maximize themselves, I'm talking about in world first progression situations where the ability is completely useless and that's the primary issue with the ability, and not the fact that it's useful in some situations because your raid isn't optimal.

    Again, don't bring up the BS of bad dps/healers because that's not what I'm talking about and is completely irrelevant to the conversation. The current spell is useless to the majority of end game progression raiders and needs to be changed accordingly.

  2. #82
    i'd like to see lightwell baseline for all priests, make it only castable in combat so shadowpriests have to shift if they wish to use it, i think it dies easy enough if in pvp (i guess it has more hp than a totem, but thats still 1 gcd/swing), so it wouldnt be overpowered. and give holy points that improve it combined with improved renew talents.
    the more common it becomes, the faster raid learns to use it imo, even if the disc/shadow version would be relatively weaker.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by CodeMonkey View Post
    i'd like to see lightwell baseline for all priests, make it only castable in combat so shadowpriests have to shift if they wish to use it, i think it dies easy enough if in pvp (i guess it has more hp than a totem, but thats still 1 gcd/swing), so it wouldnt be overpowered. and give holy points that improve it combined with improved renew talents.
    the more common it becomes, the faster raid learns to use it imo, even if the disc/shadow version would be relatively weaker.
    I actually like this idea more then anything I've seen so far in the past 3-4 years of this topic being around.

    Personally I'm in the band wagon of "I don't want to need other people to be smart to make me an effective healer" it just shouldn't be that way. I've had a Holy Priest main since Kara and been off and on user of LW and sometimes it's been fantastic sometimes it just a pile of shit personally I think it would be a lot easier if they just removed it from the game and let us focus on one of our other 9 healing spells we already use.

  4. #84
    unless they replace it with a cd healing pet which we would control to manually apply a hot and/or other fancy tricks (aggro reduction buff, shield-based spell, small aoe heal, etc.?). ofc they'd then have to put a cd with fiend like shammy elementals so that we won't use one right after another.

  5. #85
    I take lightwell because there is really not any better talent to take anyways. I might be the only one to actually use it but hey, at least it helps a bit...... sometimes ... I hope!

  6. #86
    I've always liked lightwell. And I have a high respect for priests that actually drop one in raid (it takes balls, evidently). It would be nice too see (less tunnel visioning) them dropped more often.
    So, to you priests that still use lightwell, good! There are some of us who still appreciate them.

  7. #87
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    I notice that almost all arguments about Lightwell focus on the DPS players in a group. Please forget everybody else for just a second and lets focus on the spell itself, from the Priests perspective.

    Lightwell:
    ~Variable heal. Could heal for 80,000 .. could heal for zero (0).
    ~Situational dependant. Has the potential to be negated if not dropped properly, mix this in with a cool down and you have one shot to get it right or waste it completely.
    ~Non Active. Once you cast it you forget about it, no further action is required on your part other than you sit and hope it gets used right.
    ~Non Permanent. This heal doesn't sit on your interface, it sits in the gaming world which means a mob being tanked in the wrong place has the chance to block it off completely. It could be fully functioning and have all of its charges but nobody can get to it.

    I could list out a few more but I think we all get the point. If there was a health pot that granted 1-25,000 health back, as great as it may sound it wouldn't be that popular cause it has that chance at failure. It would be unreliable. You don't want to be close to downing a boss when the crap hits the fan, only have this health potion proc for 20 health and cause the wipe.

    Bottom line - Lightwell is a variable heal that is completely out of our control. I don't like rolling the dice and hoping I win, I like winning because I made the right decision at the right time, not because RNG said I win. I prefer to be in control of my heals. No matter how many buffs you give it, no matter how much you argue that the DPS sucks cause they aren't doing it right, it still takes my personal skill out of the equation.
    Last edited by Nayt; 2010-08-26 at 03:30 PM. Reason: Huurrrrrrrr!

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by sicness View Post
    Again though, if we're talking about smart dps here who won't take unnecessary raid damage then they're very unlikely to die just because they don't go activate the lightwell. Sure it's a minor dps loss, but again it's all about maximizing yourself in a raid, and when the healers can more than easily heal up dps that are smart then lightwell is completely useless. There's a reason you don't see lightwell used in first kill videos, because dps are maximizing their dps while healers are keeping people up because they know how to. It's not about being dumb and not doing something to keep yourself alive, it's about using the abilities you have to their potential to maximize the chances of downing the boss. Taking the time to use lightwell negates it's effectiveness in raid progression encounters and was my entire point.
    Again, its 0 dps to click lightwell and I don't know if you raided when WoW first launched but DPS could do everything right and still die because people simply didn't have the gear to keep everyone alive. I remember it was required for DPS to have max bandage skills. The reason I bring this up because I Believe this is what blizzard is trying to get back too, back then you could tell a bad healer from a great healer, now it's just who ever stacks the most haste and plays whack a mole

    The point is, the ability is hindered useless when healers and dps and tanks are doing their jobs correctly.
    That's a blanket statement that's not even true.

    It needs to be changed so it's not situational and is useful for people to drop in a raid.
    There are other healer talents out there that can be considered situational, again when the situation arises where LW is useful it's pretty OP as is now. Hell in Theory CoH is situational, did you spam CoH during patchwerk?


    Personally I think anyone who has never even used LW in a raid setting really has no valid opinion in this thread because you're doing nothing by playing Theorycraft.
    Last edited by zenkai; 2010-08-26 at 06:35 PM.

  9. #89
    The Patient Nayt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    Personally I think anyone who has never even used LW in a raid setting really has no valid opinion in this thread because you're doing nothing by playing Theorycraft.
    That's a rather bold statement, considering we are all here discussing what LW either could or could not be. Since Cata isn't live yet then everything we are doing here is theorycraft, and in case you didn't know, theorycraft isn't useless.

    I have spec'd into LW before and found that it was nothing other than a self heal that would be off my global CD. As a spell though it just isn't fun for me. I think about COH & POH before I cast them; where is my primary target? are they surrounded by other players who could use a heal? Depending on how these questions are answered tells me if I'm going to cast COH/POH. Is there going to be incoming AE damage? If yes than POM is perfect. Constant damage on a few select targets? Renew. Big spike damage? FH with Serendipity & GH. You get the hint, there's a thought process behind it all.

    With LW it never matters what the thought process is, cause in the end you aren't the one directing the heals. Even if you give it a 100 yard radius so people can click it from anywhere, once you drop it your done, and whether it gets used up by the douche with full health or timed perfectly by the tank to mitigate a crushing blow is a total crap chute.

    High Risk with High Rewards = Crap in the healing world. I need to know that I can keep my tank alive, not sit here and hope that my ability does what I want it to this time.

  10. #90
    Having a self heal that you can click to keep yourself alive in order to keep focusing your GCD on the tank and or raids is not worth the 1 measly talent point? I guess you never heal yourself, you rely on other healers to keep you alive. My statement isn't bold but fact, to many people have not even used LW in raid fights to even understand how powerful this spell is. It like watching someone who never cooked to teach other people how to cook.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    Having a self heal that you can click to keep yourself alive in order to keep focusing your GCD on the tank and or raids is not worth the 1 measly talent point? I guess you never heal yourself, you rely on other healers to keep you alive. My statement isn't bold but fact, to many people have not even used LW in raid fights to even understand how powerful this spell is. It like watching someone who never cooked to teach other people how to cook.
    The spell you are describing is called binding heal. It's perfect for the job, and most of all, it's free of charge in terms of talent points.

    --

    Sorry for being cocky here, but really - Lightwell doesn't fill a role anywhere, and despite being awesome in theory, just isn't worth the hassle in practice.
    I specc lightwell. As you say, it's only a point, and it only cost me 1% HPS to do so. And every time I cast it, I also macro a /yell, telling people about the wonders of lightwell:

    Lightwell Fact: You can click lightwell while casting
    Lightwell Fact: Lightwell heals for over nine thousand!
    Lightwell Fact: Lightwell taught Chuck Norris his roundhouse kick
    Lightwell Fact: Hunter pets may consume lightwell, restoring three million happiness.
    Lightwell Fact: If I was a druid, you would get your healing automatically, but since I'm not, you have to work for it
    Lightwell Fact: There are lvl one n00bs are running around naked. Conserve cloth by using a lightwell instead of a bandage.


    It doesn't really help. But it does increase the raid morale by around 5% every time I come up with a new fact. As such, it's worth the talent point. But it isn't really a talent that has made a remote difference, ever. The only place I truly truly needed lightwell to save me - Kel'Thuzad ice block traps - it broke on damage, and I died. I haven't taken the spell seriously since.

    (Disclaimer: Lightwell Fact idea taken from the official forums. Not mine originally)
    Last edited by Danner; 2010-08-27 at 03:45 PM.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Danner View Post
    The spell you are describing is called binding heal. It's perfect for the job, and most of all, it's free of charge in terms of talent points.
    Because as a Holy priest why would I waist time time casting PoM, CoH, Renew on the raid when I can simply spam Binding heal to overheal periodical dmg and keep myself alive? and that one talent point omg it's dire need I mean if I didn't use that last talent poin in "x" talent that really lowers my healing out put. Compared to LW, BH is a POS, my 1 tick, THATs ONE TICK of my LW almost heals as much as 1 binding heal, and it has 0 cast time and uses no GCD.

    I am not trying to be an ass folks but so many people are posting ignorant things about lightwell, which makes me think most of you don't even understand it's mechanics or have used it in a raid, or at least properly in a raid.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    Because as a Holy priest why would I waist time time casting PoM, CoH, Renew on the raid when I can simply spam Binding heal to overheal periodical dmg and keep myself alive? and that one talent point omg it's dire need I mean if I didn't use that last talent poin in "x" talent that really lowers my healing out put. Compared to LW, BH is a POS, my 1 tick, THATs ONE TICK of my LW almost heals as much as 1 binding heal, and it has 0 cast time and uses no GCD.

    I am not trying to be an ass folks but so many people are posting ignorant things about lightwell, which makes me think most of you don't even understand it's mechanics or have used it in a raid, or at least properly in a raid.
    Not trying to be an ass either, and any criticism is not directed at you. It's the fault of the spell, really.

    But the argument was that the GCD was vital for healing the tank. Cue Binding Heal. It's not about spamming it, any more than you spamclick a lightwell. It's about Binding Heal covering the niche that self-lightwell offers. If you really need 3.5k healing every second, then maaybe it's better to move out of the fire (and cast Desperate Prayer while you're moving).

  14. #94

    pvp lightwell

    make lightwell inmune to dmg bcuz in pvp sucks, 1 melee hit and gone -.-

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    Again, its 0 dps to click lightwell and I don't know if you raided when WoW first launched but DPS could do everything right and still die because people simply didn't have the gear to keep everyone alive. I remember it was required for DPS to have max bandage skills. The reason I bring this up because I Believe this is what blizzard is trying to get back too, back then you could tell a bad healer from a great healer, now it's just who ever stacks the most haste and plays whack a mole



    That's a blanket statement that's not even true.



    There are other healer talents out there that can be considered situational, again when the situation arises where LW is useful it's pretty OP as is now. Hell in Theory CoH is situational, did you spam CoH during patchwerk?


    Personally I think anyone who has never even used LW in a raid setting really has no valid opinion in this thread because you're doing nothing by playing Theorycraft.
    Except it's not a blanket statement because it IS true. When healers and dps do their jobs correctly and take minimal raid damage (which is part of their jobs) then it's a completely useless ability. Healers have no issue keeping people alive when they take designed incoming damage that's predictable for the encounters. When dps start taking unnecessary raid damage is when healing becomes an issue, not when the raid is taking predictable damage.

    This spell is so situational and useless that I can't recall a time, if at all, I've seen it used in any world first kill video. Explain that to me then if it's a valid spell in an optimal environment. Just because it's useful in an non-optimal environment doesn't make it a useful spell. And in high end raid settings that's why it isn't used, there are better options.

  16. #96
    The Patient Datub's Avatar
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    it would be cool if you can make a /use lightwell macro
    when i die ... i won't drop any loot mwhahahaha

  17. #97
    Lightwell- 1 Minute Cooldown

    Summons a Holy Lightwell. Group and raid members can click the Lightwell to gain Lightwell Regeneration, restoring X to Y health every 3 seconds for 30 seconds. (heals about half as much per tick as Renew). Lasts for 30 seconds, 10 charges. If the Lightwell expires without being fully drained, the Lightwell grants half its remaining charges to the nearest party or raid members before disappearing.

    Prayer of Healing- no cooldown
    Heals the target for X to Y. If the target is under the effect of Lightwell Regeneration, instead heals all group or raid members under the effect of Lightwell Regeneration for X to Y. Healing is reduced when affecting a large number of targets (in the same way as the AoE cap)

    That's what I think would solve Lightwell- the best way to use it is to click it, but if you don't it still works (just less effective). Also handles PoH hitting groups, which they don't want to matter any more.

  18. #98
    What if they changed lightwell that if you click it you get a "spark of the lightwell" in your inventory. Everytime you click the spark and are close enough to the lightwell you get a heal. So its more like a healtstone with multiple charges and a requirement to be close to a specific place.

  19. #99
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    Lightwell Fact: If I was a druid, you would get your healing automatically, but since I'm not, you have to work for it
    When will people finally stop repeating this nonsense?

    Players don't "have to work" for their heals. Holy Priests heal just as well as any other healer, they're not balanced around Lightwell heals.
    Lightwell is a situational bonus.

    In case it's too difficult to understand, I'll repeat it:

    Lightwell is a situational bonus.

    People are thick aren't they.

  20. #100
    Having played a priest since early BC, I think there were a few issues with lightwell, some of which have now been resolved.
    - target switching
    - you'd probably get healed up anyway from another healer in a raid
    - range
    - loss of dps

    I'm not in beta (curse you blizzard). But I have played a few hours on a friend's beta account. I don't think there's enough healing peril for dps to really need to bandage or use lightwell in a raid setting even in beta. Blizzard's stated philosophy is that you're trying to keep everyone above zero rather than everyone topped off in wotlk. While it is a lot harder to heal in the beta than in LK, it's not like everyone isn't topped off a good portion of the time.

    To make dps really use lightwell, we'd need to take care of target switching (done), really crank up the healing difficulty so dps can't expect a heal within the next few seconds, increase range (30 yds sounds good, preferably macroable). If all of those conditions are met, then good dps will use lightwell. In order to make your average dps use lightwell, it would have to give a dps buff. I'm not really sure if it's practical to make healing that difficult though, since there's a decent chance the raid won't have a holy priest. I suggest the following.

    Lightwell: (30 yds) Heals you for 10k + 100% intellect over 3 seconds. Can only click lightwell once every 8 seconds. 10 charges. Your damage is increased by 20% of the amount healed for the next 5 melee swings or physical ranged attacks.

    So if the lightwell heals a melee dps for 15K (not overhealed), that dps would get 3K extra damage on each of his next 5 white hits. Distributing it over multiple hits would prevent huge burst in pvp, whereas it's still a nice little buff for melee dps
    Last edited by afterspark; 2010-08-28 at 06:53 PM.

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