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  1. #1

    FFXIV Fatigue System

    For those of you that have been keeping an eye on this game, don't expect to spend a lot of time on the game. Like a typical Japanese developer blunder (i.e. huge), SE has decided that in order to appeal to casual gamers they're going to punish any and all hardcore gamers with the launch of FFXIV.

    They've implemented, and have had in since alpha, an experience fatigue system.

    The short of it is you get 15 hours, per *WEEK*, to level. For the first 8 hours, you'll gain normal experience. Then, for the next 7 hours you'll lose 10% experience gain per hour, resulting in 0% experience after the 15th hour has passed. This isn't speculation. This isn't a rumor. This is verified:

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobuaki Komoto
    We’d like to thank all the beta testers out there for their hard work and support! We’re applying all those ideas you’ve sent us to make for the best possible Open Beta test and official release.

    Now we’d like to take a moment to answer the many questions we’ve received about character balance in the current B3 phase.

    First off, the main concept behind FFXIV is allowing those players with little time on their hands to play effectively, and game balance is based off of that. Furthermore, it is being designed to not give those with more time on their hands to play an unfair advantage. Because of that, systems such as Guardian’s Favor (a bonus to Guildleves) have been implemented to make leveling in the short-term easier than leveling in the long-term.

    To achieve this balance, the amount of possible skill/experience points earned after a certain period of time has a threshold. Think of it as real-life “fatigue” from working at improving your skills via battle *(aka. No one could train ad nauseam in the real world with no ill effects).

    Within the first eight hours of play, you can earn 100% experience. The seven hour period following will see your possible experience gradually approach zero.

    This system is on a weekly timer. After a week has passed since you began skilling that particular weapon, the timer will reset. It will start anew when you skill up again.

    Any experience earned past that point is saved as “surplus.” There is surplus for each class, and if you begin to see it please consider playing another class and adjust accordingly.

    However, experience points are not specific to any class and therefore the decrease in experience points is not affected by changing classes.

    That’s how the system stands as of right now.

    Also, this system wasn’t implemented just in B3 but was set in motion from the very start of beta. Despite this, we have received many opinions regarding it in B3. There are a few reasons why:

    -B3 allowed for longer sessions in single sittings.
    -In order to promote party play, skill/experience points earned were greatly increased.
    -The skill/experience earned from weak enemies was lowered, but had failed to pop up on initial bug reports (and was later fixed via maintenance).

    According to the last bug report skill/experience able to be earned was above what had been planned, therefore people hit the limit much more quickly than hoped for. That is the biggest cause. Yet another problem was that we were unable to adjust guildleve experience and the experience-earned limit at the same time.

    Our lack of explanation regarding all of this was a mistake, and we heartily apologize.

    This all is still currently under development, and we have plans to make the limit more palatable in answer to all the tester feedback we received concerning this. In particular we would like to address the speed with which experience begins to drop off and are already looking into it.
    Also, since experience points fatigue carries over despite changing weapons, we plan to make it not so harsh.

    At the very least, we promise to not have people hitting these limits in a short period of time, such as during the start of B3.

    We would also like to make an announcement regarding something else.

    The decrease in earnings when gathering is based on your actions taken with that class and is unrelated to the aforementioned limits. This is also currently under review and is planned for adjustment in accordance with many testers’ opinions.

    Surplus experience is currently not being used. However, we have received many comments suggesting some sort of reward be put into effect regarding it, and we think that’s a pretty interesting idea. We don’t want to get ahead of ourselves, though, and we’re currently investigating the possibilities.

    Open Beta will not just see changes to the issues stated above but will also see adjustments made to encourage party play even more (such as an increase to skill points), which the team is currently hard at work on adjusting. We hope you’ll all test it out when the time comes.

    Finally, we would like to apologize for the lateness of any developer comments due to my attendance of Gamecom this past week. In my absence much fuss was raised over speculation, old information and some mistranslations on overseas fansites *(what?! /panic. Though I wonder what that’s in reference to in particular). I hope to avoid this from happening again by delivering developer comments as promptly as possible. Thank you all for your understanding.

    And thanks in advance for your hard work to come in Open Beta!

    Final Fantasy XIV director
    Nobuaki Komoto
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    http://minus-k.com/nejitsu/loader/up63060.jpg

    I was fairly interested in this game. But the majority of problems I've seen in the beta (problems that aren't just 'slight testing errors') as well as the number of just fucking moronic mechanics they've put into the game as to deter RMT has dwindled that into nothing. I don't think I've ever, ever, seen a gaming company this out of touch with reality. Then again, after the absolute shitfest that was FFXIII I shouldn't be surprised. Square hasn't had a *great* game since their merger with Enix over a decade ago.

    See, there was this game company that was well known for the RTS games. They wanted to make an MMO of their fantasy RTS world, and thought to put in a similar experience penalty system. After two weeks of testing (and hearing the feedback on the system), the company realized how retarded it was and put in rested experience. Sadly, SE developers aren't intelligent enough to actually *LISTEN* to their testers, and this system will go live.

    I'm not telling people to cancel pre-orders or anything, but figured I should bring this to attention anyone that's interested and doesn't know about it. I know that this system in itself, no matter how much further they relax it, is retarded beyond belief, and will do nothing but drive people away after box sales come in.

  2. #2
    Epic! Darios's Avatar
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    heard about that... definitely a game breaker, at least for me

  3. #3
    Yeah, and the worst thing? Their collector's edition gives people an 8 day "head start". With this system, you only really get 12.5 hours of experience (8 + 7 decayed = 12.5). So you're spending close to 100 bucks for not even a 1/3 of a day's head start on leveling.

  4. #4
    I am Murloc! Thallidomaniac's Avatar
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    I also believe Blizzard implemented such of a system early during WoW's development, but the players disagreed, and thus that was axed from WoW and lead to the Rested/Normal XP today. I don't count on SE doing the same for this mistake though.
    Last edited by Thallidomaniac; 2010-08-26 at 01:45 AM.

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  5. #5
    Field Marshal Ikarus's Avatar
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    I totally agree with you on the fact that Square hasn't released any decent freaking games since their merge with Enix, I did enjoy Kingdom Hearts however since I've watched disney since a kid, and am hoping the 3rd one will be as good as the 2 previous ones.

    OT: Are you sh*tting me!? They are doing exactly the polar opposite of what they should be doing !
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  6. #6
    And SE is going to turn around and be suprised when their game tanks in the face of competition.

    Or more likey, never even gets off the ground.

  7. #7
    Yes, ever since Enix became the 51% share holder... I think they have been trying to kill Final Fantasy slowly while milking as much money out of it as possible.


    But yes, I am not too fond of the system either.

    But what scares me even more is something people haven't realized yet.

    Crafting is the ONLY way to get new weapons and decent armor upgrades. Guild leves will provide some armor but its like getting greys in WoW, and only around 3 every two days because remember(there are 8 slots to do guild leves but you only get three level appropriate in that time period.)

    In beta I watched a handful of crafters get rich by being the first to make the weapons then corner the market on all the materials used to make them.

    Many players got to level 25(half the level cap) and NEVER upgraded from their starter weapon because of the immense price they charge for them.

    The economy is going to be pretty terrible.

  8. #8
    The information you posted is wrong. Either a bad translation from the Japanese or parts of it left out to make the game look bad.

    And besides that the tresholds are still being examined and probably adjusted.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheshi View Post
    The information you posted is wrong. Either a bad translation from the Japanese or parts of it left out to make the game look bad.

    And besides that the tresholds are still being examined and probably adjusted.
    You need to work on your reading comprehension, because right now you're looking incredibly stupid.

    What I posted, is what a Square-Enix EMPLOYEE himself posted on the beta forums. You know, someone actually working for Square-Enix and posts on their behalf? Of course, in your random weeaboo fanboy moment I guess you forgot that I linked, and quoted, that, didn't you?

    EDIT: My point still stands. The "information is wrong" Cheshi is trying to insitigate is in regards to an official post that was (yet again) made today to offer a new spin on the whole fatigue system. A lot of the negative connotation was taken out to try to make it sound "positive" but the fact remains that if you like a class and play it exclusively, you're going to get penalized while trying to level.

    Neverless, here's the "new" post:
    Once again, we would like to thank you all for your participation and support during the Closed Beta. We will continue to take your valuable feedback into consideration as we develop the game during Open Beta and even beyond the official release.

    Now I would like to take a moment to respond to the many questions and opinions regarding the manner in and rates at which experience and skill points are obtained in Beta 3.

    Firstly, the concept for FINAL FANTASY XIV was to design a system of character progression that offers meaningful advancement for those with limited time to dedicate to playing. We did not want to create a game that forced people to play for hours on end to see their efforts rewarded. To that end, in addition to the Guardian's Aspect and guildleve systems, we introduced a means of apportioning swifter advancement to shorter periods of play.

    In order to achieve this balance, we calculated a value for the amount of skill or experience points that could be earned in a one-hour period. This theoretical value represents an hour spent engaged solely in combat, levequests, or any other activities that earn skill or experience points, and sets a threshold delimiting how many of these points can be earned in a period of play.

    Based on this, we have implemented a “threshold value” concept. These thresholds are regulated by a one-week timer that begins counting down the instant you earn skill/experience points. After a week has passed, the thresholds will reset, and the moment skill/experience points are earned again, the timer begins counting down anew.

    For the first eight thresholds during this week-long period, players will receive skill/experience points at the maximum rate possible. The actual amount of time spent reaching these thresholds is not significant. That is to say, a player who exceeds eight hours of gameplay will still be rewarded the maximum amount of skill/experience points, so long as the total amount earned is below the eighth threshold value. For the subsequent seven thresholds, players will earn skill/experience points at a gradually decreasing rate, eventually reaching a rate of zero.

    It is worth noting, however, that the reduced rate will also gradually recover while players are engaged in activities that do not yield skill/experience points. In this manner, it is possible for the threshold value to reset completely, even before the completion of the one-week timer.

    Any skill points earned in excess of the threshold maximum—that is, at a rate of zero—will be stored as "bonus skill points." These are specific to each class, so players limited to earning bonus skill points still have the freedom to change classes and begin earning skill points again at the maximum rate, allowing their reduced skill rates to recover in the meantime.

    The experience point threshold, however, is unrelated to class, and switching classes will have no effect on the decreasing rate of earnable experience.

    This is how the progression system currently works.

    This system was not introduced in Beta 3, but has been in place since the beginning of beta testing. There are several reasons why many people believe that these features were only recently implemented:

    - Leading into Beta 3, operation hours were extended, making it possible to play more often during the span of a week.
    - To encourage players to form guidleve parties in Beta 3, skill and experience point rewards for guildleves were significantly increased.
    - The process that reduced the amount of skill/experience points awarded for weak enemies attacking in groups was unintentionally removed at the start of Beta 3. (This issue has been addressed.)

    That last reason in particular was the biggest cause for players running up against the threshold penalty, with characters earning far more skill/experience points than we anticipated. We also faced an issue where we were simultaneously unable to adjust the amount earned for guildleves as well as the effects of crossing each threshold.

    We sincerely apologize for the lack of explanation and our failure to make the necessary adjustments in the game.

    The threshold values are being reexamined, and we plan to further adjust the different rates of earnable points based on feedback from our testers. One of the top issues we are looking at right now is fixing the excessively rapid drop after crossing the eighth threshold. We also plan to improve experience point reduction rates, even more so than for skill points, considering the threshold is unaffected when changing class.

    At the very least, we can promise that players won't be running into the threshold penalty in the same short time span as they did in the beginning of Beta 3.

    We would like to take this opportunity to also explain the following issues.

    The diminishing results experienced during gathering are a function related to that class alone, and have no connection to this progression system. We are in the process of adjusting this system, and plan to make changes based on tester feedback.

    We are currently in the process of considering the means in which bonus skill points can be used. There have been suggestions for various types of incentives, but as encouraging people to play with that in mind defeats the purpose of this threshold system, we will be examining this issue very carefully.

    These are not the only adjustments we have planned for Open Beta. As mentioned previously, we are looking into increasing the amount of skill points earned when fighting in a party, and we look forward to seeing your input on these changes.

    Last of all, I would like to apologize for the delay in releasing a developer's comment due to my recent attendance to Gamescom. The article based on my interview during that trip, coupled with conjecture, outdated information, and some misunderstandings on overseas websites, only added to the confusion. In the future, I hope to avoid similar problems by responding directly through official developer's comments as often as possible. Thank you for your understanding.

    See you in the Open Beta Testing!

    FINAL FANTASY XIV Director
    Nobuaki Komoto
    Absolutely nothing new was said. It's the exact same message, but doctored up to take out as much "negative" sounding words as possible. Only Square-Enix fanbase could listen to a producer say it's "fatigue system" one day and the next try to spin it as "bonus experience, that we're not going to do anything with" and have people honestly believe it.
    Last edited by Viertel; 2010-08-27 at 04:49 AM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Viertel View Post
    You need to work on your reading comprehension, because right now you're looking incredibly stupid.

    What I posted, is what a Square-Enix EMPLOYEE himself posted on the beta forums. You know, someone actually working for Square-Enix and posts on their behalf? Of course, in your random weeaboo fanboy moment I guess you forgot that I linked, and quoted, that, didn't you?

    EDIT: My point still stands. The "information is wrong" Cheshi is trying to insitigate is in regards to an official post that was (yet again) made today to offer a new spin on the whole fatigue system. A lot of the negative connotation was taken out to try to make it sound "positive" but the fact remains that if you like a class and play it exclusively, you're going to get penalized while trying to level.

    Neverless, here's the "new" post:


    Absolutely nothing new was said. It's the exact same message, but doctored up to take out as much "negative" sounding words as possible. Only Square-Enix fanbase could listen to a producer say it's "fatigue system" one day and the next try to spin it as "bonus experience, that we're not going to do anything with" and have people honestly believe it.
    How am I wrong? I was refering to the bad translation from the Japanese post. If you read both the translation and the official English post you notice a big difference. Assuming you are also in the beta and have access to the official beta forum you should know how it will be implemented in B3.

    It is not exactly 8 hours before you will reciever reduced exp. It is after recieveiving the amount of exp you where able to get if you grinded for 8 hours non stop. Traveling, being in a city and other activities that won't give you exp do not count. Also if you are not busy getting exp or if you are offline you will get some of that time back.

    They will also look into a bonus you will get when reachig the exp cap.

    The limit is class specific. You can still level an other class skill is you stop getting exp on one class skill.

    It is just a different way of balancing the game between people who play 10 hours a day and those with a job. Where most other games use rested bonus, SE is trying something different. Final Fantasy games are not about rushing to max level.


    Now compare what I just said with your original post and see the differance and why I said it was wrong information.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheshi View Post
    How am I wrong? I was refering to the bad translation from the Japanese post. If you read both the translation and the official English post you notice a big difference. Assuming you are also in the beta and have access to the official beta forum you should know how it will be implemented in B3.

    It is not exactly 8 hours before you will reciever reduced exp. It is after recieveiving the amount of exp you where able to get if you grinded for 8 hours non stop. Traveling, being in a city and other activities that won't give you exp do not count. Also if you are not busy getting exp or if you are offline you will get some of that time back.

    They will also look into a bonus you will get when reachig the exp cap.

    The limit is class specific. You can still level an other class skill is you stop getting exp on one class skill.

    It is just a different way of balancing the game between people who play 10 hours a day and those with a job. Where most other games use rested bonus, SE is trying something different. Final Fantasy games are not about rushing to max level.


    Now compare what I just said with your original post and see the differance and why I said it was wrong information.
    Again, read what was written instead of reading what you want. Your reading comprehension is still severely lacking. Both posts say the exact same thing. The only difference is that the second is sugar coated so that people will fall for this trap --- people like you apparently.

    It isn't "a different way to balance". If you honestly believe that, you're grade A fucking retarded. It's a system in place to stall players from hitting the level cap because there will be no end-game -- which is confirmed that'll take a few months. There is no justification for it. NONE. It's a means to stall for more development time because they shot themselves in the foot announcing a release when the ALPHA was not even 4 months prior to that release date (then again, considering most of the game's just rehashed FFXI elements I'm not surprised they thought they could make it).

    Frankly, you're trying to justify a horrible system and give SE credit for telling people when and how they're going to play. Your opinion on this matter is completely invalidated.
    Last edited by Viertel; 2010-08-27 at 09:57 PM. Reason: Tags

  12. #12
    Actually there is plenty of justification for it - but I won't go into that because you obviously don't listen to reasonable arguments or logic. And it is about balance, it is about limiting 'no-life' players playing 40 hours straight to get unfair advantages, it is about making players explore the class system and try out different combination's - if you can't see that, then go and play a different game like World of Warcraft because obviously this isn't for you.

    Also - leveling one class exclusively in a game like this will just make you horrible at the game (Just like in XI). This isn't WoW, you don't have to play one class exclusively all the time. You can mix&match skills from different classes, which is part of the reason this was implemented.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Deladeu View Post
    Actually there is plenty of justification for it - but I won't go into that because you obviously don't listen to reasonable arguments or logic. And it is about balance, it is about limiting 'no-life' players playing 40 hours straight to get unfair advantages, it is about making players explore the class system and try out different combination's - if you can't see that, then go and play a different game like World of Warcraft because obviously this isn't for you.

    Also - leveling one class exclusively in a game like this will just make you horrible at the game (Just like in XI). This isn't WoW, you don't have to play one class exclusively all the time. You can mix&match skills from different classes, which is part of the reason this was implemented.
    I listen well to logic and common sense.

    You have spoke none of either.

    Logic would dictate that people will play other classes and test out combinations if the system is interesting. Common sense states that punishing people for playing a class they *LIKE* (which is what all the defenders fail to realize) does nothing but make people want to NOT play.

  14. #14
    Hmmm, is it possible to crash and burn before even getting off the ground?

    I mean, really, they make NCsoft games look good
    Last edited by Zero44556; 2010-08-28 at 04:50 PM.
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  15. #15
    Bloodsail Admiral Overmind the 3rd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleepless Dreams View Post
    Yes, ever since Enix became the 51% share holder... I think they have been trying to kill Final Fantasy slowly while milking as much money out of it as possible.
    They know that no matter what they do, the Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy brands will continue to sell.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero44556 View Post
    Hmmm, is it possible to crash and burn before even getting off the ground?
    According to evidence from the aerospace industry, yes.
    Last edited by Overmind the 3rd; 2010-08-28 at 05:43 PM.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheshi View Post
    How am I wrong? I was refering to the bad translation from the Japanese post. If you read both the translation and the official English post you notice a big difference. Assuming you are also in the beta and have access to the official beta forum you should know how it will be implemented in B3.

    It is not exactly 8 hours before you will reciever reduced exp. It is after recieveiving the amount of exp you where able to get if you grinded for 8 hours non stop. Traveling, being in a city and other activities that won't give you exp do not count. Also if you are not busy getting exp or if you are offline you will get some of that time back.

    They will also look into a bonus you will get when reachig the exp cap.

    The limit is class specific. You can still level an other class skill is you stop getting exp on one class skill.

    It is just a different way of balancing the game between people who play 10 hours a day and those with a job. Where most other games use rested bonus, SE is trying something different. Final Fantasy games are not about rushing to max level.


    Now compare what I just said with your original post and see the differance and why I said it was wrong information.
    Regardless, having a cap on EXP gain a day/etc is just plain stupid. That will kill the game for a MASSIVE amount of people, unless it's changed obviously. And so wait, if someone chooses to play for 10 hours (since you know, they PAID for the game) they can't because the game company 'cares' about people with a job? Having a job doesn't mean you can't play MMO's much, usually when people say that they just suck hardcore at time management.
    Last edited by Hayro1; 2010-08-28 at 07:58 PM.

  17. #17
    Let me clear this up, I have been following the game from the time it has been announced. The way the exp is going to work is you get 15 hours a week PER job, so there are 15 jobs you can choose from. If you want to get 100% exp for each job play each one for 8 hours that will give you 120 hours a week of 100% exp, giving you a total of 225 hours a week until you hit the 0% limit.

    The exp system is to have you play more then 1 job not just 1 specific job which also prevents you to pull WoW shit where you can get to end game in just a couple days. I see the system as a way to make you experience every aspect of the game rather being limited to just 1 path.

    If you want more of a clarification watch this video that was made by someone who is in the beta. watch?v=Yt8sp6rABFc

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by megiechan View Post
    Let me clear this up, I have been following the game from the time it has been announced. The way the exp is going to work is you get 15 hours a week PER job, so there are 15 jobs you can choose from. If you want to get 100% exp for each job play each one for 8 hours that will give you 120 hours a week of 100% exp, giving you a total of 225 hours a week until you hit the 0% limit.

    The exp system is to have you play more then 1 job not just 1 specific job which also prevents you to pull WoW shit where you can get to end game in just a couple days. I see the system as a way to make you experience every aspect of the game rather being limited to just 1 path.

    If you want more of a clarification watch this video that was made by someone who is in the beta. watch?v=Yt8sp6rABFc
    Congratulations, you can somewhat read and then jump to the wrong conclusion.

    Fatigue system is to benefit a failing development team that will launch an MMO in 2010 with absolutely zero endgame content (and won't for months). This system has absolutely ZERO benefit for the player. The only 'benefits' are piss-poor half-ass arguments by beaten fanboys, and all they shout are "BUT... SE SAID HE LOVES ME!"

    Or, in the case of you, a random retard trying to bash WoW and attribute that to a "bonus feature" of FFXIV.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Viertel View Post
    Congratulations, you can somewhat read and then jump to the wrong conclusion.

    Fatigue system is to benefit a failing development team that will launch an MMO in 2010 with absolutely zero endgame content (and won't for months). This system has absolutely ZERO benefit for the player. The only 'benefits' are piss-poor half-ass arguments by beaten fanboys, and all they shout are "BUT... SE SAID HE LOVES ME!"

    Or, in the case of you, a random retard trying to bash WoW and attribute that to a "bonus feature" of FFXIV.
    Tell me how I am jumping to the wrong conclusion of things? It's not 15 hours across the board, a lot of people on the Beta have stated that if you exp for 8 hours on say Lancer when the 100% stop's being 100%, you then switch to say Maraudor and you exp for 4 hours at that point you can switch back to Lancer and get about another hour of 100% exp gain within that job. I suggest you goto youtube and watch RocsLock's videos he has posted as well as all the comments.

  20. #20
    Oh yes, Youtube. Clearly Joe Bob's Youtube video tells the truth and can't possibly be biased in any way shape or form. Man, what is it "The Most Retarded Final Fantasy Fans Come Out of the Woodwork" week or something? These mouth breathers are on the SE Defense force worse than shit on velcro.

    I also find it humorous that instead of trying to say why my argument against the fatigue system is wrong (it isn't), you decide to talk about Youtube.

    You.

    Tube.

    And no, a lot of people do not talk about how easy it is to avoid surplus EXP. Quite the opposite in fact on any decently run forum, and the common complaint is that they can't do anything because as of NOW it is actually shared across all classes and kicks in at random times. The common trend is to log out and log back in, with a randomly determined number of battles until they start to experience fatigue again. But, you're too busy watching Youtube to actually read, so I understand.

    (NOTE: I do not bash all FF fans. Only the retarded ones.)
    Last edited by Viertel; 2010-08-30 at 12:59 AM.

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