Lowest gear level for ICC 10

[Cookies_N_Creme]

200 Blues. It's the truth, look it up.

[exdeath202]

can someone explain me why everyone in my realm asks for 5500+?

[Reyzzz]

LFM ICC10 5.5k GS going for 4+ bosses!

[Deleted]

Anyone in mostly 232 badge gear and ICC5man gear can do very well in ICC all the way to LK. Crafted 245s dont hurt and cost nothing too...

Its doable in blues some of you say. Yea, with up to 17 wipes on usually 1shotted bosses like Rot, Saurfang or Princes... Stop that BS .

[Mudang]

Your entire raid could have a 3300 GS and your upgrades would scale you into the rest of the instance.

Raiding in Blues.

Beat me to it. If the OP want's to know what is the absolute lowest, <Undergeared> has pushed the threshold to an impressive low.

[Mammoth]

If your serious about helping your friends out, ignore GS its a stupid tool for PuGs and PuGs alone, it has no bearing on you and your mates. The real question should be:
Is my current HP/DPS/HealingSkills good enough for ICC10?

And my frank answer to this will be, it depends on your friends and what they're bringing to the party. However, if you can make 5k DPS it should be plenty. Just make sure when you go with your friends you've done the research and know the tactics. Failing tactics is the killer in ICC above anything else.

[DocQuantum]

My previous guild was casual, and downed all four bosses in the initial wing the first night ICC came out. That's ICC 10 run with ToC 25 gear, by a casual guild that had read about the fights, but never seen them. That was without any buff whatsoever.

Now you're talking at least a few members with better gear, several people with practice on the fights, and a 30% buff.

To be honest, hit 80, chain run heroics for T9 badge gear, and hit ICC: the gear is more than sufficient.

[Zoots]

Beat me to it. If the OP want's to know what is the absolute lowest, <Undergeared> has pushed the threshold to an impressive low.

While this is true (and much respect to Undergeared) I think this shows what a great amount of teamwork and skill can accomplish, something which is rather lacking when your trying to fill the last couple slots of your raid with puggers.

[Team Frosty]

non srs but it could work: leveling gear

srs: do heroics for two days and get full 232 / get weapons from ICC 5 mans, and shield

[Rekx]

I was in 232 - 245 gear doing ICC10 / 25 when they first came out on my slightly undergeared alt. I did fine, and with the 30% buff you should have no issue.

Well, you may have an issue with all those gearscore f@gs who want you to be 25 geared for a 10man...

[Galvanon]

I would disregard the people talking about raiding in blues. That's a guild with a quirk and not a great indicator for gear. Also I imagine they wipe a ton more then any geared runs. Good for them if they are having fun and I don't doubt their skill but that doesn't mean I will start taking fresh 80's that demand they've skillz

Better to grab someone that invested in their character with heroic gearing (245's and 232's) enchants and gemming. This DOES NOT mean 5k gear score. For example, I had a DK that did all that work but to ensure he had the right amount of expertise, I was forced to wear level 200 rings and such. I was at 4800 gs but perfectly suited to an ICC raid. So I would consider characters like that as your minimum. (not the number, the amount of gear)

[Zoots]

I was in 232 - 245 gear doing ICC10 / 25 when they first came out on my slightly undergeared alt. I did fine, and with the 30% buff you should have no issue.

Well, you may have an issue with all those gearscore f@gs who want you to be 25 geared for a 10man...

Here is my only issue, and it's never been addressed adequately. Every single time I've seen somebody undergeared that said they were skilled given a shot, they have ALWAYS failed horribly. It's typically the excuse, "while this is an alt so I haven't geared him up all the way yet. I've done it on my main." So they are quickly brought on because we just want to smash the boss, and they just bring in the fail train. They die within a few seconds, they stand in fire, they don't kite the ooze. It's always something. Granted, with fairly geared players this problem exists as well, but not nearly with the same frequency, and thus it leads to not bringing in lower geared players as habit. Since you think your being denied purely based on your GS, rather than people being tired of a history of fail, how would YOU solve this? People say skill != Gear. I AGREE, but there isn't really a quick and easy way to determine skill from a player you know nothing about is there?

[Alianthos]

Undegeared are very good players that know how to min-max their blue-gear character and know fight mechanics very well. So it's not a reference, really, it only shows what could be done, on paper.

I'd say 4500GS for people who dont know the instance, really. Should be enough.

[Mudang]

I would disregard the people talking about raiding in blues.

I wouldn't. When the question is

I was wondering what is the minimum gear level for them to join (counting the 30% buff)

we are speaking in absolutes, and thus far, the minimum well documented gear level happens to be ilvl 200 blues with suboptimal gems and enchants.

And sure, they do wipe more often then well geared groups, but that's neither here nor there.

While I do agree with you that I prefer somebody to take pride in their gear (meaning optimized gems and enchants, even if the item will be shortly replaced), it is very well documented that the gear threshold is equal to a couple hours of heroic farming.

[Rekx]

Here is my only issue, and it's never been addressed adequately. Every single time I've seen somebody undergeared that said they were skilled given a shot, they have ALWAYS failed horribly. It's typically the excuse, "while this is an alt so I haven't geared him up all the way yet. I've done it on my main." So they are quickly brought on because we just want to smash the boss, and they just bring in the fail train. They die within a few seconds, they stand in fire, they don't kite the ooze. It's always something. Granted, with fairly geared players this problem exists as well, but not nearly with the same frequency, and thus it leads to not bringing in lower geared players as habit. Since you think your being denied purely based on your GS, rather than people being tired of a history of fail, how would YOU solve this? People say skill != Gear. I AGREE, but there isn't really a quick and easy way to determine skill from a player you know nothing about is there?

I agree completely with you. I have seen many people give that exact excuse about them being on alt, or them being given a chance and then failing. It does give people such as myself a bad reputation. I do not claim to be some elite player, and I am not immune to f**king up now and then. I do however pride myself on being competent enough on the toons that I choose to raid with to be able to pull my own weight.

Your right, the problem of people doing stupid stuff exists even if you only bring geared players but to a lesser degree. This plus the fact that undergeared players on average mess up more often would cause the trend that you mentioned.

Sadly, I do not have a concrete solution to this. The only recommendations that I have is that people playing alts learn that class better, dont go to raids in which you know you will drag the group down, and learn to not screw up in general. Thats asking a lot from some players I know (not saying you, just people in general) but thats really the only way to eliminate this problem.

My problem and its the same problem I suspect many decent players have, is the fact that because of those who mess up and give alts / undergeared players such a bad name, we are usually not allowed to join. Gearscore has been caught in the middle though, and is used as a quick judgement call based on the only means of evaluating a player the best way they can without knowing them: their gear.
This in turn creates a catch22 of sorts, you need gear to raid, but you cant get the gear unless you raid.

Like I said, I don't have an answer aside from everyone changing a bit, which just isn't going to happen. So its more a matter of patience / luck or making a good reputation on your server to get into raids with an alt / undergeared character.
So my advice to the OP would be just keep trying, and once given that chance show others that you dont suck.

[Paladin885]

4500+ can easily pull 6k+ dps on bosses with even the previous 20-25% buff. Which is sad because ive seen 5500 gs casters do 5400dps on bosses and under 10k on trash.





BUT, that assumes skill and knowledge is involved.

[Eyeless]

the buff makes it too easy for people with less icc gear to be able to do decently, still i would say around 5k gs. but of course gs relly means nothing i have seen relly good dps from people with a lower gs. skill is what it all comes down too yet there isnt a way to see somebody's skill until you raid with them. always ask for an achiv so you know they know what to do, but even then there're addons that can fake achiv's.

[phyrix]

Another thread that has escalated into a gearscore vs skill discussion...

This is new and exciting.

The OP answered a simple question, what level of gear do a group of unexperienced players need to kill the first four bosses in ICC10. The answer is about 4500 GS is enough when you have a raidleader who knows the fights.

That Undergeared did it in blues is irrelevant. They're a guild made up of really good players who know how to min-max, and know their class inside and out. Besides that, if I recall correctly, they wiped a shitton of times even on saurfang, who's a pushover once everybody's got 5k GS or more.

Yes, gearscore doesn't correlate to skill one bit. You can be the worst player in the world, if you happen to be rich (ingame) you can BUY all that gear and all those shiny achievements from guilds who have the content on farm. The world's nr 25 guild, Memento Mori, plays on my server, a guild that farms LK25 HC, and afaik they're currently selling ANYTHING you could want in ICC. Prices are high (like 80k gold for the ICC mount), but it is possible.

That being said, if you have a choice between two people you don't know, even if they both have the achievements proving they've already cleared the content, you'll always take the best geared person, because you'll have the highest chance of success. In that regard GS is a good tool for pugging.

I'm not a real fan of pugging myself, I rather raid with my guild. When we recruit people, they're on a trial period of at least a month, and they are continuously evaluated by their role leaders (we have role leaders, not classleaders, so two people in charge of healing, two in charge of melee dps, two in charge of ranged dps, two in charge of tanks). That way you can judge the general performance of a player, without focussing on their gear. You also get a sense of what kind of person they are, if they have a good and stable connection, if they show up for raids they sign for... That's the best and most accurate way to judge a person, and compared to that GS is a very poor tool.

[Zoots]

making a good reputation on your server to get into raids with an alt / undergeared character.
So my advice to the OP would be just keep trying, and once given that chance show others that you dont suck.

THIS is the ultimate solution/ Besides, this is a MMO, part of the whole point is to interact with people. Work to make rep with a group of raiders, prove yourself, and then you'll be let in when you are a bit undergeared. Expecting a random group of people to take a larger risk with an undergeared player is simply unreasonable considering the history of these very same players.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

Mostly 232 and 245? With the 30% buff? Heck, that's what the entire raid had when my guild started doing alt runs there 2 weeks after ICC launch (no ICC buff)

5k GS is EXTREMELY OVERKILL for ICC10 with 30% buff if u actually know how to play. Too bad 95% of pug leaders assume that everybody wants to raid with overkill gear so that they can slack and play without focus. I've lost the count of how many times I have managed to get into ICC10 on my Holy pala (think it has 5.2k GS, 35k mana unbuffed), and have ppl go like "Wtf how can this 5.2k GS guy be so much better than the guy with 5.8k?".

U could probably do it with Ulduar lvl gear, but it seems like most pug leaders want AT LEAST 5k Gay score.