Prot Warrior tanking tips

[AwesomeSauceUK]

I have levelled in Prot with no issues, and I continue to do dailies in Prot, but I feel I need some pointers when it comes to tanking in dungeons. I understand that I need to maintain a lot of threat and take aggro from the DPS and healers if need be.

I know there are abilities that help with this, like Thunder Clap, Heroic Strike, Taunt, and Challenging Shout.

What I need help with is how and when to actually use these abilities.

It would also be helpful to know how to recognise when it's not my fault that the team wipes. I don't intend to blame the healers or DPS guys for every wipe, and I'm willing to admit I'm inexperienced, but I'm pretty sure there are times when the team will blame me and votekick me, when in actuality the fault lies elsewhere.

Any and all help will we greatly appreciated.

[Deleted]

99% of the time it's not your fault provided you:
- Know the fight mechanics.
- You used all the appropriate cooldowns to stay alive before you died.
- You didn't pull extra packs.
- You made sure your healer was ready to take the next pull.

Heres a few tips:

1) Taunt and Challenging Shout are not for your rotation. You don't cast them when they come off cooldown and you don't use them at the beginning of a pull. They are designed to be used if the dps pull off you mid-way through the fight; use them situationally but keep them closely keybound.

2) Shield Bash is great for re-positioning casters. If a caster mob is interrupted then it will automatically move into melee range a lot of the time.

3) Make sure you mark the mobs in packs. It's a lot easier to direct your threat onto targets that you know the dps will prioritise. Keybind the F1 -> F9 keys (or something out of the way) to set marks on your targets for extra speed.

4) Learn to use LoS (Line of Sight). Use Heroic Throw on a pack (for example) and run just around the corner. Not only will all the ranged mobs move conveniently into melee range but they will also be out of aggro sight of additional packs. Learning the good and bad spots to LoS in each dungeon will save a lot of wipes.

5) Keybound an ability like Taunt or Shield Bash onto your middle mouse button. This is a button your finger will almost always be resting on and have access to, therefore, it's a great button for reactionary abilities that you need to get off quickly.

[Tuvok]

One that I always find the crowd loves, is a fast reaction charge to a knockback effect, I've been called all kinds of cool names for doing that with the blood wing liches and other mobs. Always keep your charges and intervene keybound, along with taunt, and even the cooldowns, in emergency situations there is no time for looking for the button.
(That's if you haven't already done that of course, it's just especially important for us to have those abilities ready at a spit second)

Glyph cleave for heroics, hit TC every CD, but don't hit shockwave at the pull unless you are comfortable with the aggro, as you need the initial rage build up from being hit to cause some threat on them, if you stun them right off the bat you are running on fumes for 4 seconds, and cleave is a fantastic aoe tool that you will get used to using. It's something that is only learned in time as you get to know and get familiar with your average rage income on trash packs.

It really is about getting the groove on over time, it becomes second nature after a couple of weeks, and you will start to learn new tricks and ways of improving less and less over time, however even nowadays I still figure out the odd little thing to improve myself, it just hits you like a brainwave after doing something else 100 times.

Get an addon to keep track of your debuffs, it's important to keep TC up steadily on bosses, but not refresh it every 8 seconds, as it's a waste of a GCD unless there are adds or you need to apply the debuff. Same goes for demo shout and sunder, that's three things with a 30 second duration that need to be tended too.

Something that shows you sword and board procs will help too, unless you are comfortable with wathcing your cds on your ability icons.

With caster pulls like the first ICC istance, use your silences to position them. For example a pack with three casters should be handled like this for good positioning: Charge one and shield bash it, heroic throw the second, and move towards the third caster with the silenced casters and the melee mobs, line them up and shockwave/TC.

Rotate glyph of taunt with cleave glyph depending on the boss, for example Saurfang, Fester, LK etc. Have mocking blow keybound just in case it misses, same with challenging shout.

That's all for now!

[JustintimeSS]

The advice the other posters gave were pretty much what you should be trying to do. One thing that may help you a little with AOE tanking is an addon called TidyPlates and ThreatPlates. Those two addons are wonderful and have a great visual assistance for AOE tanking packs.

I have two styles of tanking. Single target and Multi target.

For single target I use a different priority list with a closer observance to debuffs. It sort of goes like this for priorities:
Shield Slam>Revenge> Devastate. There of course is a small build up phase after initially gaining a threat lead where you want to stack sunders to 5 and get TC and Demo up (dependent on the mob type of course). After you get the debuffs rolling you focus on just doing the priority. Is Shield Slam ready? Use it. If not, use Revenge. If neither are ready spam devastate. Keep refreshing your debuffs before they expire and watch your shout so it also does not fall off. The entire time HS should be staying queued. Of course rage dictates that, but that is something learned over time that you acquire a feel for.

For multi targets I do this a majority of the time as a priority:
Shockwave>TC>S&B>Revenge. Notice I do not use devastate and when i do use Shield Slam it is when it is free. I use ALL of my rage for those 3 abilities and for the money maker, aka cleave. Have it glyphed and spam it until you pass out or the mobs die. I also use tab to target through the mobs to splash the cleaves, revenges and free shield slams around. Others might disagree with this style but I have a secret... It works. It is called rage allocation.

One last thing to remember is the pull. Regardless of the type of pull you have to have it planned out. Everyone has a style they like to do but there is just some common tactics to do which makes things go super smooth.

1. Silence the caster so they position with the rest of the mobs. Multiple caster mobs means using HT for one and positioning the rest of the mobs on the other.
2. Bloodrage can cause initial threat while charging a pack.
3. Have cleave or HS queued while you charge (depending on single or multiple target).
4. Use LOS if you need to group up a massive amount of spread out mobs.
5. Have the position of the pack already planned out and get them there fast. Dont move them around afterwards.

A single target pull should resemble this:
Charge>(during charge animation)queue HS>Shield Slam>Taunt>5 Sunders>Priority List

A multi target pull should resemble this:
Mark the caster with a skull> Charge and taunt(skull)>(During charge animation)queue cleave>TC>One step backwards>Shockwave>Priority List

Obviously other people will have various personal styles that might not be like mine. This is what I do and have done the entirety of this expansion and it still works. Dont get too comfortable though because you will have to relearn it all over again when 4.0 goes live. That is a whole other style reminiscent of TBC.

One last thing...

you don't use them at the beginning of a pull. They are designed to be used if the dps pull off you mid-way through the fight;

All of your advice was spot on except for this.You can absolutely use taunt after you pull, on the main target, to force it to stay on you for the duration of the debuff. This buys you plenty of time for positioning and spreading threat out without losing the main targeted mobs attention and you do not have to spend a lot of GCDs or rage specifically for it. It is even more powerful in single target tanking on the pull because it works as an emergency backup to a missed/avoided shield slam AND it buys you time to stack sunders efficiently.

[Deleted]

Everyone does AoE in dungeons these days. You have two AoE abilties and another two Cleave abilities. You will spend most of your rage and GCDs on these. If you hit all mobs with your AoEs on every CD and spread your cleaves as evenly as possible, then you're doing your thing.

If you do this and a Mage pulls aggro on something while he AoEs, then it's his fault. Don't be a dick, though, it's not very easy for the dps to read threat at all times, make sure to pick the lost mobs up asap. Taunt + Heroic Throw one mob while you charge and Mocking Blow another. There are plenty of useful abilities.

If you do this and a Hunter pulls aggro from somthing with his single target abilities, then it's his fault.

It's not big deal to retaunt a lost mob and it's not really anyone's fault you lost a mob, but if it happens repeatedly from one player, make sure to ask him to chill a bit. If you often lose aggro to others, look over your play style and see if there's anything you can do differently. Hit that extra dangerous, or the extra big mob of the pull with a single target ability every now and then, they're popular single target targets. Use you AoEs a tad earlier, TC has longer range than what you expect, and you can run through the pack of mobs you just pulled to get some mob into range.

When to use the abilities, you ask? There's no good answer, you should always use what's necessary to prevent the other members of your group to take damage. Key things to identify is 1.) Lost aggro (use any of your taunts, stuns or high threat abilities. Decide which one's the best for the moment), 2.) A chain/AoE spell/Whirlwind cast (can be interrupted, stunned, disarmed or cancelled by you being out of LoS), 3.) Freshly summoned mobs, patrols or overpulls (Yes, they happen. Don't hesitate to fear them, do whatever is necessary to pick up the new mobs), and 4.) Low threat mobs (did you miss TC or something? Was Revenge parried? Was a mob out of range from TC or SW?).

Get the addon Tidyplates and extend it with Threatplates, make yourself a pretty configuration and voila you're the best tank ever. Did you screw up a pull with mobs attacking several different targets? Don't hesitate to use Challenging Shout, it's the pull that's what's most important. Did you lose all your aggro to the healer? No matter, this is common on the pull, the healer throws a bubble or something on you before you generated any threat, just hit them with Thunder Clap and they're back on you. Did you lose aggro on a big mob or a caster at 50% hp? Throw a taunt, hit it with Shield Slam, leave it alone because it will die before you lose aggro again.

[Deleted]

Trash tanking could feel a little bit tricky with a prot warrior if you're new, but once you get comfortable you'll really like it.
One thing I want to add before my wall of text... prot warriors have AWESOME aoe threat. I have all four tank classes and while paladins win on static huge aoe fights overall, druids have no problems spamming swipe and being bored to death, death knights getting great sustained threat when all the deaseses are spread and start to thick...none of the tank classes can beat a prot warrior on snap agro, Thunderclap is pure awesome, and shockwave hits HARD! If you play your cards right and keep doing max threat to all mobs, no other tank will steal your threat without sweating.

Ok, let's look at different tanking sitations:

5man heroic
If the healer is ok and your gear is fine, don't worry about chargin out of range, if dps can't reach your targets you will have a bit more time to build up agro and anyway, you'll be able to use stuns so incoming damage won't be that much of an issue. A stunned target does 0 dmg as we all know T10 set bonuss is also a great thing if healer is out of range

basically what you should do for each pull is:
charge, thunderclap imediately, hit revenge if it procced since it hits two targets, check wich target received the least amount of abuse and smack his face with a shield slam, at this moment all mobs should be grouped up. if there's a caster use heroic throw while charging or charge on that target, hit shield bash to silence it and use heroic throw on another target, pulls can be tricky since you could be using 3 abilities at the same time and 2 more after that. try to save heroic throw for casters since that's an easy way how to group them up. At this point do not hesitate to use Shockwave and after the stun effect ends use shield block. This will not ony help mitigate more damage but you will do more damage to the mobs because of 2/2 Damage Shield. After that just tab targets and use single target abilities on each target till thunderclap and shockwave is ready. personally I don't like to use Glyph of Cleaving because imo it's just lame to spec/glyph for trash, you really don't need that +1 cleave hit. Anyway, for aoe situations you should replace heroic strike with cleave.
If you're gathering up a lot of trash packs you can use demoralizing Shout while running as a way to be sure that healer hots etc won't do more threat and demo shout is great anyway since it reduces massive amount of inc damage

Marking something with {skull} is not a bad idea, at least then all the dps (hopefully) will do their aoe through that target

Now let's say you're in a group with very well geared dps, if there's for example a fury warrior you're pretty much screwed since he will easily overagro with whirlwind + cleave, can't really do much about that, using shockwave would be smart to reduce the incoming damage on that fury warrior and give you some time to spam tab and single give each target a shield slam, revenge, devastate, taunt or whatever is available.
Lately I'm not trying to build up as much threat as I used to, for example - a shadowpriest pulls agro on a mob, I will just taunt it and ignore it since that mob will be dead either before the taunt effect ends or before it reaches the caster dps or I could just use Concussion Blow to stun it, many options there!

Vigiliance! Allways use it! ideally you would want to put it on the best melee dps if he pulls agro frequently, at least your taunt cd will be refreshed when he receives damage and getting all that trash back will be more easy since you won't be in a situation ''oh snap, my taunt is on cd''
oh yeah, if taunt is on cd and you really have nothing available at the moment, use Mocking Blow!


Raid environment
Actually I would say that tanking trash in a raid is much more easy than in a 5man, since in most of the situations some targets will be marked and you don't have to tank alone. But basically your rotation should be +/- the same as in a 5man heroic. Just that don't charge out of range, check if you're HoTed and if healers are ready, charge -> thunderclap -> shockwave -> use demoralizing Shout -> hit Shield block and prioritise revenge, use cleave, shield slam... etc etc all while tabbing tragets and trying to spread all your damage as much as possible, Still no need to smash your keyboard like a madman, let those other tanks tank something as well!

[Epiclurker]

You will need a thick skin to deal with the idiots out there. Never allow people to get under your skin with rude remarks. I personally have a very simple rules when I tank dungeons.
The tank is there to keep the healer alive.
The healer is there to keep the tank alive.
The dps can watch its own ass.
It basiclly means that if things go south then the dps can back off but the tank and healer can't.

[JustintimeSS]

hit revenge if it procced since there's a 60% chance for it to hit two targets

That's not how revenge works. It always hits a second target.

[Deleted]

That's not how revenge works. It always hits a second target.

sorry, typo! yeah, it always hits two targets now making it ideal for aoe situations

fixed

PS. When that patch came out I imediately noticed a huge aoe threat and damage improvement! -1 rng stun traded to buffed dmg and the ability hitting an aditional target. Awesome!

[davesurfer]

99% of the time it's not your fault provided you:
4) Learn to use LoS (Line of Sight). Use Heroic Throw on a pack (for example) and run just around the corner. Not only will all the ranged mobs move conveniently into melee range but they will also be out of aggro sight of additional packs. Learning the good and bad spots to LoS in each dungeon will save a lot of wipes.

and yet even when you tell everyone you are going to LoS, there is always one DPS who runs out anyway

[JustintimeSS]

and yet even when you tell everyone you are going to LoS, there is always one DPS who runs out anyway

So damn true.

@Rozijs

Thanks for fixing that. I figured it was a typo. And yes, that revenge change was GD amazing.

[AwesomeSauceUK]

and yet even when you tell everyone you are going to LoS, there is always one DPS who runs out anyway

Hmm, I've been doing dungeons in Fury spec for DPS lately, rather than Tanking. So I can get to know the routines, and also it's easier to farm emblems to improve my gear that way, I just play bejewelled while I wait for an invite lol.

Well I'm assuming that when the Tank says he's going to use LoS, you disregard the usual procedure of getting behind the mob(s), and instead make sure you can't pull other mobs.

[Devlin1991]

on bosses a good way to pull to get amazing initial threat is this.
Battle stance>retaliation
berserker stance>recklessness
def stance>shield block
Heroic throw (CRIT)>charge as its in the air
Shield slam(CRIT)+ Queued up Crit Heroic Strike

All 3 crits will land in the first milliseconds after you charge so you should take no more than 1 hit that does 25% more a lot of the time you take no hits + you have shield block on anyway so it kind of cancels out the extra hit.

---------- Post added 2010-09-21 at 09:26 PM ----------

You will need a thick skin to deal with the idiots out there. Never allow people to get under your skin with rude remarks. I personally have a very simple rules when I tank dungeons.
The tank is there to keep the healer alive.
The healer is there to keep the tank alive.
The dps can watch its own ass.
It basiclly means that if things go south then the dps can back off but the tank and healer can't.

I agree on not letting stupid comments get to you. But as tanks I feel its our job to do everything in our power to keep mobs off another player, that includes multiple taunts per pull and use of intervenes. When a dps really outgears you they WILL pull threat on both aoe packs and on bosses. Always throw vigilance up on the top threat dps of the group.

Make sure to use a good nameplate addon, Tidyplates: Threat plates is a really nice one. when a mob turns yellow/orange immediately swap to it and smash its face with anything to bring your threat back up. As soon as a dps pulls aggro (not like the mob will kill them in a 5man so don't rage at them for it) taunt it back and preferably charge it and land some big hits on it to try to gather a threat lead.

[Cigss]

I recently got my little protwar to lvl 80 and have begun the gearing process. Just getting super carried by guild gold runs and random heroics. I used to tank on my paladin (wrath only) and had a great time with it. I have since sold the paladin and had to lvl up a warrior to do my tanking. (hunter main, disc priest alt, and protwar alt)

The thing im having troube with is the SEVERE difference in tanking styles. paladin was 9-6-9-6-9 regardless of situation. threat was plentiful and nobody pulls off of me. i can literally run down my keyboard in my order and never have a problem, raid or dungeon. I can honestly say the skill cap for protwar is significantly higher than protpal. (i tanked naxx - ulduar reg with protpal as main)im LOVING these forums and especially this thread for all the little nuances of protwar playstyle, but like for example my hunter has 2 blogs i check religiously. warcrafthuntersunion(dot)com and outdps(dot)com those two sites are very frequently updated and are jam packed with all the sexy little nuggets you would ever want to see about hunters.

I was just curious if anyone knew like a super protwar blog? prot section on EJ is limited, and i cant personally locate any amazing protwar blogs myself so i thought id ask here. this thread is immensely helpful, ive learned alot here alone. its annoying enough being in 200lvl blues with all the 277dps just blasting shit before i even finish my initial charge and then blaming me for being an uber noob. shit i even have a macro saying im not geared (though im def capped and ~30k self buffed)and that im new in general to protwar. obviously im getting frustrated at the "lolubadbrah" comments and its a breath of fresh air to see im doing things (mostly) right. super love to the mods for keeping this shit cleaned up btw. cluttered annoying forums suck dick.

[Alianthos]

Shit i'm too late, all the niggers (Justin, Iyona, Tuvok and Devlin mostly <3 ) gave all the yummy advices already...

Well i'm just gonna give you a picture to emphasize the UBER TANKING ADDON : Tidyplates + Threadplates

Here's an old UI of mine. Dont bother with the bullshit, raid UI and talent bars. Just look the mobs lifebar.
GREEN = GOOD, I GOT IT ON ME.
RED = POTENTIALLY BAD, ITS NOT ON ME WTF. Now, in a raid there may be other tanks so usually i just mousever the mob and see who he's targeting. In a 5m situation, you can be sure that if it's red, it's on a dps / healer and it's bad. That's the proper time to taunt that mob back.

Try it, love it !

[Dillybear]

cleave cleave cleave, and there my friend is what you need to do.

[JustintimeSS]

Shit i'm too late, all the niggers (Justin, Iyona, Tuvok and Devlin mostly <3 ) gave all the yummy advices already...

Well i'm just gonna give you a picture to emphasize the UBER TANKING ADDON : Tidyplates + Threadplates

Here's an old UI of mine. Dont bother with the bullshit, raid UI and talent bars. Just look the mobs lifebar.
GREEN = GOOD, I GOT IT ON ME.
RED = POTENTIALLY BAD, ITS NOT ON ME WTF. Now, in a raid there may be other tanks so usually i just mousever the mob and see who he's targeting. In a 5m situation, you can be sure that if it's red, it's on a dps / healer and it's bad. That's the proper time to taunt that mob back.

Try it, love it !

I especially love the new version of tidyplats: Threatplates. It has your personal debuffs showing on the bars. I love that addon.

[Griefel]

- use charge(intercept/intervene) - gets you there before the rest, gives you rage
- use dps gear - if you have to much defense for heroics(above 535) equip some of your dps offspec gear(only if it's the same item lvl or better)
- get and use Vigilance
- spam survivability cooldowns whenever your hp is below 50%
- taunt whatever doesn't hit you, if taunt is of cooldown then things are bad, also make sure you keybind it so it's in the easiest place to access
- use your silences and intrerupts

These are small tips that I noticed beginner players disregard whenever I am not tanking in dungeons. These incredibly small things make the difference in any dungeon. You don't need elaborate macros or keybinds(although they help) to tank propertly.

[Cute Chen]

Just to elaborate on using Shockwave too early/often. Showckwave = stunned mobs = no damage taken = not enough rage. Not having rage is way worse than having no threat. I recommend setting your keybind for Cleave nearby Heroic Stike, so you can remember to use HS for single-targets, and Cleave for anything more. Remember to Thunder Clap even on bosses for the debuff.

Here are some macros. Some of them are pretty lame, but the Retaliation macro is very good.

[Cigss]

anyone use LUI v3? wondering how tidyplates : threatplates would integrate with it. either way ill have to figure it out. that is amazingly useful, especially in a 5 man leveling setting.

nobody got any protwar blogs? amazing ones that is?