Fire mages use more than 2 gems with spirit?

[Eschatonin]

Hello, I've recently changed my mage from arcane to fire. I've had notable dps gains, and the spec itself is alot more fun and versatile, so my choice was a good one (In the last ICC25 9/12 pug i was in, I was pulling 12-14k in all fights save Marrow and Lootship. PP was the only end of wing boss we downed).

However, I've seen on players more experienced in fire and on Rawr that just about all blue sockets had been filled with sp/spirit gems to meet socket bonuses. I've been trying to find some definate numbers to support this (before mindlessly making a change), yet it seems that sites like Elitist Jerks have removed their dedicated WotLK fire threads.

I would do an armory post, but before the shutdown I logged off in my PvP set.
Could anyone give me any facts supporting or denying sp/spirit being superior, with what value of socket bonus, and if its limited to gear with blue or red+blue sockets, or is it still superior in red+yellow+blue?

[Alvito]

If you still have 2 of your t9 and buff your molten armor with it equiped Purifieds are they way to go for blue sockets if the socket bonus is 5 or more and the other gem slots are red. There is a thread in the FAQ section here breaking down the math on the socket bonuses and when to or not to break them.

[DirewolfX]

Hmm, the FAQ is a bit out of date. Fire always gems for spell power socket bonuses (I haven't seen many non-SP socket bonuses lately; you'll need to use Rawr for that).

Red: Runed (or Potent/Reckless, depending on stat balance)
Yellow: Potent/Reckless (depending on stat balance--usually Potent)
Blue: Purified

[Alvito]

The only non SP socket bonus on icc caster gear I can think of is the 10 man LDW bracers which are priest bracers and not really something a mage would want unless really hard up for some 251/264 bracers. Besides those there are only a few things with 4 or 5 sp socket bonuses socket matching for the 4 isn't worth it even if its only a 2 or 3 dps difference, but min/maxing comes down to silly small number crunches like that more often then not.

[DirewolfX]

For optimal DPS, a Fire mage should always match sockets with a spell power bonus.

[Volitar]

the cloak from dreamwalker 10 is hit if that counts

[Eschatonin]

Thanks guys. I've done some math concerning it, and without buffs (like kings) or the extra spirit talent, and assuming 1 sp = 1 dps (which it doesn't at higher gear levels, its higher), matching a 7sp socket bonus on a red+blue item gives 1.5 more dps than ignoring it and chucking on sp.

It's an odd concept to get used to after being arcane for so long. I'm on a terrible server (Saurfang US), and it's full of people who blindly try to match every single socket bonus on every piece of gear. So, it wasn't something I would like to do blindly.

[DirewolfX]

Arcane matches on 2 socket items (or 1 socket w/ 2pt9). Fire matches on all items. This assumes a SP bonus. I'm not going to try and make rules for non-SP bonus items--use Rawr.

[Jasper Kazai]

Sorry to hijack a thread, but my question is somewhat related.

I respeced my old Fire build to have TtW (I used to be Frostfire back from 3.0-3.3, then I made the switch to Arcane). However, I still need to be Arcane on fights like Heroic Saurfang and the Lich King to have Slow. So my question is this: should I change around my gems (which right now are suited to Arcane), or should I leave them be? How detrimental will this be to my Fire DPS if I don't switch? Or, conversely, how detrimental will this be to my Arcane DPS if I do change the gems around?
My armory link is in my signature.

[DirewolfX]

Slow is bad mmkay? I'll forgive you if you're in a really bad 10s comp, but there should be no reason to ever spec slow for 25s.

If you must make a hybrid set, do this:

Red: Runed
Yellow: Reckless (haste is not too far behind crit for fire, and sometimes better)
Blue: Purified

You'll never be all that you can be in a spec if you gear halfway, but honestly, if you're not retarded with your gems, your looking at a swing of maybe 2-3 potential DPS per socket at top gear levels.

[Eschatonin]

I find that a rank 1 frostbolt works pretty well. Discovered this for pvp then went on with it for Deathbringer (back in the days of having a little over 3k sp as arcane).
Remember for an arcane spec that uses rank 1 frostbolt for slow effects to put the points needed to get to icy veins in Improved Frostbolt (2 points) instead of Frostbite. Having Beasts get randomly frozen in place can be dangerous (since they will attack the player with the highest threat on them who is in melee range before they get unfrozen).

---------- Post added 2010-09-22 at 02:36 AM ----------

Got armory reset to my pve gear.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...ng&cn=Eschaton

[Deemaxm]

Well Sp+spirit is more usefull for fire mages to get socket bonus since +spirit raises your crit via molten armor so u can consider it a lighter version of Sp+crit gem. Its not so usefull for arcane since arcane isnt a specc based on crit so there it might be beter to loose setbonus in some points.

About Using arcane as offspec for LK especialy is a good choice. Geming in that situation depends on 2 things:
1. How vital is that dps you loose with Sp=Crit Gems instead of Sp+haste
2.How many time u use Arc ass offspec
For example if your working on Lk Hc and that overprio go gem for arcane since for rest of bosses considered Farm stuff u can go with fire and Sp+Haste since its not so bad gemming.Haste is more benefit for fire then crit for arcane.
If u use Arcane specc just to hlp out a bit on certain bosses u can still hold your Sp+crit gems and loose a bit of Dps

OFc best idea is like DirewolfX said to have and Offset for Arcane some guilds started to accept giving items for Offspec to Mages(arc spec or fire)meaning lower GP costs(EPGP system).