Focus Magic

[Squirreludecker]

What's a "Frostfire" mage?

frostfire or "FFB" specced mage, one who primarily specs to pimp out their frostfire bolt spell

[Swizzle]

Arcane and Fire both have the same crit damage bonus. +50% which means they're both critting for 200%. frost goes up to 250%, and frostfire build get i believe 300% on frostfire bolt.

I cut the rest of your post out because this first part precludes anything else you were going to say anywhere at any time. I want you to read what I quoted carefully, then read it two more times. Once you've done that, I want you to hand write an apology to me and anyone else who may have read your post so that we may forget this transgression. After ALL of that, I would like you to go back to high school and take a math course, preferably Algebra or Calculus, and ask them to teach you what 50% of 50 is. Once that is done, you can come back here, and post the correct numbers. Only then will you be a person again.

[Fujisaw]

LOL swizzle that was pro

but you shouldnt worry about how often other casters crit. there is really no caster that wont give you 100% uptime now adays with the gear everyone has unless you still raiding Ulduar. the thing you should worry about is the class that gets the most outta 3% extra crit.

[Seikilos]

What's a "Frostfire" mage?

when you spec Arcane, you sub-spec frost for icy veins.

when you spec Fire or Frost, you sup-spec Arcane for Torment the Weak.

your other choice is to spec Fire and sub-spec frost. its pretty much the same rotation as fire, except you spam frostfire bolt instead of fireball. this is because frostfire bolt gets the crit multiplier of fire AND frost, so while it doesn't hit as hard as fireball, it crits harder.[COLOR="red"]

---------- Post added 2010-09-18 at 09:09 PM ----------

I cut the rest of your post out because this first part precludes anything else you were going to say anywhere at any time. I want you to read what I quoted carefully, then read it two more times. Once you've done that, I want you to hand write an apology to me and anyone else who may have read your post so that we may forget this transgression. After ALL of that, I would like you to go back to high school and take a math course, preferably Algebra or Calculus, and ask them to teach you what 50% of 50 is. Once that is done, you can come back here, and post the correct numbers. Only then will you be a person again.

what did i get wrong?

[Hallto]

If I remember correct, last time the frostfire spec was viable it was back in Trial of the Grand Crusader 25man on Anub, this was mainly for AoE.

Also, I set firemage above all other classes/specs because it is one of the best specs in PvE in-game atm. It crits a lot and for a big amount

[Fujisaw]

what did you get wrong? you think that you need to put it on someone that would keep it up 100% is better for the raid than putting it on a class that benefits more from the extra crit. every caster in 264 should keep it up 100%. i always put it on a Fire mage or Shadow priest if fire mage isnt there i totally ignore the other arcane mage

[Flaubertlives]

So much bad maths on this thread. I can't post links yet, but here's a link to settle the mage crit issue. And as far as I can remember, Elge has the correct priority order on the previous page.

elitistjerks.C O M/f75/t37364-frostfire_bolt_thread_updated_3_2_2_a/

See the 4th table down for answers.

EDIT: grammar

[aeonorion]

Either another mage or a friend if i'm playing with one.

[Seikilos]

what did you get wrong? you think that you need to put it on someone that would keep it up 100% is better for the raid than putting it on a class that benefits more from the extra crit. every caster in 264 should keep it up 100%. i always put it on a Fire mage or Shadow priest if fire mage isnt there i totally ignore the other arcane mage

i meant what did i get wrong in the crit multipliers.

and i think a +3% crit chance is really really subjective as to who you put it on. i rarely have fire mages or shadow priests in my raids for some strange reason (most of my server has arcane mages, and we're relatively low on healers so most priests are disco or holy).

the buff is for YOU which is why its in a dps class's talent tree. i could see someone arguing that power infusion is for the improvement of other people since it's a healer's spell, and i could see people arguing that a tanking blood DK's hysteria is meant to be for the improvement of others, but FM to me has always been about improving your own crit chance in a fun way.

i agree that most of the time whoever i put it on, even a disc priest, keeps it up on me 100% of the time. but only an elemental shaman has a guaranteed crit every 8 seconds. holy paladins have a spell that can guarantee a crit, but its not every 8 seconds. even if someone had an 80% crit chance, they could still, by some strange RNG, suddenly not crit for 10 seconds at a time. its highly unlikely, but still plausible. however you could also argue that the elemental shaman could be running when he's supposed to cast his next lava burst and my FM would fall off.

[Tobyone]

What's a "Frostfire" mage?

A mythical creature.

[Swizzle]

i meant what did i get wrong in the crit multipliers.

I'd suggest learning what they are first, then you can make mistakes about them.

[Boomtown]

These threads are pointless. Hell even a Mut Rogue has given me 100% up time on FM from poison crits when we were stuffing around as a joke. In end game a class who has any kind of magic spell that can crit will be able to crit before FM fades from you. Just choose whoever will benefit the most for the raid overall in the situation if no other Mage is available.

[Seikilos]

I'd suggest learning what they are first, then you can make mistakes about them.

do you have to be an ass? at least you could be a helpful ass. make fun of me while you correct me rather than just making fun of me.

the way i understand it is that spell crits are 150% of normal damage before talents and gems etc. so a spell that would hit for 1000 would hit for 1500. i always thought that talents like Spell Power for arcane for Burnout for fire increased that additively, so a spell that hits for 1000 would now hit for 2000. i would call that 200% of normal damage. part of the reason i thought that was probably because Death Knights crit for 200% of normal damage on spells, and i was told that that brought them to other casters before talents. this was further supported in my brain by the fact that in cataclysm all casters deal 200% of normal damage on crits so that they could easily remove the talents that increased crit damage. i thought that this made it so arcane and fire would stay where they are now, but based on what im learning today it seems like they'd be critting for more than they currently are.

according to what i'm understanding from the elitistjerks page that was linked, an arcane spell that hits for 1000 would now crit for 1817.5 instead of 2000, and a fire spell would 2544.5 instead of 2000. this would mean that the new "baseline" 200% crit for all casters would mean arcane is being buffed and fire is being nerfed, while i originally thought they would both remain the same.

also, if i'm looking at the balance and elemental trees right, would that mean boomkins and ele shaman crit for 200% of normal damage while arcane crits for only 175% (just counting talents)?

[Bullettime]

Fire mages alternating is always the best choice. If you have a fire and an arcane mage in a 25 though, arcane should give it to fire and fire to a shadow priest. That way the fire mage gets his 6% crit total and shadow priest can use the crit much better than the arcane mage as it boosts all dot ticks, flay ticks, and blast (if still using it.) If you just have arc mages, you'd be better handing it to any spriests in the raid before even considering giving it to the other mage for the highest rDPS. Mages just have the false assumption that circle jerking between arc mages is better dps since it's a very very minor increase to them instead of how much it would be to give to others.

[Swizzle]

Sigh, this game is what? 6 years old? The MELEE critical strike damage modifier is 100%, so their crits are 200% base damage. All casters are baseline 50% critical strike damage modifier, bringing their crits to 150% base damage. Talents and items that increase the critical strike damage modifier affect the 50%, not the 100%. So a talent that increases critical strike damage by 50% brings the total to 150+25= 175%, with the extra 6.75% coming from CSD, the caster meta gem. If there is a talent that buffs critical strike damage by 100%, then you get 150+50=200%, with the CSD functioning the same way.

And there you have, crit damage modifiers explained...as we're moving into the 3rd expansion.

[Seikilos]

Sigh, this game is what? 6 years old? The MELEE critical strike damage modifier is 100%, so their crits are 200% base damage. All casters are baseline 50% critical strike damage modifier, bringing their crits to 150% base damage. Talents and items that increase the critical strike damage modifier affect the 50%, not the 100%. So a talent that increases critical strike damage by 50% brings the total to 150+25= 175%, with the extra 6.75% coming from CSD, the caster meta gem. If there is a talent that buffs critical strike damage by 100%, then you get 150+50=200%, with the CSD functioning the same way.

And there you have, crit damage modifiers explained...as we're moving into the 3rd expansion.

thank you.

and just because the game has been out for six years, it doesn't mean i've been playing it for six years and deeply understand every aspect of it. that would be like saying that just because someone has heard a Bohemian Rhapsody, they've been listening to it since 1975, knows where it was recorded, who the sound engineer was, what time of day the operatic section was completed, and what gauge strings Brian May was using.

or you could mean that since its been out for six years, there should be sources on the internet that i could find with the same information.

so. this means arcane crit damage is being buffed and fire crit damage is being nerfed then?

[Swizzle]

All casters in Cataclysm are having their crit damage modifier bumped up to 100% for double critical strike damage to reduce the need for those talents since they were boring and mandatory.

[Reinhard von Lohengramm]

Mage>anything else for me (unless they are FFB, in which case they get /kick from raid

I cut the rest of your post out because this first part precludes anything else you were going to say anywhere at any time. I want you to read what I quoted carefully, then read it two more times. Once you've done that, I want you to hand write an apology to me and anyone else who may have read your post so that we may forget this transgression. After ALL of that, I would like you to go back to high school and take a math course, preferably Algebra or Calculus, and ask them to teach you what 50% of 50 is. Once that is done, you can come back here, and post the correct numbers. Only then will you be a person again.

sig'd for awesomeness

edit: its to big (inb4 thats wat she said) /sadpanda

[Deleted]

Mage>anything else for me (unless they are FFB, in which case they get /kick from raid


sig'd for awesomeness

edit: its to big (inb4 thats wat she said) /sadpanda

I would sig that, but your name is just too bad.

Anyway FM goes to the other Mage, but only if they give me theirs. They give me it, i give them it. No point just taking and not giving </innuendo>

Serious face: Normally rotate it between the Mages but if I'm the lone ranger, then I give it to whoever benefits most from it, normally the highest caster DPS.

[Seikilos]

if we're really going for "whatever can help the raid most", wouldn't you want to put it on healers? i know i already do for dreamwalker, but especially on hard modes i'd think having healers crit more often would be better than having dps crit more often.