Enhancement Mana Regen in Beta

[Tempos]

Been snooping around the beta forums and have seen that enhancement has some really bad mana regeneration currently. Primal Wisdom isn't returning enough mana and to be honest is a pretty lame mechanic. I think everyone could agree it shouldn't be a talent, rather a perk for picking the enhancement tree. My question to all of you, my shaman forum friends, is what you think should be done to fix mana for enhancement.

A personal idea I had come up with was to add an effect very similar to the paladin judgments of the wise, that affects our Lava Lash ability. When we cast Lava Lash we regenerate 40% of our base mana over 6 seconds, or something like that. It gives Lava Lash a cool affect other than just being a pure damaging ability with our offhand, it would only be for enhancement and available at 10 since Lava Lash is one of our spec perks. It also consequently really favors using dual wielding, and would help make enhance a dual wield spec, and not a 2h or tank spec. Again, just an idea, I really want to hear all of yours, and what you think of mine.

[Radux]

Well I'll be honest and say I have not been following the Enhancement beta forums so I'll just have to take your word for it. On one hand it may just be a leveling thing where we don't have enough haste/attack speed to gain the 'desired effect' for mana regen.

On to ideas:
I'm not sure linking LL to mana regen really makes sense. I mean how would the Searing Flames effect (additional damage) deal with it? Increase mana or would it be a steady thing?

Frankly I just say give back the old Improved SS and make it part of the base ability.

I suppose a lot of the problems with the mana regen model for Enh is that we have to be in range to actually hit something, unlike Ret. However, linking it to a shock or LB or LvB or whatever is just a terrible design. I'm not really sure how they could fix it, honestly.

[Swiftninja]

Improved stormstrike should just become baseline with SS in cata, can just tweak it enough so we do not have unlimited mana but have enough every "45 seconds" for shamanistic rage to allow us to return enough mana back to continue our rotation.

If lava lash had a mana return it could screw our rotation over since well be timing it with searing totem dots and if were starving for mana LL will be used on every cd regardless of how many dot stacks are present. But either way we need one of our spells to return mana.

[Tempos]

Just to clarify, from what I'm reading, most shaman are currently spending somewhere around 70% of the time auto attacking because of lack of mana, so it isn't something that will work itself out with haste. And I do like Stormstrike giving back mana, it just seemed that Stormstrike already has some extra oomf with its debuff. And to the comment of searing flames, I'm not a huge fan of the mechanic. Seems somewhat clunky and will never be used in a PvP environment, plus it acts sorta like a combo point mechanic, and we already have Maelstrom Weapon for that, so watching two separate 5 stacking things just doesn't sound like the greatest amount of fun. though I could be wrong. I do agree with the range issue, shocks would be the answer more than LB if that was the case though.

---------- Post added 2010-08-23 at 07:07 PM ----------

Shamanistic rage has also been changed to no longer be a mana regen tool, and rather makes all your spells free casts. And from the looks of it, we dont loose anything from using LL at any stack, since 5 stacks= 5 1 stakcs = 1 3stack and 1 2stack, so more than likely lava lash will still be used in a space gcd

[takolin]

From what's I've read in a different thread: MSW stacks don't reduce manacosts of LB/CL/LvB by 100% like the tooltip suggests but only by 30%.

But if you indeed get a full mana reduction of those abilities, your mana issues would be lowered to the point where primal strike is sufficient in a PvE setting, though PvP might still offer issues as you have a lot less time on target.

[Deleted]

Primal Wisdom needs to be balanced with 100% chance on hit. If I knew how to tell them this I would.

[Vargarii]

Just to clarify, from what I'm reading, most shaman are currently spending somewhere around 70% of the time auto attacking because of lack of mana, so it isn't something that will work itself out with haste. And I do like Stormstrike giving back mana, it just seemed that Stormstrike already has some extra oomf with its debuff. And to the comment of searing flames, I'm not a huge fan of the mechanic. Seems somewhat clunky and will never be used in a PvP environment, plus it acts sorta like a combo point mechanic, and we already have Maelstrom Weapon for that, so watching two separate 5 stacking things just doesn't sound like the greatest amount of fun. though I could be wrong. I do agree with the range issue, shocks would be the answer more than LB if that was the case though.

---------- Post added 2010-08-23 at 07:07 PM ----------

Shamanistic rage has also been changed to no longer be a mana regen tool, and rather makes all your spells free casts. And from the looks of it, we dont loose anything from using LL at any stack, since 5 stacks= 5 1 stakcs = 1 3stack and 1 2stack, so more than likely lava lash will still be used in a space gcd

70% of the time autoattacking is way off(unless I missed some drastic changes). However, the mana regen does require some downtime when questing/instancing because it is poor and rng. Also, while I haven't jumped on beta in a week or two for personal reasons, the mana regen made it a complete waste of time to ever attempt to magma/nova and aoe.

[Tempos]

70% of the time autoattacking is way off(unless I missed some drastic changes). However, the mana regen does require some downtime when questing/instancing because it is poor and rng. Also, while I haven't jumped on beta in a week or two for personal reasons, the mana regen made it a complete waste of time to ever attempt to magma/nova and aoe.

That was the guys said on the beta forum, so he must of been over exaggerating, but still there is a problem, because we should, in normal circumstances, never go oom. unless enhance was redesigned to work like that (which might be interesting), but it hasn't, cause getting mana from auto attacks is not like energy at all. That also brings up the problem of even regaining mana from auto attacks, which isn't a very good design. So I still really hope a lot of this stuff is place holders and shaman are still getting another pass, cause it's sorta sad to look at >.<

[Vargarii]

That was the guys said on the beta forum, so he must of been over exaggerating, but still there is a problem, because we should, in normal circumstances, never go oom. unless enhance was redesigned to work like that (which might be interesting), but it hasn't, cause getting mana from auto attacks is not like energy at all. That also brings up the problem of even regaining mana from auto attacks, which isn't a very good design. So I still really hope a lot of this stuff is place holders and shaman are still getting another pass, cause it's sorta sad to look at >.<

We aren't designed that way, and it is indeed an issue. They claim that they want for us to never worry about mana unless it's in an aoe situation, but currently, it's more like you worry about mana and aoe puts you oom in seconds. It's definately something they needed to work with. At 80, in my gear, I had like 96-97% white hit %, and mana was still an issue while instancing/questing. It's been mentioned plenty in forums, but people with posts like the 70% guy will divert attention away if they make it appear as simple whining.

Also, I'm in complete agreement with you about our mana regen being poor in design, and that it should be baseline rather than talented. It seems enhance is really getting shafted in a lot of areas to make up for the few good changes we managed to get.

[DeWumpus]

Why not tie Primal Wisdom to the flame shock or searing flames dot. 'Periodic damage from your Flame Shock (or Searing Flames) return 2/4% of your base mana'. This would make haste effectively regen mana for us. More Haste -> More Dot Ticks -> More mana! Yay!!

[keeb]

Mana regen in Beta is: (seems to be some disinformation in this thread)

1.) Primal Wisdom - 40% chance (ON ATTACK) to replenish 5% of your mana pool. Technically, according to wording used this should work on Misses/Absorbs/Hits etc "Every swing". Otherwise it should be worded like MW is on Live (Successful damage dealing attacks) So this talents mechanics do not match its wording, as it only procs on Hits.

2.) Shamanistic Rage - for 15 seconds every 60 seconds, reduces all abilities (SR/GW/FeSp etc), Totems and damaging attacks by 100% - Everything but heals and Purges/interrupts. Forcing you to use your Survival tool as a pillar to prop up your poor mana regen.

3.) MW - Should according to wording reduce any Heal/Damage "Casted" spell by 100%. From what ive read... the mana reduction is not working at all. I haven't seen any good reports indicating that it reduces cost by 30%

4.) Watershield - MP5 and Procs when getting hit (3 second cooldown on procs)


--When MW5 mana redux is working. We will not have large issues with mana in a predictable PvE environment.

--In PvP with slows snares stuns... and being unable to be on target consistently, coupled with increased Dodges/parries/Blocks and Absorbs. Crippled in PvP would be an understatement. Completely unplayable would be more accurate.

Thankfully we finally have a vocal PvP Enhancement shaman on Beta... Jaffnar I think his name is, German player.

[Gray_Matter]

--When MW5 mana redux is working. We will not have large issues with mana in a predictable PvE environment.

I wonder how this would work in a HC environment. I am always running out of mana in the daily HC's with my raid build. Even with water shield up.

--In PvP with slows snares stuns... and being unable to be on target consistently, coupled with increased Dodges/parries/Blocks and Absorbs. Crippled in PvP would be an understatement. Completely unplayable would be more accurate.

That was my first thought. Maybe they will put intellect on PVP gear

[aether99]

to be effective in pvp we need mana regen that is RELIABLE, meaning that we can regen mana when a rogue evasions, or a hunter/mage kites...meaning it has to not be tied to melee damage, or maybe even damage.

or...they give primal wisdom (why isnt this baseline?) and MW a defensive trigger as well.

% chance to gain mana when taking damage, % chance to get a stack of MW when taking damage...boom, can you say awesome?

[Omanley]

my idea would be to keep the current mana system. to achieve that even without int on gear we change the mental quickness ( 50% spellpower from attackpower ) integrated into the enh tree in beta to intellect.

with that we both keep our spell crit, spellpower AND manapool.

additionally, keep sr as it is and change primal wisdom to improved shocks (your shock spells regenerate 20% of your base mana).

this way enh mana will work as it does now ( never going oom as along as you use sr once a while ), while also being able to regenerate mana through shocks in pvp ( better than with stormstrike, as you do not have to close distance ), so that you can use sr for the dmg reduction.

[Swiftninja]

my idea would be to keep the current mana system. to achieve that even without int on gear we change the mental quickness ( 50% spellpower from attackpower ) integrated into the enh tree in beta to intellect.

with that we both keep our spell crit, spellpower AND manapool.

additionally, keep sr as it is and change primal wisdom to improved shocks (your shock spells regenerate 20% of your base mana).

this way enh mana will work as it does now ( never going oom as along as you use sr once a while ), while also being able to regenerate mana through shocks in pvp ( better than with stormstrike, as you do not have to close distance ), so that you can use sr for the dmg reduction.

Ever post your ideas on blizzard forums? I support the idea converting ap/agility into intellect. Easy solution to any mana problem.

[Novarian]

I absolutely hate the fact that it is RNG. Enhancement already has enough RNG to worry about (WF, MSW and static shock) and if I remember correctly our damage is the most affect by RNG out of all the classes. The last thing that we need is for our mana regain to be RNG based.

[Millhi]

there has been an Q&A for shamans in cataclysm.

here it the part about the mana regen.

Q: I've heard mana has recently begun to be an issue for Enhancement in the last few beta builds. Will the ultimate solution just be to tweak Primal Wisdom s'more? Oh, and what about all that discussion about moving Primal Wisdom to being part of Enhancement's lvl 10 skillset? It's going to be hellish on new Enhancers not having their primary mana restoration technique until much later. Also on the table here, and I'm sorry it touches on totems again - a full set of totems or an AoE rotation kills Enhancement's mana very very quickly. It'd be nice if the mana cost got reduced on some of these abilities.

A: It's not the intent that Enhancement has to worry about mana a lot. Generally you should have enough mana to do what you want to do. It's a model we're still adjusting. We haven't quite established a base regen for the casters and healers that we're happy with and every time we tweak that, it affects the Ret paladins and Enhancement shaman, who aren't really supposed to be mana-constrained.

it will all be fine after some tweaks.

[Omanley]

Ever post your ideas on blizzard forums? I support the idea converting ap/agility into intellect. Easy solution to any mana problem.

Im german so i can only post on european forums. have done that a few times, but hardly got any good feetback from players. I also heard that blizzard very easily bans players (especially in the shaman forums) just for pointing out flaws. Feel free to post up any of my ideas on the official forums, though, i have no patent for it and there can only be profit from it.