Lets discuss the fear mechanic.

[Nangz]

DISCLAIMER: This is mostly about BG pvp, in arena you have more coordination and better control over the situation. Your fears may get through because your team has other cc they can force trinkets and defensive fear breakers on. With BG pvp becoming a rated venue this becomes a legitimate concern.

Lets face it. Fear is a broken mechanic. It has been since vanilla. It is a spammable CC that renders the target useless, increases distance and doesn't always break on damage.

That mechanic on its own is insanely overpowered because if one is able to spam endless CC they will win in almost any situation: Arena or battlegrounds it doesn't matter.

Blizzard's solution has been to give nearly EVERY class ways to get out of fear in addition to will of the forsaken and the pvp trinket. Undead are usually the race of choice for pvp as they can break this form of cc that 3 classes posses that renders them helpless and vulnerable.

The problem is that so many classes, (melee expecially) have ways to break fear, that the ability is semi useless. Lets face it, i'm talking mostly about warlocks here although warriors and priests suffer some of the same problems (worse as theirs has a cooldown).

Warlock fear is used for a few different things.

Interrupting casts: Long casts only
Offensive CC
Defensive CC

Looking at the melee classes which tends to be clothies most vital threat its easy to see why fear has become a bad mechanic.

Warriors: Can break fears for 10 secs every 30 secs. Not including pvp trinket and will of the forsaken.
Rogues: Cloak can break fears and make them fairly unstoppable for 5 secs on a min 30 sec cooldown. Will of the forsaken and pvp trinket
DKs: Lichbourne and anti magic shell plus will of the forsaken and pvp trinket
Enhancement shammies: Tremor totem, spammable fear breaker. Pvp trinket
Paladins: Holy cow the only class without a fear break by default, pvp trinket although they could bubble a fear i guess.
Feral druids: Berserk aka 15 secs (21 with glyph) of fearlessness. 3 min cooldown. Pvp trinket.

Looking ahead untill cataclysm I see a few contradictions:

Blizzard states they increased the cast time of cc abilities because hasted casts were too hard to counter. The melee classes I listed have numerous ways to escape the fear after it has connected so is this really a necessary change? Especially considering that every class on that list will be able to interupt come cataclysm they all just gained 10 sec cooldown fear stoppers.


TL: DR

Fear needs a change. While the ability itself is a powerful one it is too easily countered and the counters completely outweigh the worth.

[Lolgreks]

Make fear stationary , Break on dmg and horrify effect instead of a fear? you can even have a glyph that removes all dots when fearing
????

win?

[muto]

cloak doesn't break fear it just prevents it.

[Nangz]

cloak doesn't break fear it just prevents it.

I don't know how to respond to this. Either me playing my warlock for 3 years in pvp have all been lies or one of us fails at paying attention. Either way someone looks foolish.

[Deleted]

DISCLAIMER: This is mostly about BG pvp, in arena you have more coordination and better control over the situation. Your fears may get through because your team has other cc they can force trinkets and defensive fear breakers on. With BG pvp becoming a rated venue this becomes a legitimate concern.

Lets face it. Fear is a broken mechanic. It has been since vanilla. It is a spammable CC that renders the target useless, increases distance and doesn't always break on damage.

That mechanic on its own is insanely overpowered because if one is able to spam endless CC they will win in almost any situation: Arena or battlegrounds it doesn't matter.

Blizzard's solution has been to give nearly EVERY class ways to get out of fear in addition to will of the forsaken and the pvp trinket. Undead are usually the race of choice for pvp as they can break this form of cc that 3 classes posses that renders them helpless and vulnerable.

The problem is that so many classes, (melee expecially) have ways to break fear, that the ability is semi useless. Lets face it, i'm talking mostly about warlocks here although warriors and priests suffer some of the same problems (worse as theirs has a cooldown).

Warlock fear is used for a few different things.

Interrupting casts: Long casts only
Offensive CC
Defensive CC

Looking at the melee classes which tends to be clothies most vital threat its easy to see why fear has become a bad mechanic.

Warriors: Can break fears for 10 secs every 30 secs. Not including pvp trinket and will of the forsaken.
Rogues: Cloak can break fears and make them fairly unstoppable for 5 secs on a min 30 sec cooldown. Will of the forsaken and pvp trinket
DKs: Lichbourne and anti magic shell plus will of the forsaken and pvp trinket
Enhancement shammies: Tremor totem, spammable fear breaker. Pvp trinket
Paladins: Holy cow the only class without a fear break by default, pvp trinket although they could bubble a fear i guess.
Feral druids: Berserk aka 15 secs (21 with glyph) of fearlessness. 3 min cooldown. Pvp trinket.

Looking ahead untill cataclysm I see a few contradictions:

Blizzard states they increased the cast time of cc abilities because hasted casts were too hard to counter. The melee classes I listed have numerous ways to escape the fear after it has connected so is this really a necessary change? Especially considering that every class on that list will be able to interupt come cataclysm they all just gained 10 sec cooldown fear stoppers.


TL: DR

Fear needs a change. While the ability itself is a powerful one it is too easily countered and the counters completely outweigh the worth.

Fear is among very few CCs that actually allow you to damage the opponent while he's being CCed. Sheeps, traps, blinds, gouges etc etc etc except stuns, break on the 1st tick of any damage. Warlock fear lasts a while into damage and can also be reaplied with no cooldown.
In fact a warlock's fear is 2nd best cc in the game, after rogue stuns.

Also, warlocks have great burst. So great that unless they are targeted 1st, they can wreck any opposition within seconds.
The last thing warlocks need is a Fear that doesn't break on damage.

You don't want warlocks to become the new 3.0 retardin.

[Nangz]

Fear is among very few CCs that actually allow you to damage the opponent while he's being CCed. Sheeps, traps, blinds, gouges etc etc etc except stuns, break on the 1st tick of any damage. Warlock fear lasts a while into damage and can also be reaplied with no cooldown.
In fact a warlock's fear is 2nd best cc in the game, after rogue stuns.

Also, warlocks have great burst. So great that unless they are targeted 1st, they can wreck any opposition within seconds.
The last thing warlocks need is a Fear that doesn't break on damage.

You don't want warlocks to become the new 3.0 retardin.

That is precisely the problem while the CC is amazing, too many classes have ways to get out of it. The suggestion is to make it less amazing but less ways to get out of it and still turn it into a buff because lets face it, warlocks could use some help against every melee class.

[muto]

Cloak of Shadows

[Lolgreks]

I don't know how to respond to this. Either me playing my warlock for 3 years in pvp have all been lies or one of us fails at paying attention. Either way someone looks foolish.

I think you are the one looking foolish here.. no offence cloak doesn’t break mid fear it just has a 90% chance resisting getting feared when pre using. If I got 1 cent every time I get feared trough CoS id be rich

[grenolith]

Cloak cannot break any kind of CC, only give you a high chance to resist any magic ones (that is, if your lucky and RNG doesn't beat you down). As to the original point, no i dont think your right, fear is fine as it is, and i think blizzard said themselves that CC counters (and counters in general) will be downplayed in cata. So lets wait and see if your fear becomes as good / as "bad" as you want it to be

[fushio]

The blues said that all the CC and anti-CC abilities had becoming a continually escalating arms-race, and they are working to tone it down. Like many other things, we should wait until later in the beta to start the discussion.
On a side note, I wish they would fix fears to avoid players getting stuck in weird places while fleeing.

[Decatrance]

When something is enraged/beserked/lichborne/anti-magic shell or using cloak of shadows I can pretty much do nothing but jump around like an idiot for the entire duration on my warlock. There is in most cases literally nothing I can do, and being a clothy the 10+ second duration is easily enough to kill me/if not take an incredible amount of health off and make me play super defensively for the rest of the match. And that's not counting the bladestorms/stunlocks/silences and spell locks where I can't do anything either.


Fear is amazing as it is, but we depend on it way too heavily that if we're forced not to use it (which is often) we suffer too highly.

I personally don't think it's a problem with fear itself, but a problem with our escape mechanisms. Or rather lack thereof. We have Demonic Circle: Teleport and that's about it. And especially in battlegrounds it feels so clunky, very hard to actually use effectively and a giant 'I'm camping around here' sign. As much as I love teleporting around, I feel like I need a little something else to be able to do in those kind of moments - if my opponent pops enrage/lichborne etc and I portal away from him for the duration I cop a death-grip or charge immediately afterwards, and in the warriors case it's usually a charge-bladestorm combo breaker because I can't teleport away.

[Rukh]

Anti magic shell also only prevents fear, it doesn't break it.

[Pantelija]

So u want to make CC that has so many counters and has been nerfed over the years to nerf it more ?

Fear always break on damage and it breaks on 10% of your BASE HP (if u dont believe me go to AJ )

Only 1 class doesnt have counter to Fear , its warlock

Cyclone is more op than fear but we dont see anyone QQing about it ?

Fear is a double edged blade .

[Underskilled]

I have to agree, as a speaking as a destro warlock, fear is what keeps our clothie asses away from melee obliteration. The problem is fear does not scale, the better the gear gets, the worse fear is, because it will break faster. I'm at a point where if even immolate's casting damage crits, fear is gone, which combined with the ways to break fear that you mentioned, makes fear pretty damn useless.

[KresnikHellfire]

So u want to make CC that has so many counters and has been nerfed over the years to nerf it more ?

Fear always break on damage and it breaks on 10% of your BASE HP (if u dont believe me go to AJ )

Only 1 class doesnt have counter to Fear , its warlock

Cyclone is more op than fear but we dont see anyone QQing about it ?

Fear is a double edged blade .

There's plenty of QQ about cyclone, regularly.

Fear isn't really a double edged blade, it's just an insanely broken mechanic and needs reviewing before cataclysm, FOR EXAMPLE:

a) Fear breaks on mana burn, but not drain mana. Fear doesn't make on mana burn if target has a shield up. A lot of "not working as intended here" (And I have no idea why mana drain doesn't break fear)

b) Fear pathing is completely RNG and RNG is bad. How do you differentiate between a good player and a bad player when one player has a fear that fears the target right into the open (i.e., able to be globalled down really quickly in the current environment) and another player whose fear makes them stand on the spot a little, maybe duck back behind the pillar when you're trying to get them into the open.

c) Fear breaks on 10% of your max HP, yes, but 10% of your max HP is more than enough to take (for example) -> immolate, flame shock, at which point the elemental and the warlock can already be CHARGIN' THEIR LAZORS (i.e. lava burst, chaos bolt) and then subsequently be globalled by the conflag -> incinerate -> lightning bolt spam during deathcoil and shadowfury. You know the story, you've seen the pictures.

If you want to look at a "double edged blade", look no further than polymorph -> Breaks on 1 damage (not 10% of HP), heals the target to full during its duration and roots them in place. Fear is nothing like polymorph, and its currently quite broken. That's why there are so many counters to fear, but counters can only work for so long.

[Negrido]

I like fear the way it is and find your assertions at best inaccurate, and at worst bold faces lies.

Better warlock control and defense are issues I think blizz is currently looking at. But we don't need to be balanced around fear. Its more or less fine as it is.

[Pantelija]

There's plenty of QQ about cyclone, regularly.

Fear isn't really a double edged blade, it's just an insanely broken mechanic and needs reviewing before cataclysm, FOR EXAMPLE:

a) Fear breaks on mana burn, but not drain mana. Fear doesn't make on mana burn if target has a shield up. A lot of "not working as intended here" (And I have no idea why mana drain doesn't break fear)

b) Fear pathing is completely RNG and RNG is bad. How do you differentiate between a good player and a bad player when one player has a fear that fears the target right into the open (i.e., able to be globalled down really quickly in the current environment) and another player whose fear makes them stand on the spot a little, maybe duck back behind the pillar when you're trying to get them into the open.

c) Fear breaks on 10% of your max HP, yes, but 10% of your max HP is more than enough to take (for example) -> immolate, flame shock, at which point the elemental and the warlock can already be CHARGIN' THEIR LAZORS (i.e. lava burst, chaos bolt) and then subsequently be globalled by the conflag -> incinerate -> lightning bolt spam during deathcoil and shadowfury. You know the story, you've seen the pictures.

If you want to look at a "double edged blade", look no further than polymorph -> Breaks on 1 damage (not 10% of HP), heals the target to full during its duration and roots them in place. Fear is nothing like polymorph, and its currently quite broken. That's why there are so many counters to fear, but counters can only work for so long.

a) why would fear break on drain mana when drain mana causes no damage ?

b)its called FEAR ffs , u instill fear into target and target runs randomly in FEAR ...

c) Fear breaks on 10% of BASE HP not max base hp is your hp without gear (go to AJ if u dont believe me ) , and no u cant be globaled by conflag,CB etc combo anymore , u could back at 3.1 when noobs were doing PvP with 0-200 resi

double edged blade means sometimes it benefits u and sometimes it hurts u...

[Vizardlorde]

DISCLAIMER: This is mostly about BG pvp, in arena you have more coordination and better control over the situation. Your fears may get through because your team has other cc they can force trinkets and defensive fear breakers on. With BG pvp becoming a rated venue this becomes a legitimate concern.

Lets face it. Fear is a broken mechanic. It has been since vanilla. It is a spammable CC that renders the target useless, increases distance and doesn't always break on damage.

That mechanic on its own is insanely overpowered because if one is able to spam endless CC they will win in almost any situation: Arena or battlegrounds it doesn't matter.

Blizzard's solution has been to give nearly EVERY class ways to get out of fear in addition to will of the forsaken and the pvp trinket. Undead are usually the race of choice for pvp as they can break this form of cc that 3 classes posses that renders them helpless and vulnerable.

The problem is that so many classes, (melee expecially) have ways to break fear, that the ability is semi useless. Lets face it, i'm talking mostly about warlocks here although warriors and priests suffer some of the same problems (worse as theirs has a cooldown).

Warlock fear is used for a few different things.

Interrupting casts: Long casts only
Offensive CC
Defensive CC

Looking at the melee classes which tends to be clothies most vital threat its easy to see why fear has become a bad mechanic.

Warriors: Can break fears for 10 secs every 30 secs. Not including pvp trinket and will of the forsaken.
Rogues: Cloak can break fears and make them fairly unstoppable for 5 secs on a min 30 sec cooldown. Will of the forsaken and pvp trinket
DKs: Lichbourne and anti magic shell plus will of the forsaken and pvp trinket
Enhancement shammies: Tremor totem, spammable fear breaker. Pvp trinket
Paladins: Holy cow the only class without a fear break by default, pvp trinket although they could bubble a fear i guess.
Feral druids: Berserk aka 15 secs (21 with glyph) of fearlessness. 3 min cooldown. Pvp trinket.

Looking ahead untill cataclysm I see a few contradictions:

Blizzard states they increased the cast time of cc abilities because hasted casts were too hard to counter. The melee classes I listed have numerous ways to escape the fear after it has connected so is this really a necessary change? Especially considering that every class on that list will be able to interupt come cataclysm they all just gained 10 sec cooldown fear stoppers.


TL: DR

Fear needs a change. While the ability itself is a powerful one it is too easily countered and the counters completely outweigh the worth.

sorry bud from my point of view its op(2nd most op after cyclone from from my pov), its not your faut tho its that blizzard hates my class.
PS i play a paly... the horror of walking back to melee range /sigh

[wildcardNS]

Get rid of so many counters, make it stationary, and give it a SHORT cooldown (10-15 seconds). Or keep it spammable but break on damage. My opinion only =]

Fear is in a good place right now, but it could be so much better.

[Judicium]

Warlocks are more than fine. The increased cast time on CC in cata is absolutely warranted. Nothing makes me more angry than being on my DK or warrior and trying to interrupt or spell reflect a 1 second cast, and due to the nature of those interrupts not getting it because of lolhaste.