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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Elothie View Post
    Cooldown starts to count just after shadowfiend and still counts when you cast mindflay take that in mind,shadowfiend will be near 90% uptime in raids.
    YAY. Another reason for not taking Dispersion in PvE.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmorgrim View Post
    I'm also amused by the fact that so many people think that if you can reach a talent, you should be able to max it out. (inner fire) If we were meant to max out every talent we could reach, we would just have all talents be 1 point.

    It's just awkward, is all. Talent specs tend to "feel" better when you can intuitively max all the talents you want for what part of the game you're interested in. If there are talents left unfilled then the build feels unfinished and weird.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Elothie View Post
    Cooldown starts to count just after shadowfiend and still counts when you cast mindflay take that in mind,shadowfiend will be near 90% uptime in raids.
    That's...not possible. If you check my last post you can see why it will be closer to one per minuite than active 90% of the time. In fact, it is completely and utterly impossible to get Shadowfiend off cooldown by the time the duration finished unless you happen to have a 100% crit chance and only spam Mind Flay. If every single Mind Flay tick crits, then it would still take 12 seconds without haste to get it off cooldown again.

    Quote Originally Posted by masteryuri View Post
    YAY. Another reason for not taking Dispersion in PvE.
    You can skip it if you like, but I quite like my immunity to death button.
    Last edited by Abandon; 2010-08-31 at 04:21 PM.
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Abandon View Post
    You can skip it if you like, but I quite like my immunity to death button on a 1 and a bit minute cooldown.
    If you want to skip your 31 point talent for "better" options, then there is a problem with it.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaesebrezen View Post
    If you want to skip your 31 point talent for "better" options, then there is a problem with it.
    There is indeed a problem with a mana cd as a 31 point talent in a DPS tree.

  6. #26
    Cookie Monster Radux's Avatar
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    It's not just a 'mana cd' -- it's also a 'you don't die cd'

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Abandon View Post



    You can skip it if you like, but I quite like my immunity to death button.
    Immunity to death? Dispersion?
    You disperse into pure Shadow energy, reducing all damage taken by 90%.
    90% ≠ immunity to death
    100% = immunity to death

  8. #28
    The Lightbringer
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    Thought you couldn't skip the 31 point talents? And dispersion is the most awesome utility you can get. Utility is what is needed in cataclysm.
    And with the stats most shadow priests have atm in a 25man raid environment, they should be able to keep up a 95% uptime on sfiend with a 4min cooldown (45-45% crit, 1.5-1.8 sec cast time without heroism and focus magic). However in cataclysm, the amount of haste and crit will hopefully be lowered a lot (at least in the few first tiers).

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by iLive View Post
    I am dissapointed with the amount of changes. I don't mind any of the changes, but there should be more changes to Holy and Discipline. Discipline because of Improved Inner Fire and because there should be more fun utility and Holy because it's a very bad talent tree (don't force players to tale abilities they hate). Priests needs more love. ;(
    This isn't the actual build. I've got a feeling the real one will have a SHIT TON of new changes seeing as they'll have to finally start balancing around the level cap now so that means end game pvp and raids.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
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  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Funkthepunk View Post
    Thought you couldn't skip the 31 point talents? And dispersion is the most awesome utility you can get. Utility is what is needed in cataclysm.
    And with the stats most shadow priests have atm in a 25man raid environment, they should be able to keep up a 95% uptime on sfiend with a 4min cooldown (45-45% crit, 1.5-1.8 sec cast time without heroism and focus magic). However in cataclysm, the amount of haste and crit will hopefully be lowered a lot (at least in the few first tiers).
    You can skip any talents you want. You have to spend 31 points in your main tree, you don't need to take any specific talent.

    ---------- Post added 2010-08-31 at 04:38 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    This isn't the actual build. I've got a feeling the real one will have a SHIT TON of new changes seeing as they'll have to finally start balancing around the level cap now so that means end game pvp and raids.
    Exactly my thought.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Funkthepunk View Post
    Thought you couldn't skip the 31 point talents? And dispersion is the most awesome utility you can get. Utility is what is needed in cataclysm.
    Yeah right... I still can use my 2nd hand for other things while counting the encounters i needed the damage reduction utility of dispersion...

    It's not just a 'mana cd' -- it's also a 'you don't die cd'
    It's not a mana cd. It's only a you don't die cd. New fiend CD, Archangel and Replenishment are more than enough mana reg. You will never need Dispersion for it.

    Dispersion is way too situational to be a "wanted" talent. It's still good spell, it's a bad 31 point talent.

  12. #32
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by masteryuri View Post
    You can skip any talents you want. You have to spend 31 points in your main tree, you don't need to take any specific talent.
    Okay, thanks for enlightening me.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by masteryuri View Post
    Immunity to death? Dispersion?
    You disperse into pure Shadow energy, reducing all damage taken by 90%.
    90% ≠ immunity to death
    100% = immunity to death
    I will be sure to flag when I am exaggerating slightly with gigantic letters from now on so you don't miss it. But I have never died in a raid while Dispersed, even when I am the only person left alive and a raid boss is hitting me. "Almost complete immunity" is more accurate, if you want it spelled out.
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  14. #34
    The Patient Thrayne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annesh View Post
    Shadowpriests 100% uptime on shadowfiend wtf ??? no way it's going live as 20 seconds; 10 might be more reasonable, but even then it's pretty insane.

    even at 10 yard radius sin and punishment is bad... just less bad

    masochism AWESOME, infinite mana in pvp when under fire. imagine in a bg, running oom, disperse off CD, mount into a bunch of enemies and happily disperse away, coming into safety at FULL mana because the noobs thought they could kill you and just ended up feeding you a million billion mana instead, LOL!

    imp inner fire still needs to be 2 points, or moved to tier 1

    apparitions still retarded

    still need better dispel protection

    still need to clean up the tree a little, it's still kinda scattershot and awkward/unintuitive

    also, why is imp psychic scream still tied to silence? better question: why does imp psychic scream STILL EXIST

    other than that, i dig it
    Really? Sin and Punishment not enough? I'm more than happy with a 20 yard diameter 3 sec horror on dispel. There is not cc reduction talents so they sit there for the full 3 seconds, in the time you can redot, or switch over to MS/MS combo to burst while the healer is horrored.

    Much better than now, than the week 5-7k crit when dispelled (usually not on the burn target)

    If it is dispelled in BGs it will be godly, if it doesn't it doesn't matter, you are tab dotting guys with your strongest DoT.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Annesh View Post
    even at 10 yard radius sin and punishment is bad... just less bad
    A free 10-yard radius Horror is bad? What are you smoking?

    Quote Originally Posted by Annesh View Post
    masochism AWESOME, infinite mana in pvp when under fire. imagine in a bg, running oom, disperse off CD, mount into a bunch of enemies and happily disperse away, coming into safety at FULL mana because the noobs thought they could kill you and just ended up feeding you a million billion mana instead, LOL!
    Uhh...no. Read the tooltip. You get mana back based on taking a single hit equal to 10% of your HP. You won't be taking more than 3-4% of your HP per hit while Dispersed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Annesh View Post
    better question: why does imp psychic scream STILL EXIST
    Because lowering the cooldown of a great CC is good?
    Quote Originally Posted by Precursor View Post
    "Fall of therzane....." ....um what? if that woman fell , god help us it will be the second cataclysm
    Words that lots of people don't seem to know the definition of:
    "Troll", "Rehash", "Casual", "Dead", "Dying", "Exploit".

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Vook View Post


    Because lowering the cooldown of a great CC is good?
    great cc? psychic scream A G-R-E-A-T CC? are we playing the same game???

    ---------- Post added 2010-08-31 at 05:52 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrayne View Post
    10 yard diameter 3 sec horror on dispel.
    Fix'd for ya. Also after 3 dispel, S&P becames useless.

    ---------- Post added 2010-08-31 at 05:58 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Abandon View Post
    I will be sure to flag when I am exaggerating slightly with gigantic letters from now on so you don't miss it. But I have never died in a raid while Dispersed, even when I am the only person left alive and a raid boss is hitting me. "Almost complete immunity" is more accurate, if you want it spelled out.
    It's still horrible as 31 point talent. Ask how paladins would feel if their Retribution's 31 point talent was Divine Shield.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaesebrezen View Post
    Yeah right... I still can use my 2nd hand for other things while counting the encounters i needed the damage reduction utility of dispersion...
    You don't "need" it on any encounters, but it sure is useful on a lot of them. It can be helpful on Marrowgar if you get some bad RNG on healer spikes during bonestorm or on you. It's helpful in surviving on LDW in a number of circumstances with RNG on MCs, missed interupts, etc. It's helpful on Saurfang if the healers are getting overwhelmed with marks late in the fight to avoid healing him or to avoid getting one-shot by a beast. It's actually a DPS increase on Festergut because you can ignore the spores (unless you happen to get one) and can DPS without moving by just Dispersing through Pungent Blight. It's helpful on Putricide so you can eat a slime by yourself without stacking or if you need to hold Unbound Plague a few seconds longer than you'd like. It's awesome for a number of things on Blood Princes, like the Flame Orb, moving with high Shadow Prison stacks, etc. It's great for the air phases on BQL. It's a DPS increase on Sindragosa because you can stack your Unchained Magic as high as you like and just disperse through the damage; it can also save your life if you mess up Blistering Cold or LOS on air phase or Phase 3. And, of course, there's tons of uses on Lich King, like saving yourself if an Infest doesn't get healed right away, for eating some Vile Spirits, or Frostmourne in P3.

    In short, I can find a good use for it in just about every ICC encounter. It may be a bit different in Cataclysm, but let us not also forget that healer mana will be at a premium too, so chances are that you can help to save healer mana with creative use of it. And, really, I can possibly understand saying it sucks if it's a trade off with a DPS talent, but it's not.

  18. #38
    The Patient Thrayne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by masteryuri View Post
    Fix'd for ya. Also after 3 dispel, S&P becames useless.
    Basic math, the tool tip says 10yards withint the enemy. 10 yards on each side is 20 yards diameter. Geometry is hard.

    Also, only 3 S&P till immune? I'm fine with that, 9 secs of doing nothing (and all buddies in a circle with a 20 yard diameter, 10 yard radius) something should be dead, or in bad shape.

    Learn elementary reading and math skills before "fix'n" me.



    Psychic scream is a great CC pvp wise in the fact that it is a multi target fear that runs them away from you (usually). After the trinketed fear you can fear them for 10 seconds (no CC's are reduced now) but in that time they are can be 20 yards away now, so effectively keeping melee off you for 110+ seconds (and can be applied to more than one person at the same time)
    Last edited by Thrayne; 2010-08-31 at 06:08 PM. Reason: Quote formatting

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by masteryuri View Post
    great cc? psychic scream A G-R-E-A-T CC? are we playing the same game???
    Instant-cast, short-cooldown, multi-target fear. What's not to like about it? "Oh QQ I can't spam it like Polymorph or Fear" ?
    Quote Originally Posted by Precursor View Post
    "Fall of therzane....." ....um what? if that woman fell , god help us it will be the second cataclysm
    Words that lots of people don't seem to know the definition of:
    "Troll", "Rehash", "Casual", "Dead", "Dying", "Exploit".

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by masteryuri View Post

    It's still horrible as 31 point talent. Ask how paladins would feel if their Retribution's 31 point talent was Divine Shield.
    I've removed the first part as that has already been proved wrong by Thrayne, but perhaps you should ask that Paladin how he feels about having to spend a talent point to get an Interrupt when other melee classes get it for free.

    Not all classes are the same, you have the choice of picking up an ability which restores your mana and makes you almost completely immune to death while it's active, while also removing and making you immune to all snares and roots. If you don't want it, nobody is forcing you to take it.
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

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