Are things really as bad as they sound for ret?

[Baever]

from what I've heard paladins are nerfed in pvp, and in pve it's an ok amount so I'm not saying anything about numbers or balance until actual release since that's when what they have stays unless we qq enough

Ret would work with PvE with number-balance, but PvP still needs a little bit of work or at least increased judgement/cs damage to compensate for the large ramp up on TV.

[rad586]

Ret would work with PvE with number-balance, but PvP still needs a little bit of work or at least increased judgement/cs damage to compensate for the large ramp up on TV.

Our AoE also needs abit of work. Watch Total Biscuit's videos of Stonecore Heroic - you need alot of AoE there, and fast. First boss and last boss require tons of AoE.

We can't have ramp-up time on our AoE of 4.5+ sec, where adds need to die ASAP.
4.5 sec assuming Gods of RNG favor you.

[Deleted]

i havent even specced into divine storm in any ret build ive made, i just cant see it being worthwhile in any shape or form atm.

[rad586]

i havent even specced into divine storm in any ret build ive made, i just cant see it being worthwhile in any shape or form atm.

Same. Spending ATLEAST 4.5 sec to use Divine Storm is way too long. Most of mobs that can be AoE'd will be killed by DK's/mages/locks/hunters/warriors/priests/rogues/shamans/druids before we even get 3 HP Not to mention getting into range
Or if mobs won't die fast enough they will wipe your group.

[Nillo]

I wonder, how many targets would you need to make Consecrate worth it? 2, 3 or even more?

Will probably be the same as Holy Wrath is atm (AOE only and then only if you have a free gcd and have enough mana....)

---------- Post added 2010-09-26 at 11:51 PM ----------

PS: Am I the only one that thinks they should either
1) Remove 1-2 Stack TV completely (who is going to use less than 3 stacks now anyway? !_!)
2) Allow it to stack up SoV (might at least make it worthwhile to start with some low Stack TVs at the start of a fight)

[Requital]

Will probably be the same as Holy Wrath is atm (AOE only and then only if you have a free gcd and have enough mana....)

---------- Post added 2010-09-26 at 11:51 PM ----------

PS: Am I the only one that thinks they should either
1) Remove 1-2 Stack TV completely (who is going to use less than 3 stacks now anyway? !_!)
2) Allow it to stack up SoV (might at least make it worthwhile to start with some low Stack TVs at the start of a fight)

If they removed the ability to use it at 1-2 HP they would effectively remove the smallest amount of skill they tried to add to it.

[Alenko]

Our AoE also needs abit of work. Watch Total Biscuit's videos of Stonecore Heroic - you need alot of AoE there, and fast. First boss and last boss require tons of AoE.

We can't have ramp-up time on our AoE of 4.5+ sec, where adds need to die ASAP.
4.5 sec assuming Gods of RNG favor you.

or you could save the 3 hp for the DS and do a DS/consecration....you don't HAVE to use the hp as soon as you get it.

---------- Post added 2010-09-27 at 01:14 AM ----------

i havent even specced into divine storm in any ret build ive made, i just cant see it being worthwhile in any shape or form atm.

after seeing Totalbiscuits vids it will be needed

[rad586]

or you could save the 3 hp for the DS and do a DS/consecration....you don't HAVE to use the hp as soon as you get it.

---------- Post added 2010-09-27 at 01:14 AM ----------




after seeing Totalbiscuits vids it will be needed

Yeah ..... you use 3 HP for DS ...... and then you need atleast 4.5 sec to use next one. Not to mention that consecration got rather long CD and is stationary. Doubt those mobs will stay in the same place or spawn on top of it.

[Ronark]

Yeah ..... you use 3 HP for DS ...... and then you need atleast 4.5 sec to use next one. Not to mention that consecration got rather long CD and is stationary. Doubt those mobs will stay in the same place or spawn on top of it.

DS makes a Divine Purpose check per target per cast.

I.E., if you are attacking 4 targets, you have a 4*(40)% chance to generate 1 Holy Power.

Same allies to HW.

[rad586]

DS makes a Divine Purpose check per target per cast.

I.E., if you are attacking 4 targets, you have a 4*(40)% chance to generate 1 Holy Power.

Same allies to HW.

Sweet, didn't know about that.
Anyway, what if we have to use all HP on WoG because healer is low on mana, tank is taking heavy beating, we're low on health and adds have spawned ? Holy Wrath is weaker when more adds are running around.
Is it wort using 1HP DS and pray to the gods of RNG for 3HP proc from it ? After all some of us are really unlucky with RNG.

[Ronark]

Sweet, didn't know about that.
Anyway, what if we have to use all HP on WoG because healer is low on mana, tank is taking heavy beating, we're low on health and adds have spawned ? Holy Wrath is weaker when more adds are running around.
Is it wort using 1HP DS and pray to the gods of RNG for 3HP proc from it ? After all some of us are really unlucky with RNG.

If you're in that situation, a.) you probably going to wipe, and b.) even if you got a WoG off, your healer would still be low on mana and your group would probably wipe.

Also, you can only get a max of 1 Holy Power from DS and HW.

[rad586]

Also, you can only get a max of 1 Holy Power from DS and HW.

Meh, so our AoE still sucks compared to other melee classes.

Seriously, which class requires such ramp-up time for their AoE ? Apart from Unholy Death Knights, but their diseases atleast stick to the targets, tick for fair ammount of damage and have no RNG included

---------- Post added 2010-09-28 at 05:30 AM ----------

Actually more changes are planned for paladin's HP system:

We were able to greatly improve the delay on receiving Holy Power from Divine Purpose. It still may not appear faster than you can hit your next button. To address that, we are going to try a model where if you have 3 Holy Power and get a fourth, you'll still receive that fourth Holy Power if you spend the first 3 within a couple of seconds. In essence, if the Holy Power is already "in the mail" you'll still get it. You can't hold it indefinitely, so you shouldn't treat the system as if you now have 4 Holy Power to play with. It just makes you less likely to waste a charge.

Barring something horribly unforeseen, there is no way we'll ultimately let a 2 Holy Power Templar's Verdict be the right way to play.