Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst
1
2
3
  1. #41
    High Overlord Etalia's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    160
    Ah yes I'd forgotten about the Specializations! I didn't realise that's what I was looking at, as on the Mages, Priests and Warlocks (i.e. cloth wearers), its not simply called "Cloth Specialization" like it is for the other armor classes; they've been given their own names. /personal facepalm

    So the hybrids also get 5% intellect, provided that they a) wear their own armor proficiency and b) it's their primary attribute. So how does that affect "base mana" for the class as a whole? :/

  2. #42
    High Overlord Vortrall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    In a city on the back of a roaming colossus
    Posts
    102
    The question is, why not just bake them directly into the cloth classes? Seems kind of pointless when they can't equip any higher levels of gear.

    Edit: Or is that what it's doing, they're just passives and don't have any gear requirements?
    Last edited by Vortrall; 2010-09-22 at 12:26 AM.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Vortrall View Post
    The question is, why not just bake them directly into the cloth classes? Seems kind of pointless when they can't equip any higher levels of gear.

    Edit: Or is that what it's doing, they're just passives and don't have any gear requirements?
    You are right on that it would make sense, but if they did that the number of people that would bitch about clothies being jipped would be insane

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Etalia View Post
    Dendrek, I just realised something when I logged onto a freshly copied 80 priest and looked at her spellbook: All Priests have a trainable ability called Mysticism which grants a passive 5% bonus to intellect. I didn't notice this on the 85 because she came with it readily trained, and it's listed on the General tab, below Mastery. I apologise if this skews your numbers at all, however know that it is available to ALL Priests, regardless of spec, so whether that means you can include it as baseline or not, I don't know. Sorry :S

    Edits:
    Checked the Mage: They have a passive ability called Wizardry, that provides the same bonus.
    Warlock's have Nethermancy; same bonus.
    As someone else explained, these are cloth proficiencies.
    Just thought I would add that it should not affect calculations, as he would have been subtracting the int straight out, and when you do that, it doesn't make a difference if you subtract 100% of int or 105% of int, you still end up with correct base mana.
    Last edited by thecomicrelief; 2010-09-22 at 12:58 AM. Reason: spelling

  5. #45
    High Overlord Etalia's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    160
    Quote Originally Posted by Vortrall View Post
    The question is, why not just bake them directly into the cloth classes? Seems kind of pointless when they can't equip any higher levels of gear.

    Edit: Or is that what it's doing, they're just passives and don't have any gear requirements?
    Yes, sorry for the confusion. They are just passive bonuses on the cloth wearers (Priest = Mysticism, Mages = Wizardy, Warlocks = Nethermancy). They have no requirements in the tooltip. For everyone else its called "X Specialisation", and require the wearing of the correct armor proficiency.

    The unique names for the cloth wearers is what confused me to begin with, until someone pointed out that's all it was. :P

    Just thought I would add that it should not affect calculations, as he would have been subtracting the int straight out, and when you do that, it doesn't make a difference if you subtract 100% of int or 105% of int, you still end up with correct base mana.
    Thanks! I didn't know how the calculations were done. I just provided the naked numbers.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by iLive View Post
    What will base mana be for the different classes in level 85?
    my mage's base mana is somewhere around 20k.

  7. #47
    Legendary! Holo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    6,287
    Quote Originally Posted by indigosbro View Post
    The premade characters at 85 have roughly 70-75k hp unbuffed as a dps/healer, the tanks are roughly 90-95k. Again these are premade characters using roughly deepholm level greens. I'll have to check when i get the chance for base mana. My premade shaman has 73k hp and 72k mana, so in 85 dungeon / heroic gear i'd be willing to bet hp/mana pools are going to be about 100-120k. Also, each level from 80-85 has ridiculous stat scaling, I'm talking 2-4k base hp and 1-3k base mana per level depending on your class.
    After level 83 its more like 10-12k base hp Not sure about the mana though

    i5-3570k @ 4.4GHz|8GB DDR3 1600MHz|EVGA GTX 670 FTW x2 SLI|Samsung 830 128GB SSD

  8. #48
    There is an easier way to find out your base mana - hover over a spell with a % of base mana as cost, see what the mana cost is... do maths.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Indiglo View Post
    98K, seems insane...
    The new Beta premade DK in crappy normal dungeon gear has 106K hp

    You'll probably see over 200,000 HP tanks in Cataclysm.

  10. #50
    This may have been said already but couldn't you just take a spell, for example, that uses 12% of your base mana. Percent of base mana is how mana cost per spell is described on databases outside of game. Assuming you are level 85, the tooltip in game would tell you the mana cost as a number rather than a percent.

    So in this case you would simply (100/12)*(amount of mana the spell uses). If no talents or buffs are affecting your mana cost wouldn't that give you your base mana or am I way off base here? (no pun intended)
    Last edited by Omega - Thrall; 2010-09-22 at 05:03 AM.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega - Thrall View Post
    This may have been said already but couldn't you just take a spell
    If I was clever I would have posted this idea two posts before you.... ... but come on 2 posts before ... jeez.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Dendrek View Post
    Bump.

    And before anyone answers this question, make sure you know what "Base Mana" means. It's the amount of mana you'd have if you had 0 talent points, no gear, and 0 int. Every level, you gain mana, hp, and a few points in each stat (str, agi, int, etc). So base mana is all the mana gained from leveling (if you ignore all of the int that was gained alongside it).

    If you aren't sure how to calculate Base Mana, but you do have a level 85 toon on the PTR, tell me how much mana you have with 0 gear (and 0 mana or int-increasing talent points) and the total amount of int that you have. I can calculate it from there. Also, tell me the mana cost of one or two of your spells (without talents that reduce mana cost) so I can confirm my calculation of your base mana.
    I fail to see why int matters, if you have no gear on and no talents, then that is base mana, you can't "calculate" it anymore than that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Relictus
    40KB-1Death: Holy fucking shit, I hate you guys. I never want to see you guys again. No team support at all.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparklelord View Post
    I fail to see why int matters, if you have no gear on and no talents, then that is base mana, you can't "calculate" it anymore than that.
    Wow this thread. You have quoted naked mana not base mana a common error as mentioned previously. The important number is Base which =nakedmana-manafromint. Base mana matters because thats what spells use.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Formless Voice View Post
    Wow this thread. You have quoted naked mana not base mana a common error as mentioned previously. The important number is Base which =nakedmana-manafromint. Base mana matters because thats what spells use.
    I see and I apologize.
    Still seems fairly useless information to me. "HAY GAIZ, MY HURRICANE IN CATA IS GOING TO COST 10k MANA!"
    I mean, you could compare it with current mana and find a rough estimate for how much mana you will have, but that is a terrible idea and probabaly extremely flawed and inaccurate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Relictus
    40KB-1Death: Holy fucking shit, I hate you guys. I never want to see you guys again. No team support at all.

  15. #55
    I didn't expect this thread to continue on as long as it has, but since it has, I have a few points to make:

    1. These values matter to me. In case it's not obvious, I like to theorycraft. I need numbers to theorycraft with. Although the use for these numbers are limited, they are useful, and they were previously unavailable until this thread was made.

    2. The "if a spell costs 12% of mana, just look at the spell cost and calculate the base mana" suggestions fail to take into account that Blizzard rounds its numbers (in the cast of spell costs, it always rounds down). Because of this, the value you get from that simplistic calculation will not be accurate. In fact, the value from that calculation can be off by +/- 9 points. I wanted accurate values, and the only way to obtain them was by getting basic mana and int values from someone like Etalia and calculating it myself.

    3. Why do people still insist on trying to explain to me what base mana is? Comments like "no body ever walks around with zero int" or "if you remove all of your gear and talents, then that is base mana" are amusing because they completely miss the point of this thread.

    And, as a recap, here are the base mana values for each class. Thank you again, Etalia!

    Priest = 20590
    Druid = 18635
    Mage = 17418
    Paladin = 23422
    Shaman = 23430
    Warlock = 20553
    Last edited by Dendrek; 2010-09-22 at 09:49 AM.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparklelord View Post
    I see and I apologize.
    Still seems fairly useless information to me. "HAY GAIZ, MY HURRICANE IN CATA IS GOING TO COST 10k MANA!"
    I mean, you could compare it with current mana and find a rough estimate for how much mana you will have, but that is a terrible idea and probabaly extremely flawed and inaccurate.
    Trinkets like this require Base Mana to be modeled.
    http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/60233/shard-of-woe/

    You would, I'd assume, take the average spells and their cost that you'd use in a boss fight to find out roughly how much mana this trinket saves over the course of a fight.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •