The two faces of the horde.

[Jaxi]

It's not that Garrosh is a bad warchief, it's that he's a bad CHARACTER. Badly and hastily written, his traits and feelings changed constantly, and shoved down our throats, Garrosh is a very poorly implemented character.

I'd argue the opposite.

In my opinion the evolution of Garrosh as a character only solidifies his choice as the RIGHT chieftain in my opinion. The level of conflict between the Horde and Alliance is very enticing for people wanting to just enjoy the game, and not this fabricated political universe.

I don't want the Horde and the Alliance to be at peace, I want them to unleash upon each other the full fury of hell.

Bring the heat.

Edit: But maybe that's just because I'm an old school Warcraft player.

[remember2]

Horde: Rawr. Demon blood. Must kill Alliance.
(Orcs are "freed".)
Horde: Hey, Alliance. I realize we came through the dark portal into your lands and wanted to completely decimate you, but we're clean now. So. Like. Can we just stay here? I mean, our home is really in Outlands, but we kinda fucked that up, so we'd rather stay here. :3
Alliance: No.
Horde: Man, you guys are so unfair. Now we gonna have to fight for honor and shit by trying to take even more land that doesn't belong to us.
(Varian comes back)
Varian: Man, wtf is going on.

So, my question is...how was the Horde ever planning on fighting for their "freedom" and "honor" when they're in a place they don't even belong in to begin with?

[GennGreymane]

i want to piss off every horde player here with a truth they ignore.... let me rephrase..... this is true.... dont ignore it

at the core of the hordes leadership
thrall was a dictator..... in all basic terms we see a dictator as. he was one (dosnt mean he was evil)


only diff is

garrosh is not hiding it, hes like vegeta

[Negrido]

In my opinion the evolution of Garrosh as a character

I have yet to see this guy naturally evolve. Its just him changing and me being told that there are reasons that he is different.

[Sarog]

Horde: Rawr. Demon blood. Must kill Alliance.
(Orcs are "freed".)
Horde: Hey, Alliance. I realize we came through the dark portal into your lands and wanted to completely decimate you, but we're clean now. So. Like. Can we just stay here? I mean, our home is really in Outlands, but we kinda fucked that up, so we'd rather stay here. :3
Alliance: No.
Horde: Man, you guys are so unfair. Now we gonna have to fight for honor and shit by trying to take even more land that doesn't belong to us.
(Varian comes back)
Varian: Man, wtf is going on.

So, my question is...how was the Horde ever planning on fighting for their "freedom" and "honor" when they'r ein a place they don't even belong in the first place?

Nevermind that trolls, tauren, goblins, blood elves and forsaken are Azerothian natives, and humans, gnomes and dwarves only exist on Azeroth because of alien interference (heck, night elves as well, but that counts for blood elves too).

[Supercrunchy]

It's like if you said that Danish should rob coastal villages on drakkars, sing songs and swing axes.

the danish would be cooler if they stil did this

[Calon]

Every time these topics roll around, I get the feeling people want World of Warcraft to become World of Diplomatic Talks, Peace Agreements, and Hugs. Well, guess what, years upon years of blood lust, grudges, and strife mean war. War.

Garrosh despises the Alliance, wanting to let their blood flow through Orgimmar.He wants the ground to be stained red for a hundred years to come.
Varian will use his command over the Alliance to bring an end to the savage Horde. His hatred is not unexpected, and very much so logical due to what he underwent.

Thrall, on the other hand, was a weak and worthless leader. Seeking an alliance when clearly being besieged by the very people he wants to side with. Peace can not exist, when blood is sought. That is simple logic. This is World of Warcraft, and, the hint is in the name.

[Jaxi]

I have yet to see this guy naturally evolve. Its just him changing and me being told that there are reasons that he is different.

How so?

[deathmetalzf]

Every time these topics roll around, I get the feeling people want World of Warcraft to become World of Diplomatic Talks, Peace Agreements, and Hugs. Well, guess what, years upon years of blood lust, grudges, and strife mean war. War.

Garrosh despises the Alliance, wanting to let their blood flow through Orgimmar.He wants the ground to be stained red for a hundred years to come.
Varian will use his command over the Alliance to bring an end to the savage Horde. His hatred is not unexpected, and very much so logical due to what he underwent.

Thrall, on the other hand, was a weak and worthless leader. Seeking an alliance when clearly being besieged by the very people he wants to side with. Peace can not exist, when blood is sought. That is simple logic. This is World of Warcraft, and, the hint is in the name.

Agreed. This time both sides get down and dirty and end this cold war we've had for a while.

[GennGreymane]

How so?

shes kinda right


garrosh is supposed to be learning from saurfang
it happens unnaturally and will likly happen in the shattering or somthing

as of now its artifical because we dont know why

[Nielah]

It's a shame that Thrall's hard work and effort is going to be completely undone by the Garrosh ( head ) of the Horde.

Good for pvp and conflicts though, bad for those claiming the Horde are on a path to redemption.

Sure, it's a shame to see Thralls middle negotiations go to waste.
But it'll make the meaning of 'Red is dead' oh so much more worth it!

[remember2]

Nevermind that trolls, tauren, goblins, blood elves and forsaken are Azerothian natives, and humans, gnomes and dwarves only exist on Azeroth because of alien interference (heck, night elves as well, but that counts for blood elves too).

Once the orcs were doing with their demon blood business, they struck up alliances with the tauren, undead, blood elves, trolls, etc. Answer me this - what wars would have been fought if the orcs had not struck alliances with these races, but instead had made their way back to Outland?

[Sarog]

Once the orcs were doing with their demon blood business, they struck up alliances with the tauren, undead, blood elves, trolls, etc. Answer me this - what wars would have been fought if the orcs had not struck alliances with these races, but instead had made their way back to Outland?

The same (tauren vs. centaur, trolls vs. everyone, night elves vs. everyone, everyone vs. forsaken, humans vs. whoever is politically convenient, scourge, burning legion, black dragon, old gods, and all villains ever vs. everyone) wars that have been going on irrespective of the orcs.

[RyanEX]

Nevermind that trolls, tauren, goblins, blood elves and forsaken are Azerothian natives, and humans, gnomes and dwarves only exist on Azeroth because of alien interference (heck, night elves as well, but that counts for blood elves too).

Er, Humans/High Elves = Forsaken. Night Elves = High Elves/Blood Elves.

If you bothered to look it up, the Titans CREATED the landmass that eventually became Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms. So unless the trolls evolved from some sea water, the titans created all life on Azeroth with the exception of the Orcs (dirty aliens :P)

[Deleted]

Troll all da way, mon!

[Deleted]

If you bothered to look it up, the Titans CREATED the landmass that eventually became Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms. So unless the trolls evolved from some sea water, the titans created all life on Azeroth with the exception of the Orcs (dirty aliens :P)

Not true. The Elemental Lords controled Azeroth even before the Titans appeared.

[Deleted]

Er, Humans/High Elves = Forsaken. Night Elves = High Elves/Blood Elves.

If you bothered to look it up, the Titans CREATED the landmass that eventually became Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms. So unless the trolls evolved from some sea water, the titans created all life on Azeroth with the exception of the Orcs (dirty aliens :P)

Just one error btw, Night Elves didn't became Blood elves, some Night Elves became naga, and some High Elves became obsessed with magic and becamed the Blood Elves.

TL: DR version: High Elf -> Blood Elf

[Sarog]

If you bothered to look it up, the Titans CREATED the landmass that eventually became Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms. So unless the trolls evolved from some sea water, the titans created all life on Azeroth with the exception of the Orcs (dirty aliens :P)

Source? As far as I'm aware, the lore that states that the tauren and trolls were on Azeroth before the titans arrived hasn't been directly retcon'd yet.

[jitzul]

Every time these topics roll around, I get the feeling people want World of Warcraft to become World of Diplomatic Talks, Peace Agreements, and Hugs. Well, guess what, years upon years of blood lust, grudges, and strife mean war. War.

Garrosh despises the Alliance, wanting to let their blood flow through Orgimmar.He wants the ground to be stained red for a hundred years to come.
Varian will use his command over the Alliance to bring an end to the savage Horde. His hatred is not unexpected, and very much so logical due to what he underwent.

Thrall, on the other hand, was a weak and worthless leader. Seeking an alliance when clearly being besieged by the very people he wants to side with. Peace can not exist, when blood is sought. That is simple logic. This is World of Warcraft, and, the hint is in the name.

some rlly likes pvp

[orcshaman24]

Ogrim Doomhammer vs Garrosh Hellscream?
1. They both led their people on a war of conquest to defeat the Azeroth Races.
2. Both have Honor, and feel killing innocents is wrong.
3. Both had a rivalry with the Lion of Stormwind.

let me just say that Ogrim was not for the humans aswell, infact Thrall of the 4 warchiefs is the only that sought peace. He is in his father's vision of a good ruler more then any other orc.

Wrong, and showing how badly blizzard fail at there recent story editing. Garrosh said quite clearly in warsong hold that killing draenei children was fine since they would raise arms against them later, now people believe he didn't say that. That retcon is more fail then Illidans belief he beat Arthas.

---------- Post added 2010-09-01 at 02:16 AM ----------

Every time these topics roll around, I get the feeling people want World of Warcraft to become World of Diplomatic Talks, Peace Agreements, and Hugs. Well, guess what, years upon years of blood lust, grudges, and strife mean war. War.

Garrosh despises the Alliance, wanting to let their blood flow through Orgimmar.He wants the ground to be stained red for a hundred years to come.
Varian will use his command over the Alliance to bring an end to the savage Horde. His hatred is not unexpected, and very much so logical due to what he underwent.

Thrall, on the other hand, was a weak and worthless leader. Seeking an alliance when clearly being besieged by the very people he wants to side with. Peace can not exist, when blood is sought. That is simple logic. This is World of Warcraft, and, the hint is in the name.

Fail troll so fail on so many levels.

A single minded person who can't think outside the box giving a statement to what he thinks makes a developed story like wow. The WAR in Warcraft comes on many different levels, its not just about the horde and alliance if you actully looked further then your nose. The war against the scourge, the war against the legion, the war of the shifting sands, but to name a few.

And btw mr Garrosh butt kisser, Thrall made the horde what it is today, the horde you play would not be what it is if he wasn't leader. Its you who fails to even take note of this, and if the new horde had a leader like Garrosh from the start it would have failed, just like every other time it failed.

Guess what, Grom failed, as did Doomhammer, and Ner'zul, they failed to lead the horde right and it took Thrall to actully lead it right and become strong again. GET. YOUR. FACTS. STRAIGHT.