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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by DEEPKVTS View Post
    if you've ever looked into the history and actions of the alliance and most of the human nations you'd realize garrosh has the same, if not more, fuel for hatred.
    And what of those actions has Garrosh himself ever personally suffered? While stuff like that was going on, he was either A) Not born yet B) Being a scrub orcling that everyone laughed at, or C) an emo chief who everyone was getting fed up with. Varian, however, saw his father murdered by a half-orc assassin, witnessed his home city burned to the ground by the Horde, and was enslaved by orcs for a time.

    Garrosh's reasons for hating the Alliance is little more than him seeing them as a rival to be swept away so he can claim the glory prize. Chynn? Yeah, I may think he's a douche but he does have good reason to be so upset.

    And I'm sticking up for him? Wonders never cease. 0_o

  2. #62
    Field Marshal Wutlol365's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydin View Post
    ...Garrosh grew up in Outland, with little interaction with the Alliance; the only Alliance presence in Outland were the Sons of Lothar, and they were more concerned with self-preservation than going after the Mag'har. Where as Varian saw his father murdered by an orc as a child, along with his kingdom/people got slaughtered by the orcs in the first war. Then he was abducted by the Defias, and while suffering from amnesia, was used as a gladiatorial slave in the Hordes arenas. So yeah, there's that little problem. Garrosh never left Outland until after TBC when Thrall went to Garadar and told him of what Grom did to free the orcs from the demonic influence.
    Pretty much this.

  3. #63
    Epic! ScorchHellfire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEEPKVTS View Post
    if you've ever looked into the history and actions of the alliance and most of the human nations you'd realize garrosh has the same, if not more, fuel for hatred.
    No... just no... he never even had contact with the Alliance til WotLK... and let's see... the horde invaded azeroth and slaughtered millions on their campaign of destruction from one end of the eastern kingdoms to the other and even today are the ones to start the most conflicts (usually by trying to invade and take more land where the alliance has done a small fraction of the amount of land grabbing and it's usually just the dwarves trying to dig up ruins) and the alliance temporarily imprisoned the remainder of the horde after the second war instead of executing them all like they could have... yeah the alliance totally has done an equal amount of evil to the horde as they have had done to them... oh wait... /facepalm

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Galbrei View Post
    "I am honored, Warchief. But I feel umprepared for the life of a rule"

    ...WUT? Who said that? Seriously not Garrosh! How many times is this dude's personality change gonna before Blizzard decides on one? Will we get some lore background explaining this new one at least?
    Garrosh forgot to take his Lithium (if you don't know what I mean, wiki Lithium)
    Yes, I am an Horde fanboy
    Yes, I am an Alliance fanboy
    No, I'm not gonna miss 50% of the game for some stupid ridiculous faction fight

  5. #65
    The Patient DEEPKVTS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydin View Post
    ...Garrosh grew up in Outland, with little interaction with the Alliance; the only Alliance presence in Outland were the Sons of Lothar, and they were more concerned with self-preservation than going after the Mag'har. Where as Varian saw his father murdered by an orc as a child, along with his kingdom/people got slaughtered by the orcs in the first war. Then he was abducted by the Defias, and while suffering from amnesia, was used as a gladiatorial slave in the Hordes arenas. So yeah, there's that little problem. Garrosh never left Outland until after TBC when Thrall went to Garadar and told him of what Grom did to free the orcs from the demonic influence.
    are you suggesting that one has to directly experience the enslavement and oppression of your race to feel the hatred for it?

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by willjones410 View Post
    Right on everything except for Cairne's reason for challenging Garrosh. He did it because, like Vol'jin, he felt that Garrosh was being a dumbass and decided to try and put an end to it on his own.

    Wasn't it also that the grimtotems have been poisoning cairne for years?

  7. #67
    The Patient DEEPKVTS's Avatar
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    consider how emotions actually work, rather than thinking 'o derp he never directly experienced this in the storyline so it doesn't make sense.'
    people react when they learn things and see the aftermath of things as well.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by DEEPKVTS View Post
    are you suggesting that one has to directly experience the enslavement and oppression of your race to feel the hatred for it?
    He probably uses that an excuse, no doubt, but considering he never had to endure it himself, his reason for hating the Alliance is much weaker than Chynn's reason for hating the Horde.

    Quote Originally Posted by Overtroll View Post
    Wasn't it also that the grimtotems have been poisoning cairne for years?
    Yeah, but what does that have to do with his reason for challenging Garrosh?

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by DEEPKVTS View Post
    are you suggesting that one has to directly experience the enslavement and oppression of your race to feel the hatred for it?
    at least its a good reason instead of just being a badly written plot device for conflict

  10. #70
    The Patient DEEPKVTS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by willjones410 View Post
    He probably uses that an excuse, no doubt, but considering he never had to endure it himself, his reason for hating the Alliance is much weaker than Chynn's reason for hating the Horde.
    i hate to make an extremely obvious comparison to real life here but i'm sure you can piece it together...

  11. #71
    Bloodsail Admiral Zaydin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEEPKVTS View Post
    are you suggesting that one has to directly experience the enslavement and oppression of your race to feel the hatred for it?
    Thrall has more justification to hate humans/the Alliance than Garrosh, since he was raised as a gladiatorial slave in Durnholde Keep. Whereas Garrosh sat on his ass in Garadar, bitching about his fathers legacy and what it meant for him. Thrall put his own hatred aside and is one of the few leaders who overall is trying for peace. Garrosh is being written poorly to appeal to the people who want the Horde to return to the savage, bloodthirsty roots from WC 1, when they weren't as well written and were meant to be the bad guys. Thrall gave the Horde more depth than a puddle; Garroshs behavior is looking to undo that faction evolution to many. Compare the Horde of WC 1 & 2 to the Horde of Warcraft 3; there was some major changes between those games to the Horde so that the Alliance was no longer the overall 'good' faction.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by willjones410 View Post
    He probably uses that an excuse, no doubt, but considering he never had to endure it himself, his reason for hating the Alliance is much weaker than Chynn's reason for hating the Horde.
    The arena thing he had coming for not paying the defias and his dad was killed by a half dreani his hatred doesen't make anymore sense lore wise then garrosh there both crappy retcons.
    "The sky's will rain fire." "The oceans will boil." "The streets will run red with the blood of billions only then when your last pitiful hope is extinguished will I end your life lets go."

  13. #73
    OMG the end of the world! But based on how the trolls leave for the Darkspear Isles, I think Garrosh kicked Vol'jin out. And wasn't it also stated that he did kick Vol'jin out?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bossmonkey View Post
    He doesn't want to go to Northrend. He doesn't have coldweather flying.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydin View Post
    Thrall has more justification to hate humans/the Alliance than Garrosh, since he was raised as a gladiatorial slave in Durnholde Keep. Whereas Garrosh sat on his ass in Garadar, bitching about his fathers legacy and what it meant for him. Thrall put his own hatred aside and is one of the few leaders who overall is trying for peace. Garrosh is being written poorly to appeal to the people who want the Horde to return to the savage, bloodthirsty roots from WC 1, when they weren't as well written and were meant to be the bad guys. Thrall gave the Horde more depth than a puddle; Garroshs behavior is looking to undo that faction evolution to many.
    7 years of plot development gone with 1 badly written plot device

  15. #75
    The Patient DEEPKVTS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaydin View Post
    Thrall has more justification to hate humans/the Alliance than Garrosh, since he was raised as a gladiatorial slave in Durnholde Keep. Whereas Garrosh sat on his ass in Garadar, bitching about his fathers legacy and what it meant for him. Thrall put his own hatred aside and is one of the few leaders who overall is trying for peace. Garrosh is being written poorly to appeal to the people who want the Horde to return to the savage, bloodthirsty roots from WC 1, when they weren't as well written and were meant to be the bad guys. Thrall gave the Horde more depth than a puddle; Garroshs behavior is looking to undo that faction evolution to many.
    it's also meant to counteract the fact that the factions are becoming too chummy, it's world of warcraft, not world of work together for the common good but we sort of dislike eachother craft. also, consider the fact that not everyone is the same, garrosh was raised differently than thrall, had different things happen to him. because of people like taretha and jaina thrall learned alot about humanity and acceptance, garrosh is still a regular orc, one who specifically has become hot headed and lusting for power. just like thrall did, it's no stretch to imagine him having a few situational epiphanies that calm him down.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by DEEPKVTS View Post
    i hate to make an extremely obvious comparison to real life here but i'm sure you can piece it together...
    Please forgive me if I choose not to.

    Also I should point out that the orcs being interned was the far better option than what other people were demanding. Gilneas, Quel'thelas, Stromgarde, and maybe one or two others of the original Alliance quit because they all wanted orc genocide, and Terenas said "No wai", which was a ballsy choice considering what the Horde had just put the humans, dwarves, and elves through during the first and second wars.

    Even Thrall realizes this much.

    Quote Originally Posted by turlyonlost to tirion wtf View Post
    The arena thing he had coming for not paying the defias and his dad was killed by a half dreani his hatred doesen't make anymore sense lore wise then garrosh there both crappy retcons.
    Okay it's time for you to either stop being dumb or log off entirely. Take your pick.

    Basic fact: Varian didn't see a half-draenei kill his father, he saw a half-orc. And he saw his home burned to the ground by orcs.
    Last edited by willjones410; 2010-09-21 at 11:26 PM.

  17. #77
    The Patient DEEPKVTS's Avatar
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    so you're saying 90% of the alliance wanted orc genocide, but 10% didn't, and because of that 10% only wanting to enslave them rather than kill them, he should feel less hatred for the alliance as a whole. righhtttt.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Galbrei View Post
    "I am honored, Warchief. But I feel umprepared for the life of a rule"

    ...WUT? Who said that? Seriously not Garrosh! How many times is this dude's personality change gonna before Blizzard decides on one? Will we get some lore background explaining this new one at least?
    He's just being modest. Once Thrall turns his back, Garrosh kicks out all non Orcs from Orgrimmar and kills Cairne Bloodhoof.
    I certainly hope their is an event prior to Thrall's return where all the Horde leaders gang up on him and squash him like the disgusting insect he has become.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by willjones410 View Post
    Please forgive me if I choose not to.

    Also I should point out that the orcs being interned was the far better option than what other people were demanding. Gilneas, Quel'thelas, Stromgarde, and maybe one or two others of the original Alliance quit because they all wanted orc genocide, and Terenas said "No wai", which was a ballsy choice considering what the Horde had just put the humans, dwarves, and elves through during the first and second wars.

    Even Thrall realizes this much.



    Okay it's time for you to either stop being dumb or log off entirely. Take your pick.

    Basic fact: Varian didn't see a half-draenei kill his father, he saw a half-orc. And he saw his home burned to the ground by orcs.
    Its true it was half drenai half orc and garrosh saw his planet taken over by a half night elf , The hall burning down thing yeah he should be pissed about that part.
    Last edited by turlyonlost to tirion wtf; 2010-09-21 at 11:44 PM.
    "The sky's will rain fire." "The oceans will boil." "The streets will run red with the blood of billions only then when your last pitiful hope is extinguished will I end your life lets go."

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by willjones410 View Post
    Yeah, but what does that have to do with his reason for challenging Garrosh?
    nothing i was talking about the cause of death and maybe losing the duel

    maybe irrelevant but w/e

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