Sargeras Vs. Old Gods

[Overmind the 3rd]

oh i missed that, but wouldn't the statement still be true? And do we know Saurfang's last name was Saurfang? if "The younger" is another way to say junior, then that means its a first name, but I could be wrong, I mean I'm not calling my son "McConnell the younger" XD

It's their family name.

Broxigar Saurfang
Varok Saurfang
Dranosh Saurfang (aka Saurfang the Younger)

[Lolretadin]

Since I saw people bringing up Demonic races, I decided it would be a good idea to just post the names of a few of the races that are allied or part of the Legion.

The Nathrezim/Dreadlords
http://www.wowwiki.com/Nathrezim

The Eredar
http://www.wowwiki.com/Eredar

Doomguards
http://www.wowwiki.com/Doomguard

Felhounds
http://www.wowwiki.com/Felhound

Infernals
http://www.wowwiki.com/Infernal

Demonic Hounds
http://www.wowwiki.com/Demonic_hound

Annihilan/Pit Lords
http://www.wowwiki.com/Pit_lord

Imps
http://www.wowwiki.com/Imp

Eyes of ---- <Example Below>
http://www.wowwiki.com/Eye_of_Culuthas

Mo'arg
http://www.wowwiki.com/Mo%27arg

Gan'arg
http://www.wowwiki.com/Gan%27arg

Felguard (Mo'arg subtype)
http://www.wowwiki.com/Felguard

Succubi
http://www.wowwiki.com/Succubi

Voidwalker
http://www.wowwiki.com/Voidwalker

Dreadsteed
http://www.wowwiki.com/Dreadsteed

Tothrezim
http://www.wowwiki.com/Tothrezim

There are many many more Demon races. These are just a few I threw together for those who were asking about any Demons.

---------- Post added 2010-08-29 at 04:19 AM ----------

You missed the point, Obviously uncorrupted Eredar are not Demons, and the pitlords aswell, I wanna believe you read the books, but I'm starting to doubt it. What I was saying was that they all were not Demons to begin with, why I only pointed out Dreadlords to begin with. If a Satyr is not a demon, then neither is Eredar warlocks, succubi, pitlords and every other known race in the legion except Dreadlords. They were all corrupted and changed by the power of Demonology or "Fel". Did not Sargeras turn the Eredar into what they are now? Then why is it when he brings Xavius back in a form of his own image, that is called Satyr, that you say they are not Demons? That is why i replied that they all must be mutated then. Abusing the the well had nothing to do with the Satyrs.

when I say "but few years ago, there were like 10 demon races" that is to say there were only like 10 a few years back. were....

Guldan creating the death Knights...do you remember the Necrophytes? i think thats what they were called. and if I recall correctly, they were the ones who did that.

There are many DEMON races that began as Demons. The Pit Lords, Succubi, and Nathrezim are such beings. There are also those that became tainted by Demonic energies and, although not technecally Demons, are still classified as such. Not ALL Demonic races were turned into Demons or Demon like beings.

...

Gul'dan created the first Deathknights by fusing Orc souls into Human bodies to act as a sort of mental warfare while in combat.

...

Gul'dan was a powerful Warlock. Summoning Demons would have come easily to him.

[DreadLobster]

Or you could just do the easy and copy paste this part from Wowwiki

Sapient Demons and Fel-corrupted species:

Ered'ruin:
Daemon · Doomguard (Doomlord)

Mo'arg:
Felguard · Gan'arg

Sayaad:
Incubus · Succubus

Voidwalker:
Void god · Void lord · Voidcaller · Voidwraith

Fel-corrupted:
Felblood Elf · Fel Orc (Dire) · Satyr

Other:
Annihilan · Fiend · Floating eye · Imp · Man'ari eredar (Wrathguard) · Nathrezim (Tothrezim) · Shivarra

[Lolretadin]

Or I could not miss half the races :X

[Izenhart]

and the pitlords aswell, I wanna believe you read the books, but I'm starting to doubt it.

And the pitlords aswell? You just said they're "mutated annihilan", wich is not...

Every single Highborne of the ones "abusing the Well" got mutated. Even the ones who willingly accepted (or the ones who were forced to)
to join Xavius for more powers and then mutating even more into Satyrs.

Being empowered by Demoinic powers doesn't make you a DEMON.

Being empowered by Old God's corruption doesn't make you an Old God.

See the link?

when I say "but few years ago, there were like 10 demon races" that is to say there were only like 10 a few years back. were..

Oh, so, in a few years, 15 new Demon races got addes?

No. The only new demon races, iirc, are Mo'Arg, Void terrors and Shivarras, this highly cut them down to 10.

Guldan creating the death Knights...do you remember the Necrophytes? i think thats what they were called. and if I recall correctly, they were the ones who did that.

Necrolytes, well no.

Actually Gul'Dan even killed them to create the DKs.

[Apok101]

If you call the corruption of one of the greatest archmages to live and who was also the last gaurdian of azeroth, who then brought the orcs from draenor into this world, which caused 3 great wars, not evil, then i want whatever drug your on.

[kampfer]

Since I saw people bringing up Demonic races, I decided it would be a good idea to just post the names of a few of the races that are allied or part of the Legion.

The Nathrezim/Dreadlords
http://www.wowwiki.com/Nathrezim

The Eredar
http://www.wowwiki.com/Eredar

Doomguards
http://www.wowwiki.com/Doomguard

Felhounds
http://www.wowwiki.com/Felhound

Infernals
http://www.wowwiki.com/Infernal

Demonic Hounds
http://www.wowwiki.com/Demonic_hound

Annihilan/Pit Lords
http://www.wowwiki.com/Pit_lord

Imps
http://www.wowwiki.com/Imp

Eyes of ---- <Example Below>
http://www.wowwiki.com/Eye_of_Culuthas

Mo'arg
http://www.wowwiki.com/Mo%27arg

Gan'arg
http://www.wowwiki.com/Gan%27arg

Felguard (Mo'arg subtype)
http://www.wowwiki.com/Felguard

Succubi
http://www.wowwiki.com/Succubi

Voidwalker
http://www.wowwiki.com/Voidwalker

Dreadsteed
http://www.wowwiki.com/Dreadsteed

Tothrezim
http://www.wowwiki.com/Tothrezim

There are many many more Demon races. These are just a few I threw together for those who were asking about any Demons.

---------- Post added 2010-08-29 at 04:19 AM ----------



There are many DEMON races that began as Demons. The Pit Lords, Succubi, and Nathrezim are such beings. There are also those that became tainted by Demonic energies and, although not technecally Demons, are still classified as such. Not ALL Demonic races were turned into Demons or Demon like beings.

...

Gul'dan created the first Deathknights by fusing Orc souls into Human bodies to act as a sort of mental warfare while in combat.

...

Gul'dan was a powerful Warlock. Summoning Demons would have come easily to him.

Did you ever read about the 2 demonic races that corrupted other races into being demons? they were originally the Eredar and Nethrezim. The Eredar were retcon'd making the Nethrezim the only pure Demon race until that is Retcon'd, but Fel, or demonism seems to be more magical in its corruption, rather than a disease. Thus any race with magic affinity can turn themselves into Demons, we just haven't seen it yet, but my guess is thats how the first demons came about. But to think a race that has little to no magic affinity(pitlords) are an original race is laughable. Succubi are female Eredar btw, you probably didn't know that :/
But would you agree Satyrs are demons?

Like you qouted, remember the Necrophytes, no? cause you probably didn't read Tides of Darkness

A that he was, he just never summoned any.

---------- Post added 2010-08-29 at 04:49 AM ----------

And the pitlords aswell? You just said they're "mutated annihilan", wich is not...

Every single Highborne of the ones "abusing the Well" got mutated. Even the ones who willingly accepted (or the ones who were forced to)
to join Xavius for more powers and then mutating even more into Satyrs.

Being empowered by Demoinic powers doesn't make you a DEMON.

Being empowered by Old God's corruption doesn't make you an Old God.

See the link?


Oh, so, in a few years, 15 new Demon races got addes?

No. The only new demon races, iirc, are Mo'Arg, Void terrors and Shivarras, this highly cut them down to 10.



Necrolytes, well no.

Actually Gul'Dan even killed them to create the DKs.

Dreadlords and their not yet seen cousins are so far the only natural Demons. I dont believe pitlords are mutated, just like Dont believe satyrs are mutated. But by your logic, they must be if Satyrs are.
Satyrs were started by Xavius, who was reborn as one thanks to Sargeras, who says he made him in his own IMAGE. He also gave him the means to turn others into Satyrs aswell. Abusing the Well, first they have been doing it for 1000's of years, its how they supposedly evolved from trolls. But if anyone abused it more then anyone else, I'd say it was the chick who's Balcony was right there at it, and who also was quite more powerful then any other. She however never became a satyr or a demon or a monster(only until an old god helped her)
If turned the Eredar into demons then, why do you think this is any different?

let me use pokemon as an example, 10 years ago, there were 151 pokemon, then there were like 251? just like that, there were like 10 Demon races, now theres a lot more. I dont mean that they picked up some new ones since, but I mean you can count them all and point out if I'm off be a couple but I think even saying 10 is more then what they had before tBC.

He finalized the Death Knights then. XD

[Aemetha]

Anyone else see the similarities here with Raymond E Feists writing? Old gods = Valheru, Titans = New gods.

[Lolretadin]

Did you ever read about the 2 demonic races that corrupted other races into being demons? they were originally the Eredar and Nethrezim. The Eredar were retcon'd making the Nethrezim the only pure Demon race until that is Retcon'd, but Fel, or demonism seems to be more magical in its corruption, rather than a disease. Thus any race with magic affinity can turn themselves into Demons, we just haven't seen it yet, but my guess is thats how the first demons came about. But to think a race that has little to no magic affinity(pitlords) are an original race is laughable. Succubi are female Eredar btw, you probably didn't know that :/
But would you agree Satyrs are demons?

Ok, now I can't tell if you're trolling or not. Succubi AREN'T female Eredar. I don't know where you got that from, its wrong. The male Succubi is an Inccubi, not an Eredar. Also, the origonal lore doesn't matter anymore. I know the whole Eredar and Nathrezim thing but nowhere did it say that many of the other Demon races were just corrupted. Even if it did, it wouldn't matter at this point. Current lore > past lore.

Satyrs are somthing thats borderline. They aren't TECHNECALLY Demons. A Demon is something you are born, but that being said you can see the transition from Highbourne to Satyr as a rebirth into a new life. Either way, I tend to treat them similar to Bloodelves jacked up on Fel Magics. They aren't Demons but they are corrupt. Now, I'm not saying either perspective is wrong since Satyr underwent MANY more changed than the Bloodelves did but Fel Magics effect everyone and every race differently. So the Highbourne's transformation into the Satyr could just have been that.

[Jadugarr]

go read the book, most likely the 3rd. But I will agree with you in the fact that though they say this, they also say that with Deathwing(nelfarion) that could have defeated the Old Gods. And another contradicting statement is that they say their no match for sargeras.

It makes me think of Rock Paper scizzors...

It's not up to me to prove you wrong, it's up to you to prove yourself right. Give an exact quote or it's inadmissable.

[Iplaygoats]

From what i read sargas has this aura right? and it burns you if ur close to it and stuff im pretty sure the reason the well of eternity needed to be shut down and drowned so he wouldnt come though was the minute he got here the world would have shattered even more than what deathwing is about to do, to it. his presence alone would kill every old god.

---------- Post added 2010-08-28 at 09:08 PM ----------

in otherwords...sargas is a real bad ass

[In Ogres We Trust]

Sargeras = Leader of The Burning Legion & Ex-Champion of the Titans
Titans = The Creators of the Universe
Old Gods = Defeated by the Titans

Pretty easy to answer this thread.

[kampfer]

Ok, now I can't tell if you're trolling or not. Succubi AREN'T female Eredar. I don't know where you got that from, its wrong. The male Succubi is an Inccubi, not an Eredar. Also, the origonal lore doesn't matter anymore. I know the whole Eredar and Nathrezim thing but nowhere did it say that many of the other Demon races were just corrupted. Even if it did, it wouldn't matter at this point. Current lore > past lore.

Satyrs are somthing thats borderline. They aren't TECHNECALLY Demons. A Demon is something you are born, but that being said you can see the transition from Highbourne to Satyr as a rebirth into a new life. Either way, I tend to treat them similar to Bloodelves jacked up on Fel Magics. They aren't Demons but they are corrupt. Now, I'm not saying either perspective is wrong since Satyr underwent MANY more changed than the Bloodelves did but Fel Magics effect everyone and every race differently. So the Highbourne's transformation into the Satyr could just have been that.

just looked them up and I guess you are right. I was always under the impression that Succubi were lesser female Eredar since only 3 powerful ones had the unique design. But that same statement that I read, also states that there has yet to be any males. http://www.wowwiki.com/Succubi
But to be abusing or using Demonism and to be remade in Sargeras' image is 2 very different thnigs. There is no decline in appearance like Fel Orcs or those weird Blood Elves, its a whole new shape creature that was born of Demon magic.

A Demon is something you are born? Well since demons dont die of old age, that we know of and since Kiljaedin's main purpose is to find new species to corrupt, I can go ahead and say that most of Burning Legion may have been turned into Demons, rather then be born, but I dont deny they can reproduce, since the Satyrs have been doing it.

---------- Post added 2010-08-29 at 05:20 AM ----------

Titans = The Creators of the Universe

Pretty easy to answer this thread.

no, never, guess again

[Aemetha]

Gotta agree... Demon's don't have to be born, they can be made. Kil'jaeden and Archimonde were born Eredar, and became Manari Eredar after Sargeras empowered them.

[catablitz]

In that staement, the latter would be sargeras and the former(S) would be the old gods, yet you say that Sargeras is Chaos and old gods are order.... O.o do you know what Chaos and order really mean? a Burnnig legion of Demons assimilated into the army to grow and has leadership and ranks is EvilOrder. The Old Gods who want to destroy/corrupt and kill every thing, I mean their whispers are just Chaotic to begin with. Whoever they corrupt, usually goes insane. What was C'thun, old god of insanity right? Yogg was death? that makes them ChaoticEvil

I know exactly what I said and how I said it. You read but you dont understand.
Sargeras seeks to undo life and let chaos rule the universe as this is what he believes the natural form of existence. On the other hand old gods, evil as well, seek -on top of corruption- to have a kingdom to rule. They had citadels and religious leaders. I dont think its that hard to undestand the difference.

[DeathGodInATutu]

I guess Sargeras can't stab Azeroth now anymore.

[Mrjon]

I don't care who is more powerful, but I do care that the Burning Legion is boring, has been overused, and is only good for constantly failing in the Warcraft Universe (in terms of Azeroth). I for one welcome our new old god overlords.

[Deleted]

Neither would win. Leeroy Jenkins would run in and wipe the raid.

[Raphael24]

actually an old god is stronger than any titan (including sargeras)...
in the novel war of the ancient, the last chapter of the sundering stated :
They felt the nearness of their freedom quickly approaching. How ironic that it would be one who had once been one of the hated Titans who would prove the instrument of their release! It had taken the combined might of many Titans to even force them into captivity; after their triumphant return, there would be little effort needed to eradicate this single, arrogant creature (sargeras) and turn his warriors to serving their (old gods) cause.

[Rednaxella]

Sargeras = Leader of The Burning Legion & Ex-Champion of the Titans
Titans = The Creators of the Universe
Old Gods = Defeated by the Titans

Pretty easy to answer this thread.

1: Yep, albeit the lesser ones in the Legion.
2: Nope, they were just created with the universe, they are the caretakers of it, not the creators of everything. They remade worlds, but they did not make them in the first place.
3: No, imprisoned. And this was with all the titans and their minions working together in a massive war did they manage to finally bind them, and with great losses for the Titans. The Titans nearly lost too, but what turned the tide was they shattered the bonds between the mortal realm and the elemental plain, imprisoning the Elementals. And Sargeras is 1 titan, and a lesser one at that. The shattering of Gorshalach made Sargeras lose most of his power, now his main power is in the Legion which would still be crushed by the Old Gods alone, much less with their servants.