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  1. #41
    Pit Lord Eliot123's Avatar
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    How about this - add the effect of weapon ''Trauma'' (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=71864/f...light#comments) to the Lightwell HoT (with a slightly increased proc chance, e.g. 10%). This way it wouldn't be ''cast and forget about it'' spell because people would still have to click it, and to actually motivate them more to use it - they might heal others. Just a thought. =P
    Hello hello dps are you there? On Recount I don't see a thing, main tank has the healing debuff from the boss you see you see;
    Wha-a-at did you say? Vent is breaking up on me, sorry I can't talk now I am kinda healing; K-kinda healing, k-kinda healing...

  2. #42
    it's bliz's fault for being stubborn and not removing lolwell while at most 5% (and i'm pretty sure it's less than that since most use the cookie-cutter builds) of holy priests barely use it once or twice a week.

    since it's been out, they've greatly improved its scaling which is a good thing (the only good thing in lolwell actually) but it's always sucked because of its mechanic which requires people to :
    -look for it if there's one (provided they're not focused enough on they dps cycle to notice it)
    -get into range if needed
    -click on it

    why would they bother doing all this when at least 1-2 out of 4 other healers are already casting their aoe heals to top them off?
    even if we're in a group and you're the only healer, are you gonna let everyone get under 20% hp so they start looking for your lolwell?
    if your mates die because you didn't want (meaning you had the mana to do it) to heal them because lolwell was up, you fail as a healer, that's how things are.

    since they already told they didn't want to make lolwell work like ToC's lightwell and didn't want it to be a cast & forget ability, that leaves some possibilities :
    1-they keep the mechanic as it is, unless forced to spec into it i hardly see more people using it
    2-they make it a HoT equivalent of lock's soulwell, that could be more attractive since people could then use it any time they want/can to get their lolwell conjured item in combat and use it later when they actually need to
    3-give it a limited aura which would enhance some ability/bonus to the priest healing, something like spreading 10-15% of your direct heals made to a target inside the aura to the other friendly targets? (ie 10k heal on main target -> 1k to people inside well's aura)

  3. #43
    The Patient Madam's Avatar
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    We need to be careful or Blizz may toss in a boss fight we need to use it on, remember MC in Naxx? lol

    On my server I have seen some very well geared Priests using LW, would be nice to hear from a few that have this spec and raid H ICC. What fights, placement...that kind of thing. IF we are going to be tight on mana come Cata is this something we should get comfortable with now?

  4. #44
    Pit Lord Eliot123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sacrypheyes View Post
    it's bliz's fault for being stubborn and not removing lolwell while at most 5% (and i'm pretty sure it's less than that since most use the cookie-cutter builds) of holy priests barely use it once or twice a week.

    why would they bother doing all this when at least 1-2 out of 4 other healers are already casting their aoe heals to top them off?
    even if we're in a group and you're the only healer, are you gonna let everyone get under 20% hp so they start looking for your lolwell?
    if your mates die because you didn't want (meaning you had the mana to do it) to heal them because lolwell was up, you fail as a healer, that's how things are.
    I agree. I think Blizzard has to... sell Lightwell better. Personally, I don't think that getting just a hot (yes yes (one of the) best hot in game, whatever) from it is enough. :/
    Hello hello dps are you there? On Recount I don't see a thing, main tank has the healing debuff from the boss you see you see;
    Wha-a-at did you say? Vent is breaking up on me, sorry I can't talk now I am kinda healing; K-kinda healing, k-kinda healing...

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Eliot123 View Post
    I agree. I think Blizzard has to... sell Lightwell better. Personally, I don't think that getting just a hot (yes yes (one of the) best hot in game, whatever) from it is enough. :/
    Getting a 5k / 2sec HoT isn't "enough"? A 15k healthstone isn't "enough"? What IS "enough"?
    Quote Originally Posted by Precursor View Post
    "Fall of therzane....." ....um what? if that woman fell , god help us it will be the second cataclysm
    Words that lots of people don't seem to know the definition of:
    "Troll", "Rehash", "Casual", "Dead", "Dying", "Exploit".

  6. #46
    Pit Lord Eliot123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vook View Post
    Getting a 5k / 2sec HoT isn't "enough"? A 15k healthstone isn't "enough"? What IS "enough"?
    Not so that we use it, so that everyone else (i.e. dps) uses it.
    I mean, if a dps is at let's say 70% health, why would they bother using Lightwell if they know that they'll be topped off by one of the healers within 2 seconds?
    If Cata will be like they said it would be, then Lighwell with changes such as target change removal and bigger range might be nice. Otherwise...
    Last edited by Eliot123; 2010-08-24 at 05:56 AM.
    Hello hello dps are you there? On Recount I don't see a thing, main tank has the healing debuff from the boss you see you see;
    Wha-a-at did you say? Vent is breaking up on me, sorry I can't talk now I am kinda healing; K-kinda healing, k-kinda healing...

  7. #47
    I have to admit, anyone who saying they cannot see it, or have ot move to it etc, are the "bad dps" that we mention when arguing pro lightwell.

    It is not a difficult visual to acknowledge, it is not difficult to click although the current iteration that targets the lightwell is annoying - this is being fixed, and increasing the range to 15 yards makes it a great boon in many fights.

    Why is it that the DPS in this thread believe they dps for 100% of the fight? I don't aim to be mean but, it's not hard to get into 15 yards of a lightwell you know will exist (and can see if you have eyes) so that you can lesser the stress on healers during a specific part of an encounter - or if it's placed within range of melee - to keep yourself topped up when there is not much incoming damage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lugo Moll View Post
    Consider this philosophical question: If Blizz fails, but noone is there to see it. Will there still be QQ?

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Sackman View Post
    I have to admit, anyone who saying they cannot see it, or have ot move to it etc, are the "bad dps" that we mention when arguing pro lightwell.

    It is not a difficult visual to acknowledge, it is not difficult to click although the current iteration that targets the lightwell is annoying - this is being fixed, and increasing the range to 15 yards makes it a great boon in many fights.
    Sadly I doubt the range increase will fix it, usually when placing it the priest makes sure it's where it will help the most and those in the most dire need of it will stand basically on top of it and still not use it. The range will be a boon IF they fix the issue with most people ignoring it =)

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Pozz View Post
    Sadly I doubt the range increase will fix it, usually when placing it the priest makes sure it's where it will help the most and those in the most dire need of it will stand basically on top of it and still not use it. The range will be a boon IF they fix the issue with most people ignoring it =)
    Fixing bads, shouldn't be Blizzards job! Ultimately, if I have a holy priest in my raid, I am sure there will be fights I will ask him to drop a lightwell on. When running during certain phases of fights, clicking on the lightwell during your path is great to assist healing, as I remember from TBC. It's also great to tell pugs where to go, stick a lightwell in the place they need to run too and tell them to go there and click it, you might get them to complete the encounter properly if they get some heals while they go there <.<
    Quote Originally Posted by Lugo Moll View Post
    Consider this philosophical question: If Blizz fails, but noone is there to see it. Will there still be QQ?

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Guesswho69 View Post
    In BC and Vanilla, if a DPS did that, we would just not bring the dps the next time to the raid. I remember on Leotheras the Blind one of the DPS refused to move during his WW and basically got dotted up to the point where a raid healer could only focus on keeping him up. The RL said stop wasting mana on "xxx" and then after the wipe, he got kicked from the raid. Next week he didn't stand in the WW anymore.

    Just because healers have limitless mana, and can keep morons up indefinately doesnt mean that it will continue in Cata. If healers are really going to be mana starved, there's going to be much more focus on just letting idiots die to save mana for the raid than to keep them up.
    What a terrible train of thought. I am assuming with all of my arguments that you/myself/anybody is not raiding with morons. I thought this was clear. Having people save the healer mana is going to be pretty important. Yes, a DPS who just stands in fire/WW/whatever should be kicked. That has absolutely nothing to do with being able to use Lightwell properly. I don't understand the point you were really trying to make.

    I still hardly understand why people think it's so bad. Are you all tunnel visioning so much that you honestly believe that the survival of the raid is entirely up to the healers? Imagine if you really had to worry about mana on LK. Lightwell would be great for, say, Infest. But since you can just have your disc priest with a bajillion mana spam bubbles on the raid, there's absolutely no need for that. There will be no disc priests with a bajillion mana in Cataclysm.

    Additionally, the idea behind the Lightwell would be to, say, have a pre-planned place for it to be dropped. It would become part of the strategy. Sure it will be useless in failpugs where there is no coherent sense of organization, but that's not what I'm talking about here.

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  11. #51
    Everyone seems to have forgotten back when we used to keep one Healer out of combat to resurrect, and have a Rogue run around bandaging people in Molten Core. Now it's "tunnel-vision DPS even if there's much more important things I could be doing which would increase the chance to kill the boss".

    It's like when Shadow Priests don't use Diving Hymn even though it could save the raid because "It's not my job". Worthless.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Abandon View Post
    Everyone seems to have forgotten back when we used to keep one Healer out of combat to resurrect, and have a Rogue run around bandaging people in Molten Core.
    *raises hand*
    I remember. I remember trading health stones in combat. I also remember on heavy damage fights, I intentionally dropped my DPS as a Warlock to keep myself up.

    While I don't want the game to go back to Vanilla from a healer's point of view (2.3 had it good, imo), I'd love for it to go back to that from a DPS'ers.
    Last edited by Kelesti; 2010-08-24 at 02:29 PM.
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  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    *raises hand*
    I remember. I remember trading health stones in combat. I also remember on heavy damage fights, I intentionally dropped my DPS as a Warlock to keep myself up.

    While I don't want the game to go back to Vanilla from a healer's point of view (2.3 had it good, imo), I'd love for it to go back to that from a DPS'ers.
    I'm with you, back in 2.3 I actually enjoyed playing my old resto druid, because healing was much more "should I heal that person or are they safe for now? A few more seconds could get me a bit more mana"
    Quote Originally Posted by Lugo Moll View Post
    Consider this philosophical question: If Blizz fails, but noone is there to see it. Will there still be QQ?

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Abandon View Post
    It's like when Shadow Priests don't use Diving Hymn even though it could save the raid because "It's not my job". Worthless.
    Diving Hymn: Emanates a song forcing the entire party / raid to dive into a swimming pool of shadow (with rubber duckies) in the hopes the boss will no longer see you or will be afraid to get his claws wet and despawn.

    I assume you meant Divine Hymn ;-) and yes, definitely.

    If all DPS were forced to raid as healers for a month, they'd gain an appreciation for when that tipping point in a raid occurs to where the damage coming in is greater than that which the assigned healers can handle. Little things that every DPS can do like using healthstones, bandages, and lightwell, or big things such as Divine Hymn and Tranquility, can dramatically increase kill:wipe ratios.
    Bigslick (6/14H)
    "Those who deny respect for others deserve it not for themselves."

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigslick View Post
    Little things that every DPS can do like using healthstones, bandages, and lightwell, or big things such as Divine Hymn and Tranquility, can dramatically increase kill:wipe ratios.
    There is still a big difference between bandages, healthstones, hymn and tranqulity v. lightwell.
    All those are buttons you push yourself, lightwell is not.

    Lightwell is a tiny, with the even more new ground spell effects to come, hard to find, stationary, currently planned to be clickable on 15 yard range, HoT.

    But good thing to mention bandages. Bandages got used, even though they had the same flaws as we see in lightwell. You don't deal damage, interrupted by damage.
    Bandages got used when they we're needed, but lightwell didn't.

    It's simple. People don't like things that are not a shiny button to push. Lightwell is not a shiny button, so they don't use it. The shiny button is easy to find, the shiny lightwell is not easy to find and even if you find it, it's not a shiny button on your bars. As long as lightwell doesn't turn into a button everyone can put on their bar, it won't get used
    People will more likely use bandages over things like lightwell.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaesebrezen View Post
    It's simple. People don't like things that are not a shiny button to push. Lightwell is not a shiny button, so they don't use it. The shiny button is easy to find, the shiny lightwell is not easy to find and even if you find it, it's not a shiny button on your bars. As long as lightwell doesn't turn into a button everyone can put on their bar, it won't get used
    In Cata it appears those players will need to adapt, or die. Until raids are geared up (and even then, possibly), it appears that healers may frequently be left with the most difficult task in triage: choosing who to heal and who to let die.

    If I see two similar-output dps both in similar peril of death and only have time to save one, it will invariably be the one would be more likely to save himself the next time if given the chance via all tools at his disposal. That includes lightwell, and the player who elects to ignore it if it can't be macro'd is just putting cement mix in their boots.
    Last edited by Bigslick; 2010-08-24 at 05:55 PM.
    Bigslick (6/14H)
    "Those who deny respect for others deserve it not for themselves."

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaesebrezen View Post
    There is still a big difference between bandages, healthstones, hymn and tranqulity v. lightwell.
    All those are buttons you push yourself, lightwell is not.

    Lightwell is a tiny, with the even more new ground spell effects to come, hard to find, stationary, currently planned to be clickable on 15 yard range, HoT.

    But good thing to mention bandages. Bandages got used, even though they had the same flaws as we see in lightwell. You don't deal damage, interrupted by damage.
    Bandages got used when they we're needed, but lightwell didn't.

    It's simple. People don't like things that are not a shiny button to push. Lightwell is not a shiny button, so they don't use it. The shiny button is easy to find, the shiny lightwell is not easy to find and even if you find it, it's not a shiny button on your bars. As long as lightwell doesn't turn into a button everyone can put on their bar, it won't get used
    People will more likely use bandages over things like lightwell.
    After all the people senselessly arguing the same point over and over again here I have just decided to read what I know each of them is saying.

    Basically - anything that means you are required to put effort into playing, you would prefer not to have. Lightwell is a step in the direction of making DPS again pro-active in their survivability other than clicking healthstones or potions. There should be more things like it imho!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lugo Moll View Post
    Consider this philosophical question: If Blizz fails, but noone is there to see it. Will there still be QQ?

  18. #58
    The Lightbringer Jaxi's Avatar
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    Lightwell is a fascinating idea, but currently impractical in raids. Blizzard trying to shove it up our asses and out our throats annoys me.

    Should they change Lightwell to work more like the mob's Lighwell in ToC 5 man, I'd be happier.

  19. #59
    Is there any way to make a macro that could target lightwell and use a charge from it without changing target?
    Something like /click [target=lightwell,exists] or /use [target=lightwell,exists]?

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Sackman View Post
    Basically - anything that means you are required to put effort into playing, you would prefer not to have. Lightwell is a step in the direction of making DPS again pro-active in their survivability other than clicking healthstones or potions. There should be more things like it imho!
    Yeah, bandages say hi. Lightwell says bye. People want buttons to push...

    Did you even get what i wrote? People do actually care about their survivability - as long as it is in their own (class) hands - and not ONE healing spec being present.

    If every healer had a lightwell, we could argue it's uses. As long as just one healing spec provides lightwell, we can say just keep it out of the raid. It's less annoying for everybody.

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