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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeuq View Post
    In short, I can find a good use for it in just about every ICC encounter.
    There's a small difference between "I can find" and "I forced myself to find".
    How many of your scenarios are not very situational? Festergut and Sindragosa?

    If you don't want it, nobody is forcing you to take it.
    Problem found. You should want it, no matter what. Dispersion has always been in the "do i really want it?"-category.
    It is nice to have, but we just picked it because we had enough points for it.

    But we're going around in circles: Dispersion has always been a biased spell. Some people love it, some people hate it, some people think it's just not worth the 31-point talent.
    Last edited by Kaesebrezen; 2010-08-31 at 06:47 PM.

  2. #42
    I do want it, though. Let me ask, would it make any difference at all if it was our 21 point talent and Vampiric Touch was our 31 point talent?

    edit: Agreed, neither side are likely to convince the other of their point of view considering we have all had experience with the spell for the last year.
    Last edited by Abandon; 2010-08-31 at 06:52 PM.
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  3. #43
    Hmm, I don't quite get Masochism. I don't think it'll be pickupable for the healer specs. It'll simply be too easy to regen mana then - 8% of max mana isn't bad at all. It's quite an interesting way to get shadow to weave in an SWD now and then, but then shadow's mana needs to be quite tightly balanced or it'll either never happen or get used every cooldown.

    Also, I don't like the name.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Thrayne View Post
    9 secs of doing nothing
    3 sec 1st dispel + 2 sec 2nd dispel + 1 3rd dispel = 6 sec
    Math is hard.

  5. #45
    High Overlord Kiora's Avatar
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    The new changes to Shadow are nice, but I'm hoping they get rid of Improved Inner Fire and make the first tier of Discipline look more appealing for Shadow. Twin Disciplines is nice, but the other two points pretty much go nowhere for Shadow. And that just makes it harder for Shadow to pick up the fun talents like Horror and Silence in a min/maxed raid build.

  6. #46
    I like the disc changes. I think that they indicate that that tree is getting looked at and this build just came in at a random time during that process.

    I wonder what's going on with Inner Focus. I have a hard time believing that they'll really put it back as it was. It was only really interesting in previous expansions due to the 5-second rule. Without the 5SR they could pretty much just make Inner Focus say "Your Divine Hymn costs no mana and has a 25% increased chance to crit" instead of bringing it back as it was. I'm feeling hopeful for something that interacts with Inner Will/Inner Fire instead of that.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaesebrezen View Post
    There's a small difference between "I can find" and "I forced myself to find".
    How many of your scenarios are not very situational? Festergut and Sindragosa?
    ...And Blood Queen and Putricide and Saurfang. There's no reason not to disperse for at least one of the air phases (assuming you may decide to Divine Hymn for one); even if you do a good job spreading out, RNG can still kill you, and you're making the life of the healers harder. And Putricide, if you're not taking an active roll in helping to manage the Plague as a mobile ranged with such a powerful survival cooldown at your disposal, you're hurting your raid by making a less mobile player and/or someone with less survival do your job for you. Now Saurfang isn't as useful with the 30% buff, but since the fight isn't tuned for it, I still think it's a meaningful example. Ensuring you didn't die or even need much healing with a mark on Saurfang in the final seconds when all the healers were spamming like crazy, happens quite often and could easily have meant the difference between a kill and a wipe.

    And I don't see any difference at all. Sure, most of the other situations are less likely than some of the ones above, but I don't see how that makes them forced or, as I assume you mean, contrived situations. Yes, they're not all things that happen with a lot of regularity, but they're all things I've seen more than once. I've seen 2-3 of the healers get bonespiked on Marrowgar during bonestorm a handful of times, and players who weren't quick to do something to survive either died or were very close to dying.

    Finally, let's not forget the situations where you aren't playing perfectly, and are out of position or take some avoidable damage or whatever. That's the point, it's not going to be like shieldwall for a tank, where they know it's going to be useful during such and such an ability. It will still serve that purpose as a DPS role, but it instead allows you to have a greater margin for error on top of some of the aforementioned additional utility it offers.


    People have said much the same sort of thing about a talent like Body and Soul, where it sure is decently useful on a handful of encounters, but it's far from required for any of them. And yet, virtually all high end Holy Priests take that talent because the utility is worth it. Dispersion is much the same, in that it's not necessary for any fight, but it has some nifty utility in some and a bit more margin for error on others. And even if it did come as a trade-off for some small throughput talent, which it doesn't, then I imagine you'd still see the overwhelming majority of highend Shadow Priests take it.

    I think your mistake is in thinking that the 31-point talent has to be somehow the best single point in the tree toward that role, and I don't see why that needs to be the case. Would you feel better if it was lower in the tree and a more iconic talent was in the 31 point slot? Would you seriously argue for a build that doesn't take it? I'd be interested in seeing one that could justify not taking it. It really just sounds like you're a bit disappointed in it's placement in the tree, that it somehow isn't worthy of being a 31-point talent, but that is still far from making it a bad talent.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by masteryuri View Post
    3 sec 1st dispel + 2 sec 2nd dispel + 1 3rd dispel = 6 sec
    Math is hard.
    Ironic considering you couldn't understand the difference between Radius and Diameter on the last page. You could try being less agressive in your posts.

    Also, it's 3 seconds - 1.5 seconds - .75 seconds = 5.25 seconds
    Math IS hard.

    Yes, it is almost six seconds if they dispel it every time they can in PVP, and it takes 15 seconds before it is off Diminishing Returns, and we also have Silence and Psychic Scream to use while waiting for DR to reset. Considering it is a horrify and so doesn't break on damage, a healer basically stunning themselves and anyone around them for 5 seconds in a row which doesn't share Diminishing Returns with anything else apart from Death Coil and Psychic Horror seems quite handy.

    (to clarify before you point out it isn't a stun in size 90 font, I mean CCing themselves and everyone else which doesn't break on damage.)
    Last edited by Abandon; 2010-08-31 at 07:53 PM.
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Abandon View Post
    Ironic considering you couldn't understand the difference between Radius and Diameter on the last page. You could try being less agressive in your posts.



    Yes, it is six seconds if they dispel it every time they can in PVP, and it takes 15 seconds before it is off Diminishing Returns, and we also have Silence and Psychic Scream to use while waiting for DR to reset. Considering it is a horrify and so doesn't break on damage, a healer basically stunning themselves and anyone around them for 5 seconds in a row which doesn't share Diminishing Returns with anything else apart from Death Coil and Psychic Horror seems quite handy.

    (to clarify before you point out it isn't a stun in size 90 font, I mean CCing themselves and everyone else which doesn't break on damage.
    You are forgetting that while it is on DR we can't cast our major DPS talent. (you called this way in that thread last time).

    I call this a shitty dispel protection. It is more like a CC as you are calling it, but dispel protections haven't the purpose to CC someone but they are indeed a protection for our DoTs, a backlash that the dispeller has to take for dispelling it, a "i should think 10 more times when dispelling VT".
    Sadly it is not, if it fails after 3 dispels and you are talking about it as it was an active Horror ability.
    Last edited by masteryuri; 2010-08-31 at 08:01 PM.

  10. #50
    Keyboard Turner Ameliaswe's Avatar
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    Changes of biggest notice lately mainly circles around the new effect from Chaistance. (sorry for spelling)
    I am looking forward grandly to see it implented, I strongly doubt it will make Holy or Disc in line with other specs in aspect of CC/dmg output, but it will be a great tool along with Fear & Other dps spells/talents!

  11. #51
    Unstable Affliction also fails after 3 casts because Silence is on Diminishing returns, by the way.

    Also, PVP is more than 1v1. You and your melee friend are fighting a healer, their melee is trying to peel your melee off of their healer. The healer Dispels Vampiric touch, both CCing themselves and getting the Melee off of your friend. You re-cast it while they are running and throw up a couple of Mind Spikes.

    They won't always want to Dispel it, it will be a massive disadvantage to try in some situations, in others it will simply be frustrating.
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  12. #52
    Keyboard Turner Ameliaswe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ananan View Post
    I like the disc changes. I think that they indicate that that tree is getting looked at and this build just came in at a random time during that process.

    I wonder what's going on with Inner Focus. I have a hard time believing that they'll really put it back as it was. It was only really interesting in previous expansions due to the 5-second rule. Without the 5SR they could pretty much just make Inner Focus say "Your Divine Hymn costs no mana and has a 25% increased chance to crit" instead of bringing it back as it was. I'm feeling hopeful for something that interacts with Inner Will/Inner Fire instead of that.
    I do not agree with you, Sure in the current progress blizzard is taking Inner Focus is due to be a Disc spell only, therefor limited use for any dps spec. But I think that more than one priest will copy my line, as proved already. Disc Holy Dps offers some tools that might be worth experimenting with, also leading to this talent being used for mana save for dps aswell as a fortunate crit! In other ways it might be useful to use for more spells now that shadow spells will be more appealing to disc dps. (yes I know many noobs used shadow spells such as MB even in WOTLK, I petty those nobrainers)
    At the current (wotlk) terms, the only useable spell for dps increase output would be the dots, and even they are getting heavily buffed by being possitive to both haste and crit for all specs and not only shadow. So maybe you will end up using Inner Focus to make a Devouring Plague (high price, high dmg) to be for free and even more dmg from the potential crits!

    Think about it atleast.
    Last edited by Ameliaswe; 2010-08-31 at 08:06 PM. Reason: added quote to know to which post I answered

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Abandon View Post
    Unstable Affliction also fails after 3 casts because Silence is on Diminishing returns, by the way.
    No. Even if the silence fails, it still does damage.

    Also, PVP is more than 1v1. You and your melee friend are fighting a healer, their melee is trying to peel your melee off of their healer. The healer Dispels Vampiric touch, both CCing themselves and getting the Melee off of your friend. You re-cast it while they are running and throw up a couple of Mind Spikes.
    People aren't that stupid. The healer will run 10 yards away and dispel it.

    They won't always want to Dispel it, it will be a massive disadvantage to try in some situations, in others it will simply be frustrating.
    Problem found. UA's dispelling is a disadvantage 90% of the time. Taking damage and having no way to heal it is a probably death situation.

  14. #54
    Actually, no, a new build appeared out of nowhere and was never deployed on beta servers. I have absolutely no idea why, but, hey, it's still a beta build! (from the MMO champion News page) Why discuss what doesn't exist?

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Daffy101 View Post
    Actually, no, a new build appeared out of nowhere and was never deployed on beta servers. I have absolutely no idea why, but, hey, it's still a beta build! (from the MMO champion News page) Why discuss what doesn't exist?
    Agreed. It is even possible that this build will never see our beta client.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by masteryuri View Post
    No. Even if the silence fails, it still does damage.
    People aren't that stupid. The healer will run 10 yards away and dispel it.
    Running 10 yards away from the person who is trying to stop you getting ripped apart by the melee on you is an amazing idea, much better than just...not dispelling it.

    Problem found. UA's dispelling is a disadvantage 90% of the time. Taking damage and having no way to heal it is a probably death situation.
    Taking damage and having no way to heal it...like for example if they are Horrified and have Shadow Priest attacking them? The backlash damage isn't the main strength of Unstable Affliction, the Silence is, because it gives you time to re-apply it after being dispelled and prevents the healer from healing, just like this does. The backlash damage is just a bonus.

    Different classes are different, if you want Unstable Affliction so badly please just roll a Warlock and stop posting on the Priest forum.

    ---------- Post added 2010-08-31 at 09:22 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Daffy101 View Post
    Actually, no, a new build appeared out of nowhere and was never deployed on beta servers. I have absolutely no idea why, but, hey, it's still a beta build! (from the MMO champion News page) Why discuss what doesn't exist?
    On the Beta it currently says that it is downloading content while I am playing so I am guessing this will be released soon. Something's happening, anyhow, and I doubt they would put all of these changes in and not even test them by releasing them on the Beta servers.
    Last edited by Abandon; 2010-08-31 at 08:28 PM.
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  17. #57
    High Overlord Kiora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abandon View Post
    Unstable Affliction also fails after 3 casts because Silence is on Diminishing returns, by the way.

    Also, PVP is more than 1v1. You and your melee friend are fighting a healer, their melee is trying to peel your melee off of their healer. The healer Dispels Vampiric touch, both CCing themselves and getting the Melee off of your friend. You re-cast it while they are running and throw up a couple of Mind Spikes.

    They won't always want to Dispel it, it will be a massive disadvantage to try in some situations, in others it will simply be frustrating.
    One other thing to consider is that Shadow is getting some nice new burst options in this expansion that correct me if I'm wrong on this, options that Affliction still doesn't have. Unless you count maybe an Affliction Warlock that gets insanely lucky on Nightfall procs. During that 3 second horror you will be able to get off two Mind Spikes and an instant Mind Blast, which will put a decent hole in the person's health which in turn might make the following dispels not happen since they're trying to patch that hole up instead of cleanse spamming.

    But I'll still endorse that we get the damage on dispel back. And how come Mind Sear didn't get an AoE damage buff? Is it that far ahead of the other AoEs?

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Abandon View Post
    On the Beta it currently says that it is downloading content while I am playing so I am guessing this will be released soon.
    Done talking to you till next build. (also stop "roll a lock qq moar" or similar stuff if you wanna prove your point with me)
    That is a bug since the new client was available. Or perhaps you still didn't download the previous patch. (with the new client you can play while you are downloading new patches)
    Last edited by masteryuri; 2010-08-31 at 08:29 PM.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by masteryuri View Post
    Done talking to you till next build. (also stop "roll a lock qq moar" or similar stuff if you wanna prove your point with me)
    That is a bug since the new client was available. Or perhaps you still didn't download the previous patch. (with the new client you can play while you are downloading new patches)
    Why bother. Every time anyone have proved you wrong so far you have simply ignored it. The amount of strawmen arguments being thrown out are enough to make the Scarecrow from the Wizard of Oz worry about being drafted into offical service. I think it will be easier to just stop trying to reply to you in general, it makes no difference either way.

    The client allows you to download while playing, true, last night when I logged in there was nothing left available to download and it was fully green in the progress bar at the bottom of the launcher, and there was no "downloading" circle in the game client itself. Today when I logged in it had the red "Core Content is downloading" circle while playing the game, but the launcher still shows that there is nothing new to download, which is why I said it looks like it is downloading *something*. It could be a bug that it is displaying, but considering this patch was deployed but not released, it could be that.
    And while it has not been released yet, I doubt they would have made all of these changes for no reason.
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Abandon View Post
    Why bother. Every time anyone have proved you wrong so far you have simply ignored it. The amount of strawmen arguments being thrown out are enough to make the Scarecrow from the Wizard of Oz worry about being drafted into offical service. I think it will be easier to just stop trying to reply to you in general, it makes no difference either way.
    Sorry I tend to ignore people when I realize we will never find a point of agreement. Tell me if you feel the same way with me so I won't bother you further.
    ]The client allows you to download while playing, true, last night when I logged in there was nothing left available to download and it was fully green in the progress bar at the bottom of the launcher, and there was no "downloading" circle in the game client itself. Today when I logged in it had the red "Core Content is downloading" circle while playing the game, but the launcher still shows that there is nothing new to download, which is why I said it looks like it is downloading *something*. It could be a bug that it is displaying, but considering this patch was deployed but not released, it could be that.
    I know about that red circle. I have had it on my screen since new client came and the bar in the launcher was 100%. :S
    And while it has not been released yet, I doubt they would have made all of these changes for no reason.
    I didn't mean they will scrap all of these changes, I simply think they will add much more changes to this build before deploying it on the beta. This is only an assumption tho.

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