1. #1
    Blademaster Flidro's Avatar
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    MM Aimed Shot during Haste observations

    Hi, I have been playing MM the past two weeks and quite like the direction it is going. In fact, this is how I wish MM was played in Cata. I was never really a fan of hardcasting Aimed Shot but I went with it because it was best and it was very risk/reward which made it quite thrilling on fights where you could find the time to flatfoot to charge up that Aimed Shot. These days, it's recommended to hardcast Aimed Shot during haste effects like Bloodlust and Rapid Fire but I feel this isn't necessarily true anymore. In fact, the only time you'll want to hardcast Aimed Shot is during Careful Aim. Using Arcane Shot as the focus dump of choice for 80-0% makes MM less clunky, more enjoyable (as enjoyable as spamming an instant shot can be) and easier to pick up since you won't need to keep all the conditions in your mind. You shouldn't have to ask yourself something like, "Is my Aimed Shot under 1.4 seconds? I should start using that instead of Arcane Shot then."

    First, I'm going to go over the priority list and action list used in simcraft to determine the difference.

    Code:
    actions=virmens_bite_potion,if=buff.bloodlust.react|target.time_to_die<=60
    actions+=/use_item,slot=waist
    actions+=/use_item,slot=hands
    actions+=/auto_shot
    actions+=/explosive_trap,if=active_enemies>1
    actions+=/powershot,if=enabled
    actions+=/lynx_rush,if=enabled&!dot.lynx_rush.ticking
    actions+=/multi_shot,if=active_enemies>5
    actions+=/steady_shot,if=active_enemies>5
    actions+=/fervor,if=enabled&focus<=50
    actions+=/rapid_fire,if=!buff.rapid_fire.up
    actions+=/stampede,if=buff.rapid_fire.up|buff.bloodlust.react|target.time_to_die<=25
    actions+=/a_murder_of_crows,if=enabled&!ticking
    actions+=/dire_beast,if=enabled
    actions+=/run_action_list,name=careful_aim,if=target.health.pct>80
    actions+=/glaive_toss,if=enabled
    actions+=/barrage,if=enabled
    actions+=/steady_shot,if=buff.pre_steady_focus.up&buff.steady_focus.remains<=5
    actions+=/serpent_sting,if=!ticking
    actions+=/chimera_shot
    actions+=/readiness
    actions+=/steady_shot,if=buff.steady_focus.remains<(action.steady_shot.cast_time+1)&!in_flight
    actions+=/kill_shot
    actions+=/aimed_shot,if=buff.master_marksman_fire.react
    actions+=/arcane_shot,if=buff.thrill_of_the_hunt.react
    #actions+=/aimed_shot,if=buff.rapid_fire.up|buff.bloodlust.react
    actions+=/arcane_shot,if=focus>=60|(focus>=43&(cooldown.chimera_shot.remains>=action.steady_shot.cast_time))&
    actions+=/steady_shot
    
    actions.careful_aim=serpent_sting,if=!ticking
    actions.careful_aim+=/chimera_shot
    actions.careful_aim+=/readiness
    actions.careful_aim+=/steady_shot,if=buff.pre_steady_focus.up&buff.steady_focus.remains<6
    actions.careful_aim+=/aimed_shot
    actions.careful_aim+=/steady_shot
    The most important thing in this is "#actions+=/aimed_shot,if=buff.rapid_fire.up|buff.bloodlust.react" which removes the action from the list and "actions+=/arcane_shot,if=focus>=60|(focus>=43&(cooldown.chimera_shot.remains>=action.steady_shot.cas t_time))&(!buff.rapid_fire.up&!buff.bloodlust.react)" by removing "&(!buff.rapid_fire.up&!buff.bloodlust.react)" to allow Arcane Shot to be cast while under the haste effects (Thanks Don Vit Corleone)The line removed ensures you only hardcast Aimed Shot during haste effects (Rapid Fire and Bloodlust) and you will cast Arcane Shot during haste effects.

    The important part is this is actually a gain of ~50 dps.

    Google Docs of data

    Looking at Fervor first, you can see Aimed Shot during haste effects is 226203 dps and Arcane Shot during haste is 226248 dps, a gain of 45 dps.

    Dire Beast is a similar story; Aimed Shot during haste is 228764 dps while Arcane Shot during haste is 228891 dps, a gain of 127 dps.

    As we all know, haste effects increase the amount of Autoshots done but Aimed Shot prevents this benefit since it stops the Autoshot. With Arcane Shot dumping, you allow Autoshots to continue while having a 1 second GCD ability go off. A reason I've not been a fan of hardcasting Aimed Shot is because it basically reduces the effectiveness of your mastery by 50% since you lose the chance to proc Wild Quiver from Autoshots.

    Looking at the charts on the Dire Beast sheet shows a gain of ~11 Autoshots, 15 Arcane Shots, 5 Steady Shots, and 5 Wild Quiver procs at the cost of ~8 Aimed Shots.


    The entire premise of this is that it is a small change to make since there are so few moments where this even applies. For example, this doesn't matter for the start of a fight since you start in Careful Aim so you will do Aimed Shot regardless. A better example would be the start of Phase 2 on Heroic Lei Shen; my current timing allows me to pop Rapid Fire as soon as the boss is active but he's at 65%, meaning I will use Arcane Shot as my dump instead of Aimed Shot.

    tl:dr: Only hardcast Aimed Shot when the target is above 80% health.
    Last edited by Flidro; 2013-06-19 at 04:15 PM. Reason: Fixed a fatal flaw to be more accurate.

  2. #2
    if you look at the rule below the one you commented out, it says not to use AS during haste buffs; remove everything from that line starting at "&(!" and sim again.
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

  3. #3
    Blademaster Flidro's Avatar
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    Lame, lemme check that real quick.

    Edit: okay, so the entire first post is innacurate. I'll edit it to make it better. Looks like Arcane Shot is ahead by a small amount (40 dps).'
    Gotta re-sim everything and make a new google docs.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-19 at 11:16 AM ----------

    Fixed everything.
    Last edited by Flidro; 2013-06-19 at 03:16 PM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Flidro View Post
    These days, it's recommended to hardcast Aimed Shot during haste effects like Bloodlust and Rapid Fire but I feel this isn't necessarily true anymore.
    It was true from 5.1 until last week. But since they buffed AS and not AiS were back to where we were at the beginning of the expansion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flidro View Post
    Using Arcane Shot as the focus dump of choice for 80-0% makes MM less clunky, more enjoyable (as enjoyable as spamming an instant shot can be) and easier to pick up since you won't need to keep all the conditions in your mind. You shouldn't have to ask yourself something like, "Is my Aimed Shot under 1.4 seconds? I should start using that instead of Arcane Shot then."
    It makes MM boring and just like the other specs except you other shot is call chimera instead of explosive or kill command and you get instant aimed procs instead of lock and load. To fix the last problem of "too much thinking when considering which shot to use," arcane shot should be removed from the MM tree and aimed would take over as focus dump. This would also force Blizzard to consider MM when they make class changes and tier bonuses which they seem to gloss over right now.

    I really like playing MM hardcasting aimed shot. It feels smooth alternating steady shot with aimed shot with a few double steady shots and a chimera every once in a while. Its much better than SS-SS-mash AS button over and over until you need focus or for CS every 9 sec and repeat. Aimed shot also hits hard and you see large numbers which you dont see with the other specs, its just a steady stream of puny numbers. And now that you can cast it while moving its easy.

  5. #5
    Blademaster Flidro's Avatar
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    While I agree, I think the current iteration of AiS is flawed since it stops Autoshot, reducing the effectiveness of Mastery.

    Using only Aimed Shot as a dump, the stat weights look like this:
    Haste: 2.98
    Crit: 2.73
    Mastery: 1.44

    Arcane Shot dump will look like this:
    Haste: 2.49
    Crit: 2.70
    Mastery: 1.72

    I feel the mastery would need to be reworked if you want Arcane Shot removed to make mastery somewhat useful. There is a difference of ~50 Wild Quiver procs between Arcane Shot and Aimed Shot dumping.

    I used the normal action list for Arcane Shot dumping so it will still Aimed Shot during haste effects. For the Aimed Shot dump sim, I removed Arcane Shot from the action list and removed the haste conditions on the Aimed Shot action list.

  6. #6
    I think aimed shot needs to stop auto shot. If it didn't, you wouldn't be able to set up AI out of a CC because as soon as you start casting your auto shot would start firing and break your trap or whatever. It's a subtle effect that doesn't benefit raiding at all, but it's what makes aimed shot an aimed shot instead of just another casted spell. This gives aimed shot great synergy with careful aim in pvp and soloing as well.

    I'm all for changing marks mastery though. It never made sense. How is the spec that's supposed to be about big numbers with AI and chimera going to get a mastery that procs something weaker than your auto shot? You could even make marks mastery the opposite of survival's: mastery increases your physical damage by X%. Boom. Add that to a 10% aimed shot buff (to match the earlier hotfix to arcane) and marks is completely fixed.

  7. #7
    Make Mastery affect Piercing Shots damage scaling.

  8. #8
    Legendary! Chickat's Avatar
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    Tbh, i wish aimed shot replaced arcane shot for mm and had like a 1.5sec base cast time, and still allowed auto shot.
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  9. #9
    Blademaster Flidro's Avatar
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    A large problem with Piercing Shots is there is a type of Dot-munching going on right now.

    I'm going to throw arbitrary numbers out, but I can crit an AiS and have a 50k bleed going and then crit Steady Shot and it will reduce the bleed to 15k.

    Granted, the entire bleed damage has probably been balanced around this munching. I wouldn't mind mastery scaling the bleed damage up right now but a large problem will be Aimed Shot will ONLY be hardcast during Careful Aim next patch. So you'll only be getting the huge bleeds from your Instant Aimed Shot procs IF it crits. It's a good thing Steady Shot still provides the bleeds...

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Flidro View Post
    A large problem with Piercing Shots is there is a type of Dot-munching going on right now.

    I'm going to throw arbitrary numbers out, but I can crit an AiS and have a 50k bleed going and then crit Steady Shot and it will reduce the bleed to 15k.

    Granted, the entire bleed damage has probably been balanced around this munching. I wouldn't mind mastery scaling the bleed damage up right now but a large problem will be Aimed Shot will ONLY be hardcast during Careful Aim next patch. So you'll only be getting the huge bleeds from your Instant Aimed Shot procs IF it crits. It's a good thing Steady Shot still provides the bleeds...
    What do you mean by "munching"?

    The way it should be working is when Piercing Shot is procced it applies 30% of the damage as an 8 second bleed. If the bleed is already going it pools the remaining damage with the new damage and redistributes the damage over another 8 seconds. The damage is still being applied but it's redistributed over the renewed bleed.

    They need to make Aimed Shot stronger than Arcane Shot, increase its damage, reduce its cast, reduce it's focus cost, or or an combination of all three. Then remove Wild Quiver and set mastery to increase the percentage of the Piercing Shot proc.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Flidro View Post
    I feel the mastery would need to be reworked if you want Arcane Shot removed to make mastery somewhat useful. There is a difference of ~50 Wild Quiver procs between Arcane Shot and Aimed Shot dumping.
    Mastery is a crappy stat for MM anyway. I would rather it was even less important since I try to get as little as possible. Wild quiver is not appealing at all to me even more so since it speeds up the durability loss on our weapons.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-22 at 12:12 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    What do you mean by "munching"?

    The way it should be working is when Piercing Shot is procced it applies 30% of the damage as an 8 second bleed. If the bleed is already going it pools the remaining damage with the new damage and redistributes the damage over another 8 seconds. The damage is still being applied but it's redistributed over the renewed bleed.

    They need to make Aimed Shot stronger than Arcane Shot, increase its damage, reduce its cast, reduce it's focus cost, or or an combination of all three. Then remove Wild Quiver and set mastery to increase the percentage of the Piercing Shot proc.
    Yeah piercing shots should work the same way as Ignite or Explosive Shot Dot and add in the new damage. Making MM mastery affect careful aim(longer duration or more crit) or piercing shots would be much better than Wild Quiver.

  12. #12
    Blademaster Flidro's Avatar
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    Piercing Shots would be in a better place if it acted just like Ignite and would actually allow the idea for mastery affecting the damage to have some merit. If this change were to go through, I'd want more incentive to use Aimed Shot than currently available.

  13. #13
    interesting i havent played marks in a long long time

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