Demonology dps gets crazy with high haste

[Jessicka]

You guys seem to think WoL is the dps Bible of WoW. Many guilds use it, but certainly not all. Some also have private parses. We stopped scheduled raiding the moment we got our drakes and Halion hc10 horde first, so whatever raids we do now, as sporadic as they are, are not being logged.

There's also the issue of the top 10-20 frequently being duplicate logs, and often, if you go into the details you can actually see where the players have been doing things to actually play the meters to intentionally inflate their damage and are regular recipients of PIs/tricks etc, and thus aren't really very representative. Remember, it's a game, and WoL as a public forum is pretty open and easy to abuse.

[voidillusion]

WoL may not be 100% accurate, but its the best sample of data atm.

And this sample of data tbh is worth 100 times more than a guy saying "I broke the 20k mark in Saurfang with average gear" without backing it up with logs, data, whatever.

[Jessicka]

WoL may not be 100% accurate, but its the best sample of data atm.

And this sample of data tbh is worth 100 times more than a guy saying "I broke the 20k mark in Saurfang with average gear" without backing it up with logs, data, whatever.

If you need a sample to compare yourself to, the 50-150th are arguably where you want to be looking; not 'Hey look at this guy on the #1 spot!'

And if you look at that sample, it is certainly Affliction > Demonology > Destruction.

[nocturnus]

WoL may not be 100% accurate, but its the best sample of data atm.

And this sample of data tbh is worth 100 times more than a guy saying "I broke the 20k mark in Saurfang with average gear" without backing it up with logs, data, whatever.

The point I made wasn't to persuade you to believe I broke a personal dps record or not. I couldn't care less. My point was to make you understand the difference in all three specs playing optimally.

Aff has the upper hand at all times and if certain elements fall into place at the right time, your dps can skyrocket (even if you're not in complete BiS).

Demonology can come close. But this also depends on optimal cd usage and mc use. Consulting stat weight carefully is another important factor

Destro is the easiest spec to play decently (with poor dps output compared to other classes and specs) and the hardest spec to play well. Optimal re-application of immolate and other cd upon pyroclasm procs is imperative. (well played destro has decent potential output, but not nearly as good as aff)

Since you mention gear, it's pretty clear you don't have any in-depth knowledge of the class. Heroic BiS will not make a big difference compared to my mostly heroic items. You know this if you know how to calculate in our pretty slow scaling combined with the 30% buff.

[voidillusion]

Since you mention gear, it's pretty clear you don't have any in-depth knowledge of the class. Heroic BiS will not make a big difference compared to my mostly heroic items. You know this if you know how to calculate in our pretty slow scaling combined with the 30% buff.

Yes i do have that "in depth knowledge of the class", yes i know that with that crappy PoS Hc trinket + pre fight pots and wtv you can do corruption rolling on some fights etcetcetc.

This doesnt overwrite the fact that you're not excepcionally geared, good geared yeah, geared enough to pull those numbers? Seriously doubt it.

This however has nothing to do with the fact that Affliction->Demo->Destro in terms of own dps, but that isn't new for anyone i guess....

[Deleted]

On saurfang, which is considered a straight forward nuke fight, I managed to pass 20k dps (with the 30% buff). I haven't seen any demo or destro warlock dish out similar numbers. Our demo lock came pretty damn close though.

Good one. with that gear you'd be lucky to do 15k dps on saurfang
Lets see some logs big man, you have 1k haste, you will literally have 0 chance of getting near top 200 on saurfang

[nocturnus]

That's where you're wrong. Since the few upgrades available will result in a marginal increase in dps. A theoretical increase that doesn't mitigate stronger forces like RNG, external buffs etc... The fact that YOU can't reach those numbers might be an indication of your personal potential.

But like I said, you don't need to believe me, I really don't mind. Especially due to its insignificant nature. The point still is that aff has the highest dps output in every case possible and that destro is too tedious to play well without satisfacotry output.

Provoke, I was doing 14k in crappier gear quite a few buff patches back. I strongly suggest you change something about your playstyle if you can't manage to surpass the 15k mark on a nuke fight with the 30% buff. As you can see, you're gear itemlevel wise is quite a bit better than mine. You're in BiS, We quit raiding the 5th of Jul. (For the simple reason that the gear became worthless and the repetitive grind of icc became boring). Yet, the stat differences are meagre. Combine this to the poor scaling of warlocks in general and you can safely assume that skill will be bottle-neck when having a dps battle.

[Deleted]

I agree about the destro point, I have no clue why people still play that spec.
And I choose not to believe you, unless you can prove it, else its just false numbers.
hey man, i did 29k dps on sindragosa, but im not linking logs d;}
And when it comes to affliction, I really disagree about the few upgrades will be a minor increase to dps..
If you swapped NMIC with dfo, you'd see a huge dps increase. Hell, you'd get a dps increase if you gemmed your boots correctly

edit;

Provoke, I was doing 14k in crappier gear quite a few buff patches back. I strongly suggest you change something about your playstyle if can't manage surpassing the 15k mark on a nuke fight with the 30% buff.

I have to spec destro for saurfang, due to the strategy my guild uses, only done saurfang as affliction once.
I didn't once say I was having troubles getting to that dps in any post, I was having trouble believing you did in 'bad' gear.
I have no doubt I could get around the 20k margain, my gear would allow for that, just need some practice on the fight

[nocturnus]

If you had calculated the stat weights correctly, you could've deducted that there is no better way of gemming those boots. Since you seem to have missed the trinket calculation threads regurgitated over and over again, the crystal provides higher dps if you can manage to not let corruption drop off even once. Would I've had the dfo, I'd still keep the crystal for nuke fights. Unfortunately I raided more on Steevo (my gay dk tank) than on my main warlock. You gotta do what's best for the guild I guess...

For gemming, do yourself a favour and calculate how much you gain from spirit fully raid buffed. You'll probably stumble on the simple fact that any set bonus lower than 8-9 sp, is not worth gemming blue.

We don't use the shadowfury tac on saurfang, the adds die so fast it's barely needed to slow them... Once I managed a little over 20k dps - usually between 16k and 17k - believe it or not, I've got no reason to lie. I am sorry I am not able to provide logs. In every other post I made on these forum I always have. Like I said, we stopped scheduled raiding, so every now and then, when we do a run, it's a semi pug free for all. No one cares about food or flasks, let alone logs.

[Deleted]

5 spell power socket bonus with a blue socket isn't worth matching, but putting a spell power/spirit gem in a blue socket with 7 spell power bonus is 1 spell power more than putting a 23 spell power gem in (30% of spirit to spell power from fel armor and 20% from glyph of life tap), thats before kings which is a further 1 spell power. Unless i'm mistaken?

[voidillusion]

You are correct, and even with +5 you only get minus 0.5sp than the 23sp from runed cardinal in affliction if my math doesnt betrays me. Having Demonic Aegis (demo or destro) its better than the runed by 0.4sp.

This considering LT glyph always along with bok.

[nocturnus]

Let's have a look I might have miscalculated something or it was a decision based on a simcraft parse, even if I don't see myself trusting that for a 100%:
23+23= 46sp
23+12= 35sp + 10[spirit]*1.1[kings]=11*0.3[fa] = 38,3+7[socket bonus]=45,3 - I guess it's slightly less than 2x23sp gems. If you add up the glyph of LT the spirit gem's probably still better. If it is better, it's marginal. As a min-maxer 'marginal' is enough to make me regem, hehehe. This makes me wonder why I didn't just drop a blue gem in it. I probably didn't have it on me at the time and totally neglected to regem.

But yes, it's true, optimally (considering LT) there could have been a blue gem there. But it wouldn't be responsible for a dps boost - but I know you were being sarcastic about that

If you misunderstood my post I apologize. I didn't mean you a lesser player than I am. I wouldn't dare since I don't know you. But what I do know is that scaling allows for skill to be bottle-neck, not a BiS vs semi-BiS character - even if you outgear me, focus, RNG, external buffs and a bit of luck might determine who's on top. Had we been mages it would've been different since they scale much better with both gear as the icc buff. I'm pleased to hear you agree on destro's mechanics and relative difficulty. Many players have no idea how complicated that spec can get if you want to squeeze every last drop of dps out of it.

[Deleted]

yeah, I wish I was a mage, but gear and everything will mean nothing in 2 months, then we'll get to see who is OP in cataclysm.
If your conflag doesn't crit, your dps is screwed up as well, just cannot afford to miss a pyroclasm proc as destro >_>
then there is the gearing for destro, can easily get way too much haste, especially with backdraft procs.
for what its worth, its just far simpler to just spec affliction or demo to get higher numbers with less effort.

[gherkin]

yeah, I wish I was a mage

And thats where this thread ends, locked.