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  1. #1

    Build 12857 Changes

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Holy

    * Hymn of Hope now restores 2% mana, down from 3%. Increases maximum mana by 15%, down from 20%.
    * Holy Nova base damage increased by 33%.
    * Holy Word: Chastise now disorients the target for 3 sec instead of immobilizing it for 2 sec.
    * Revelations Serenity (Heal) healing effect increased by 65%. Cooldown reduced from 45 sec to 20 sec.
    * Holy Concentration now increases the amount of mana regeneration from Spirit.
    * Twirling Light now heals for for 30/60% less. (Old - 30/60% of the amount)


    Shadow

    * Shadowfiend now gives 3% mana when the Shadowfiend attacks, down from 5%.
    * Mind Control now has a 2.5 sec cast time, up from 2 sec.
    * Sin and Punishment now affects enemy targets within 10 yards, up from 6 yards. Additional effect - When your Mind Flay critically hits, the cooldown of your Shadowfiend is reduced by 10/20 sec.
    * Veiled Shadows now reduces the cooldown of Shadowfiend by 30 sec/60 sec. (Down from 1 min/2 min)
    * Masochism *New* - When you take a damaging attack equal to or greater than 10% of your total health or damage yourself with your Shadow Word: Death, you instantly gain 4/8% of your total mana.


    Discipline

    * Aspiration is gone.
    * Twin Disciplines no longer increases the damage absorbed by Power Word: Shield.
    * Strength of Soul *New* - When you heal a target with your Heal spell, the duration of the weakened soul debuff on the target is reduced by 2/4 sec.
    * Inner Focus is back as a Tier 3 talent.
    Interesting stuff here. Sin and Punishment looks incredibly OP for PvE. 20 sec taken off Shadowfiend CD when Mind Flay crits? Yeah, I can definitely see 100% uptime on Shadowfiend, with that talent.

    Strength of Soul looks nice for Disc tank healing.

    Holy Word: Chastise disorients again? Yay! Also a reduced CD for Revelations Serenity, cool.
    Quote Originally Posted by Precursor View Post
    "Fall of therzane....." ....um what? if that woman fell , god help us it will be the second cataclysm
    Words that lots of people don't seem to know the definition of:
    "Troll", "Rehash", "Casual", "Dead", "Dying", "Exploit".

  2. #2
    They really nerfed all the active regen cooldowns, all over the board here. I don't know by how much just yet, but this will significantly lower the value of intellect as a regen stat. And that I can approve of.

  3. #3
    With Holy concentration getting the mana regen based off of spirit again looks like holy priests are going to be spirit happy again. Especially if Holy Concentration keeps it's 20% mana regen in combat. Theoretically if am hearing it right based on what boubs posted spirit would boost overall regen, and 20% would be our now in combat regen? Not too happy bout all the nerfs to mana regen else though. Especially shadowfiend, you generally only get him out once in a fight so why nerf how much he recovers and even the talent that had the best chance of allowing us to use it more then once. It seems extreme to hit him with a double hit and not to just chose one or the other.

  4. #4
    I think the change to chastise, strengh of soul and sin and punishment are the highlights and I believe they are all pretty damn good.

  5. #5
    Herald of the Titans iLive's Avatar
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    I am dissapointed with the amount of changes. I don't mind any of the changes, but there should be more changes to Holy and Discipline. Discipline because of Improved Inner Fire and because there should be more fun utility and Holy because it's a very bad talent tree (don't force players to tale abilities they hate). Priests needs more love. ;(

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by kelevandros View Post
    I think the change to chastise, strengh of soul and sin and punishment are the highlights and I believe they are all pretty damn good.
    Sin an punishment sounds highly amusing. Especially once mind flay starts to roll in crit. If shadow priests complain about mana at all in cata I will be afraid, that and it seems they will have a chance to use shadowfiend multiple times throughout fights for some added dps.

  7. #7
    High Overlord Aregios's Avatar
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    # Divine Plea now let you gain 10% (down from 25%) of your total mana over 15 sec. Cooldown changed to 2 min, up from 1 min.

    # Innervate now regenerate mana equal to 20% of the casting Druid's maximum mana pool, down from 33%.
    it seems every ability to regain mana was nerfed during that beta-build except manatide totem (It's no "we hate priests" nerf *phew*)

    I liked the idea to use the shadowfiend more than once in a battle, but with a 3 min fiend the nerf was predictably.
    It would be awesome, if Masochism would be in the upper two tiers, but I doubt it (likely 5-7)

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Aregios View Post
    it seems every ability to regain mana was nerfed during that beta-build except manatide totem (It's no "we hate priests" nerf *phew*)
    Maybe it's a "we love shamans" one, though

  9. #9
    Good:

    -Finally a second interrupt! Psychic Scream wasn't enough for lvling and PvP, I'm really happy with Chastise as 10 lvl spell But I don't know if DoT interrupts disorient effects, it would be stupid to not be able to use Holy Fire because its DoT.

    -Holy Nova really needed a DPS increase, to kill Hyjal mobs requiered too much time.

    -Holy Concentration change is interesting for battlegrounds, we spend lot of time running from lumber to farm, and more out of combat mana regeneration is welcomed.

    -Serenity cooldown 20 sec sounds awesome. I still prefer the prayer chakra state because I love aoe spells, but Serenity is really really good. Could be fun to add an effect to the smite state, "your holy fire causes a explosion" or something similar.

    -Veiled Shadows nerf was obvious, it was too good for just 2 points. However I liked the fact that I could spend some points in shadow being healer, now I'll go for Archangel. I still don't know what to do with Fade spell as healer, I only use it in PvP to avoid pets, and I need free space in my actionbars.


    Bad:

    -Improved Inner Fire still exists. The armor bonus is too mandatory for PvP.

    -I still can take all the talents from the holy tree. We need 3-5 more talent points to be forced to take decisions.

    -Holy Fire still doesn't proc Evangelism.

    -Hymn of Hope is disappointing, I understand that mana regen need a nerf but this spell need some love.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by iLive View Post
    Holy because it's a very bad talent tree (don't force players to tale abilities they hate). Priests needs more love. ;(
    Are you looking at the same thing I am? Holy looks awesome now...

    And if your talking about lightwell, they've repeatedly said it's where it's at to force players to test it in the new game.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoros View Post
    -Hymn of Hope is disappointing, I understand that mana regen need a nerf but this spell need some love.
    HoH needs to be deleted or reworked. A mana regen tool that requires channeling doesn't work, even if I get some mana, I spent 8 seconds doing nothing while my raid was still taking damage so I need to spam inefficient heals and I am oom again.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by masteryuri View Post
    HoH needs to be deleted or reworked. A mana regen tool that requires channeling doesn't work, even if I get some mana, I spent 8 seconds doing nothing while my raid was still taking damage so I need to spam inefficient heals and I am oom again.
    I think that this is the fun part of Hymn of Hope, it's hard to channel and requieres to chose the correct moment to use it. However hard to channel for no effect is absurd, it should do something amazing to be worth it. Everytime I channel Hymn of Hope I think that I'm losing my time. Besides I don't like the mana increase, when the effect ends I feel that I'm burning my mates mana. I play with a fire mage in PvP, and often I channel desperetly Hymn of Hope to give him some mana, and suddenly his oom again.

  13. #13
    Tbh, Hymn of hope is useless without nerf, so with nerf its gonna disappear from my bars. They should add something that you can be sure that you will get some fucking mana from this spells. Now its mostly. Casting HoH in 25man, all possible guys except you get mana and gratz you wasted 8sec of your life
    The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair.

  14. #14
    I find these changes with active mana regen tools rather stupid. I mean, to make the mana-game interesting for healers, they should make MORE active tools, not less, and nerf passive regen. So it will be more about choices and being smart, than just trying to cast less in order to save some mana.

    Aspiration gone is great, as long as they reduce the base cooldowns of the spells.

  15. #15
    HoH is useful for the sfiend combo. Paladins also love you if you HoH just before they use divine plea.

    All of this is nerfed badly in cataclysm. I also question the value of HoH, but I seriously think it is good that int is no longer the almighty stat for regen.

  16. #16
    So basically shadow will have 80% uptime or something in pve, what is left now is how we will put our talents.

  17. #17
    Shadowpriests 100% uptime on shadowfiend wtf ??? no way it's going live as 20 seconds; 10 might be more reasonable, but even then it's pretty insane.

    even at 10 yard radius sin and punishment is bad... just less bad

    masochism AWESOME, infinite mana in pvp when under fire. imagine in a bg, running oom, disperse off CD, mount into a bunch of enemies and happily disperse away, coming into safety at FULL mana because the noobs thought they could kill you and just ended up feeding you a million billion mana instead, LOL!

    imp inner fire still needs to be 2 points, or moved to tier 1

    apparitions still retarded

    still need better dispel protection

    still need to clean up the tree a little, it's still kinda scattershot and awkward/unintuitive

    also, why is imp psychic scream still tied to silence? better question: why does imp psychic scream STILL EXIST

    other than that, i dig it

  18. #18
    I doubt it will be 100% uptime, espeically since our crit will be a lot lower than it currently is in Cataclysm.

    Shadowfiend will have a 4 minute cooldown, so 12 Mind Flay crits will be needed to reset the cooldown again. At 30% crit, you would need an average of 12 Mind Flays to get it off cooldown, going from the base cast time that would be 36 seconds of doing nothing but Mind Flay, and we are going to need to be reapplying DoTs, using Mind Blast and Shadow Word Death, so it sounds more like it could be ready once a minute for us, possibly sooner depending on haste and crit chance as well as RNG.

    They mentioned that Mana is going to be something healers need to manage, but DPS shouldn't have a problem as long as they use the toold provided, so this seems to fit in well, plus it's a nice DPS increase being able to use him more often.

    This is also another reason to use Mind Flay over Mind Spike while on a stationary single target.
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  19. #19
    Cooldown starts to count just after shadowfiend and still counts when you cast mindflay take that in mind,shadowfiend will be near 90% uptime in raids.

  20. #20
    Yes, it looks like Blizzard has changed their focus. Rather than trying to make Mind Spike more attractive for low life targets, they're focusing on making Mind Flay more attractive to high life ones. The changes to Veiled Shadows is expected with the Sin and Punishment change. With that much uptime on shadowfiend... dispersion may continue to be little more than a situational use in pve.

    The Sin and Punishment change also gives a good source of crit scaling.

    I'm also amused by the fact that so many people think that if you can reach a talent, you should be able to max it out. (inner fire) If we were meant to max out every talent we could reach, we would just have all talents be 1 point.

    At least for shadow, I think the 3rd point in improved inner fire would be better for pvp/farming. The 2pt imp inner fire + archangel is better for 5 mans and raiding.
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