4.0 Arcane mage

[chrion]

Raiding specc is very obvious, this is what we will use at LVL 80 - http://wowtal.com/#k=lsnam3Wl.9zi.mage
And this is what well use when we get the other 5 points at 85 - http://wowtal.com/#k=ZwPWEUCPv.9zi.mage

The thing im not sure about is the changes to the rotation and obviously a lot of math by smarter people than myself will determine this so I figured there are a few interesting things we can talk about now.
1- Molten armor or Mage armor? I can see this depending on how many PI's and Innervates the raid plans on giving the arcane mage on every boss fight, but Mage armor is now giving back around 1k mana every 5 seconds to my mage, and with the new mastery giving 12% bonus damage if you keep your mana near full for the fight i can see MAYBE mage armor becoming used for Arc raiding mages?

2- Currently on live with the 30% ICC buff Its best to keep spamming Arcane blast until you get a missile procc even if that means going 12 blasts in a row, and you just generally call out for an innervate. BUT when ICC was new and I was working on heroic mode boss's before any ICC buff was released it was easier to go OOM, if you werent careful you could find yourself standing there wanding for 20 seconds waiting for Evoc to come off CD. So the answer then was to channel unprocc'd missiles at 4 stacks of blast because that was still better damage than clearing the 4 stack with a Barrage. So now with missiles unable to be cast without a procc you are unable to clear your 4 stack of blast with unprocced missiles. I noticed that the CD on barrage has been raised to 5 seconds up from 3 seconds and im guessing that is apart of there plan to raise the scaling damage of Barrage and not have it be OP in PVP, but so that raiders would now WANT to use it to clear Blast at 4 stacks if missiles did not procc.

3- You obviously cannot reach Icy Veins any more as an Arcane raid mage which leaves you with only Arcane Power to POP for damage CD's and this may lead alot to believe that Arcane is nerfed, but the difference so far for me is that instead of my deeps going to 15k self buffed on the dummy when I pop Mirrors, Power, Icy Veins, and then dropping to hover around 7k after my CD's are gone. On the PTR im holding a much more steady 9k self buffed. And thats with using Molten armor like on live, but clearing my blast stacks at 4 each time with either a Barrage or a Missile if procc'd. I have yet to test If spamming Blast Until Missiles procc and completely skipping the use of Barrage like you would on live and just letting the Mastery drop fast is worth it.

[paladruid]

Im probably guessing people will be leveling as fire.. rather than arcane.. just because of how optimal fire's mana efficiency can be during leveling.

[Swizzle]

1) You skipped Nether Vortex...why?
2) Icy Veins may be gone, but it has been replaced with a scaling and more potent self buff on a shorter CD: Imp Mana Gem.

[Archimand]

Raiding 2- Currently on live with the 30% ICC buff Its best to keep spamming Arcane blast until you get a missile procc even if that means going 12 blasts in a row, and you just generally call out for an innervate. BUT when ICC was new and I was working on heroic mode boss's before any ICC buff was released it was easier to go OOM, if you werent careful you could find yourself standing there wanding for 20 seconds waiting for Evoc to come off CD. So the answer then was to channel unprocc'd missiles at 4 stacks of blast because that was still better damage than clearing the 4 stack with a Barrage. So now with missiles unable to be cast without a procc you are unable to clear your 4 stack of blast with unprocced missiles. I noticed that the CD on barrage has been raised to 5 seconds up from 3 seconds and im guessing that is apart of there plan to raise the scaling damage of Barrage and not have it be OP in PVP, but so that raiders would now WANT to use it to clear Blast at 4 stacks if missiles did not procc.

3- You obviously cannot reach Icy Veins any more as an Arcane raid mage which leaves you with only Arcane Power to POP for damage CD's and this may lead alot to believe that Arcane is nerfed, but the difference so far for me is that instead of my deeps going to 15k self buffed on the dummy when I pop Mirrors, Power, Icy Veins, and then dropping to hover around 7k after my CD's are gone. On the PTR im holding a much more steady 9k self buffed. And thats with using Molten armor like on live, but clearing my blast stacks at 4 each time with either a Barrage or a Missile if procc'd. I have yet to test If spamming Blast Until Missiles procc and completely skipping the use of Barrage like you would on live and just letting the Mastery drop fast is worth it.

i was under the impression that Arcane barrage no longer clear your arcane blast stacks and have 100% chance to proc missiles was it changes or just ptr bug ? will be happy if anyone in the beta can answer

[Swizzle]

i was under the impression that Arcane barrage no longer clear your arcane blast stacks and have 100% chance to proc missiles was it changes or just ptr bug ? will be happy if anyone in the beta can answer

arcane barrage does nothing other than clear stacks and damage on PTR.

[Linkedblade]

I dont think Prismatic Cloak is that great, might help the healers. I would rather fully spec into Improved Polymorph and a single Point into Nether Vortex, need to remember having a slow debuff on the target allows TtW to increase your dps. The other points i would say take Imp Blink, so you can move faster in boss fights.

The imp Poly could be negligible now, but anyway I think at least 1 point in Nether Vortex is good. I also think that the Tier 2 Fire talent to give Fire Orb a 33% chance to explode might be beneficial, but thats still kinda runky to me.

[Hexxidecimal]

1) You skipped Nether Vortex...why?
2) Icy Veins may be gone, but it has been replaced with a scaling and more potent self buff on a shorter CD: Imp Mana Gem.

Nether Vortex doesn't serve a lot of purposes in raiding as the slow effect is given by almost every tank anyway. For whatever reason it's not there during a raid just hit them with slow and go, but those instances are far and few between.

The new potent self buff from Mana Gem is actually quite nice if for no other reason you get (have to) to use it so often. Though it's still not as good as Icy Veins for pure burst potential with in it's short active period, basically you'll be using it differently.

Overall Arcane feels less cool down dependent which is nice. Really they have inserted a lot of skill into the spec which wasn't there before. "Learning how to manage your mana" being the new mantra Blizzard is using is definitely reflected in Arcane. Basically it seems to me that the extreme spectrum's are not really supported. Just firing off missiles every time they proc will kill your DPS even with mastery and not clearing your stacks until missiles proc will have you OOM in a matter of seconds.

So it seems to me that you can't play like your are brain dead. You have to decide when you need to play more conservatively and when to burst a bit heavier using your cool downs, especially since your cool downs are connected to your mana usage.

Don't get me wrong I don't think it's overly difficult, like you are gonna have to be amazing to play a mage well, they are still one of the easiest classes to DPS with hands down, just that now you'll have to plan our your DPS increases and decreases a bit more rather than just dps as hard as you can all the time.

[chrion]

Nether vortex is a complete waste of points in a raid where boss's are immune to SLOW and the tanks are the ones (just like they have been all of WOTLK) that put the debuff on boss's to allow you to benefit from TOTW. Nether Vortex is a very very obvious PVP/Leveling talent.

---------- Post added 2010-09-16 at 03:06 AM ----------

I dont think Prismatic Cloak is that great, might help the healers. I would rather fully spec into Improved Polymorph and a single Point into Nether Vortex, need to remember having a slow debuff on the target allows TtW to increase your dps. The other points i would say take Imp Blink, so you can move faster in boss fights.

The imp Poly could be negligible now, but anyway I think at least 1 point in Nether Vortex is good. I also think that the Tier 2 Fire talent to give Fire Orb a 33% chance to explode might be beneficial, but thats still kinda runky to me.

No one in a raid should be breaking your marked sheep, the IMP poly talent is obviously strictly for PVP, leveling, or 5 man dungeons. The reason at 85 you would have 3/3 in Prismatic cloak is so you have instant invis (the damage reduction is little to no help, but ill take it anyway). Instant invis will allow you to /cancelaura immediately and keep your rotation going exactly where you had it 1 second ago, untalented you have to stand there for 3 seconds, wait for youreself to go invis, /cancelaura and then start your rotation over. So just like IMP Blink, it is an Indirect situational DPS buff and is actually slightly useful in a raid. IMP counterspell, Invocation, IMP poly, and nether vortex are absolutely completely worthless in every way shape and form against a raid boss.

---------- Post added 2010-09-16 at 03:10 AM ----------

Has anyone else on the PTR been able to get Mana Gems to work or are they borked for everyone?

---------- Post added 2010-09-16 at 03:24 AM ----------

Also Flame orb from what I have seen on Youtube (maybe a beta player can clear this up) moves very slowly and to get max damage ticks on a boss out of it you would have to get in melee range of the boss and then get back out to your spot to start your rotation over again, making it seem to me so far to probably not have a place in the Arcane raid rotation.

[Hexxidecimal]

I dont think Prismatic Cloak is that great, might help the healers. I would rather fully spec into Improved Polymorph and a single Point into Nether Vortex, need to remember having a slow debuff on the target allows TtW to increase your dps. The other points i would say take Imp Blink, so you can move faster in boss fights.

The imp Poly could be negligible now, but anyway I think at least 1 point in Nether Vortex is good. I also think that the Tier 2 Fire talent to give Fire Orb a 33% chance to explode might be beneficial, but thats still kinda runky to me.

Oh yeah, fire orb is on a considerable cool down and oft times moves past your intended mark, not really worth taking unless you are in fire.

Prismatic Cloak is way more necessary now than before. Healers can and will go OOM in cataclysm if the dps don't do what they can to reduce the damage. Anything like this helps immensely.

[chrion]

1) You skipped Nether Vortex...why?
2) Icy Veins may be gone, but it has been replaced with a scaling and more potent self buff on a shorter CD: Imp Mana Gem.

You got to /Facepalm at me for my frost mastery rotation mistake, and now I get to /Facepalm you for your nether vortex comment DERP :P
<3

[Swizzle]

You got to /Facepalm at me for my frost mastery rotation mistake, and now I get to /Facepalm you for your nether vortex comment DERP :P
<3

Wow, and I thought that was the end of your idiocy. I'll get back to the fail in your, and AsIlaydying's, posts after Halion.

---------- Post added 2010-09-16 at 04:10 AM ----------

Okay, let's begin. First off, bosses are immune to the movement speed reduction portion of Slow, but not the debuff itself. The only reason Slow is useless for DPS right now is that it does no damage for a GCD. Nether Vortex removes that penalty and allows for instant application on add switching, especially to adds that tanks don't actually tank (H PP slimes for one) or at least aren't on them right away. Arguing against the usefulness of Nether Vortex is like arguing against Magic Absorption: sure you don't see huge stat increases from it, but the versatility it offers is far superior to other talents.

Secondly, Imp. Mana Gem gives you 2% of your max mana as spellpower. At level 80, it gives me upwards of 800 spellpower every 2 minutes. Not only is this a shorter CD than Icy Veins, it gives a larger DPS increase for arcane due to arcane's mastery of more damage at more mana. These are all little nuances of DPS you learn when you get proficient enough at your class and the go beyond just seeing WHAT MAKES MAH DAMAGE GO RAWR BOOM BOOB. A good mage will ice block, invis, blink, nova, CS, and CoC to suit the raid needs. A bad mage will just spam his rotation.

[chrion]

Wow, and I thought that was the end of your idiocy. I'll get back to the fail in your, and AsIlaydying's, posts after Halion.

---------- Post added 2010-09-16 at 04:10 AM ----------

Okay, let's begin. First off, bosses are immune to the movement speed reduction portion of Slow, but not the debuff itself. The only reason Slow is useless for DPS right now is that it does no damage for a GCD. Nether Vortex removes that penalty and allows for instant application on add switching, especially to adds that tanks don't actually tank (H PP slimes for one) or at least aren't on them right away. Arguing against the usefulness of Nether Vortex is like arguing against Magic Absorption: sure you don't see huge stat increases from it, but the versatility it offers is far superior to other talents.

Secondly, Imp. Mana Gem gives you 2% of your max mana as spellpower. At level 80, it gives me upwards of 800 spellpower every 2 minutes. Not only is this a shorter CD than Icy Veins, it gives a larger DPS increase for arcane due to arcane's mastery of more damage at more mana. These are all little nuances of DPS you learn when you get proficient enough at your class and the go beyond just seeing WHAT MAKES MAH DAMAGE GO RAWR BOOM BOOB. A good mage will ice block, invis, blink, nova, CS, and CoC to suit the raid needs. A bad mage will just spam his rotation.

so 1st of all I thought we were playfully joking around and at the same time having fun chatting and learning about the changes that are INC in 4.0. Im not an Idiot, Ive been playing my mage with no alts for 5 years, have over 300 days played, 90k+ honor kills, I have been between 2200-2400 arena rating in 2v2 and 3v3 since season 4 consistently, and at the same time was The #1 mage and #1 caster in a World top 300 guild that got tribute to insanity, and 9/12 heroic ICC 25 man before any ICC buffs were given out. This isnt meant to be braggish, only to say I damn well know the class inside and out, and am damn good at it. Just so you stop thinking your talking to some scrub just because I made a mistake in your PTR post about the new frost rotation, and then commended you for being correct.

So onto your other points, Theres a reason we dont specc into slow on live, because its completely unneccesary, On prof. Putricide the off tank applies a slow.... The only moment where I can see Nether Vortex being even slightly useful outside of PVP and Soloing is on the Axe throwers on the gunship and they dont matter for shit. Everything else in the raid you hit has a slowing debuff applied to it that procs TOTW for you. Its at the very best a talent you would grab if you were facing a boss that released an add that you had to kite and attack alone. the only reason to even put 1 point into slow is to get Arcane Power in 4.0. having Nether Vortex would cause you to see the words IMMUNE across your screen every Arcane Blast and your DPS will be exactly the same because the debuff is applied to everything by other class's naturally, Hence its a complete waste of points. Whereas having those points into IMP blink will allow you to move from fire, get to your spot, and back to your rotation faster. Prismatic cloak will allow you to say go from 3 stacks of Blast, drop aggro 100% with instant invis, /cancelaura, and cast blast fast enough to get your 4th stack before the 3rd one drops off, and continue the rotation smoothly without having to start over again. Why lose those useful every boss talents for something you might ever need to specc into for a particular boss once, for a job a hunter can do better anyway.

Your 2nd point I agree and have agreed that the new mana gem talent is sweet, and thats why it is apart of my raid specc at the top of this post. So its like your arguing a point I never made? Its clearly a PVE spell booster whereas Invocation is obviously the PVP spell booster so No argument there, it looks great. The only issue I had with it was it seeming bugged out on the PTR. When i make a gem it doesnt appear in my bags, so I was asking if you had gotten yours to work as I havent gotten to test it yet.

And now that those points are settled, how about Molten Armor VS Mage Armor?

[Iamsylar]

Go for fire... God damnit that is fun!

[Deleted]

Im not an Idiot

Stopped reading here, I don't like liars.

Swizzle is right, however.

[siaro]

Stopped reading here, I don't like liars.

Swizzle is right, however.

HI FANBOI!

ppl treat swizzle with to much respect if you ask me, he looks down on everyone but himself, to me hes just another smartass who thinks hes the best, not saying hes not, he might be, but you gotta know your not the only one who knows this shit mate

Chrion, i agree with everything you just said!

[chrion]

Stopped reading here, I don't like liars.

Swizzle is right, however.

Really that has to be the most useless shit nonsense Ive heard all day. L2 read and think for youreself. Also Im pretty sure you can armory my toon and see the dates I killed the ICC boss's on heroic, and look at my arena rating go from 2200-2400 on the graph for the Arena season...

[Brael]

<INSERT WALL OF TEXT>

Reading through this, I thought of this.. why wouldn't you just spec like this instead:

http://wowtal.com/#k=ZwP2OEfG.9zi.mage

Thought this would make more sense, no?

Also, Chrion, if you want people to bother reading your posts, you can at least have the decency to put some structure and punctuation into them. I'm not saying your an idiot and this isn't personal against you, but walls of text like that are a pain in the ass. Now, both of you kiss and make-up and stop whining like little bitches.

[Polarthief]

I dont think Prismatic Cloak is that great, might help the healers. I would rather fully spec into Improved Polymorph and a single Point into Nether Vortex, need to remember having a slow debuff on the target allows TtW to increase your dps. The other points i would say take Imp Blink, so you can move faster in boss fights.

The imp Poly could be negligible now, but anyway I think at least 1 point in Nether Vortex is good. I also think that the Tier 2 Fire talent to give Fire Orb a 33% chance to explode might be beneficial, but thats still kinda runky to me.

This specc is for level 80 to use in ICC. Fire Orb is a level 81 spell. This post is redundant =/

[Brael]

This specc is for level 80 to use in ICC. Fire Orb is a level 81 spell. This post is redundant =/

If you bothered to look at the first post properly, he linked what the spec should look like at 80 AND when you get the 5 extra points.

[chrion]

Reading through this, I thought of this.. why wouldn't you just spec like this instead:

http://wowtal.com/#k=ZwP2OEfG.9zi.mage

Thought this would make more sense, no?

Also, Chrion, if you want people to bother reading your posts, you can at least have the decency to put some structure and punctuation into them. I'm not saying your an idiot and this isn't personal against you, but walls of text like that are a pain in the ass. Now, both of you kiss and make-up and stop whining like little bitches.

Because Nether Vortex isnt a raid talent.