Thrall's Appointment of Garrosh to Warchief

[Winter]

Honestly, i dont see what the massive issue is here with Garrosh. You wont like him at the start of Cata because of his current WotLK persona.

It took Blizz from the start of WotLK, right through Ulduar, TOC and ICC to develop a widespread hate amongst a majority of players for Garrosh. Same thing will be needed for anyone to gain any respect for him.

To put that point into perspective, no one really hated Garrosh during/at the end of BC, simply because he had no story at that point (unless you dislike whiney emorcs ), and even at the start of WotLK he just seemed a little hotheaded. It wasnt until a little later with this interactions with Varian and the schoolyard taunts between the two that we realise Garrosh is a dick. Same goes with Varian, playing primarily from a horde perspective personally, i hated Varian until i read up on him allowing Varok to depart with Dranosh's body in ICC. Massive redemption points for Varian there, all in one act of kindness.

I dont envision a mutual respect between Garrosh and Varian like there appeared to be between Dranosh and Bolvar at the Wrath gate (personally loved that scene).

Have faith in Blizz that, if they dont give us a half decent character, they will at least give us a good story along the way

[willjones410]

so you're saying 90% of the alliance wanted orc genocide, but 10% didn't, and because of that 10% only wanting to enslave them rather than kill them, he should feel less hatred for the alliance as a whole. righhtttt.

It's cute how you keep ignoring the fact that the orcs were interned because they had just nearly won a war of genocide against the people of Azeroth, and thus think they weren't at all justified in wanting to take action to keep them from rising to power again. Interest of self-preservation and all. Terenas was actually a lot wiser in his decision than he knew at the time considering that orcs did, in fact, help save the world from being turned into a demon playground.

Anyway, I'm sure Garrosh ignores those facts too when he uses it as an excuse to hate the Alliance, but that's one of the many things that makes him The Prince of Derp.

Its true it was half drenai half orc and garrosh saw his planet taken over by a half night elf ,

I guess that's one thing that Chynn and Garrosh have in common then? Chynn hates the orcs and thinks that Garona is still part of the Horde, which isn't true (at least not yet). Garrosh hates the Alliance because one night elf took over Outland? And he was too Emo through Burning Crusade to even care about Broken Draenei sacking orc towns in Nagrand but we're suppose to think he hates the Alliance because of Illidan?

....I think we've just hit a new level of silly on this one.

[Shadow0]

Okej, really I am getting fucking sick of the people who compare the Internment Camps with the Nazi Camps, I mean really?

I mean I will state the obvious differences:
Nazi Camps:
Forced to work, mostly, untill death followed.
Poeple where gassed, beaten and hanged.
Ilness and what not plagued them, and rats.
People usually didn't even had a bed or blanket.
The Camps where constructed for the purpose of comitting mass Genocide agains the Jews, Gypsies, Homosexuals and far more people.
You where lucky if you had something to eat for the following 3 days.
Where filled with innocent people, who didn't deserve it.

Alliance camps:
The Orcs had beds, blankets and pillows.
They where given food multiple times a day, they got there own well's.
They where imprisoned instead of outright slaughtered after a campaign that lasted years and cost the live of millions of (Dwarven, Human, Gnomish and Elven) people.
The Camps where constructed as a alternative to mass genocide on another race.
They where not guessed and mostly not beaten (there are ofcourse exceptions, like Thrall, but mostly the Camps had to follow rules and/or regulations).
Orcs where not forced to work (most of the time) due to there ilness, making them unfit for work, there where gladiatorrial amtches, but those where usually by free will (again with a >FEW< exceptions like Blackmoore and Thrall).
The Camps where filled with Orcs wich where on Azeroth for one reason, to destroy Humanity, Dwarves, Gnomes and Elves and take Azeroth as there own.



And about Garrosh, the Alliance Expidition did attack Mag'har Orcs (the few) who where near or in Hellfire, Terroker and the few they encountered in those northern Hills, not seeing any difference between these brown Orcs and the Black and Green ones they have been fighting for years now.
So Garrosh does have a little reason to fight the Alliance, but he does it msotly for honor or that is what I think.

So I will say this:

Varian: Lost everything by Orcs, was alter enslaved and >FORCED< to fight in Arena's as a Gladiator, wether Rexxar Earthfury (? was his name right) let him go on purpose or not is of no consequence, he >FORCED< Varian to fight, this along with the fact that his father was murdered by a Assassin who >LOOKED MORE< like a Orc then Draenei pushed him over the etch, allthough it is shown in comics he can get along quite well with Thrall and his former master, but when Garrosh says something he goes into a frenzy.

Garrosh: encountered, in force then, the Alliance for the first time when he went to Northrend, when the Alliance was making progress into Icecrown with a Army and 3 Huge Siege ENginer, Garrosh attacked the Alliance forced from behind, trapping them between the Horde assault and the Scourge Assault, giving the Scourge a free army in the progress (those Abo's had to come from soemwhere, same with the skeletals).
Oke I will admit he heard all about the Alliance from other Orcs, but really msot Orcs want to see the Alliance wiped of the face of Azeroth, claiming it as there own.
Few points I read where his planet was taken over by a Night Elf, well that night Elf (while still looking like a NElf) was actually actively bieng hunted by the Alliance, I don't see the Horde actively hunting the Dark Horde or trying to make up for there past deeds (alltho it is in there culture to not to), and also the Broken Draenei where also Draenei who where horribly mutated by Fel magick used by the >ORCS< and (shocking) they where also survivors of genocide on there species by the >ORCS<

PS. this is all how I see it ofcourse, or what little bit I know of lore, feel free to correct me or flame me w/e

[DEEPKVTS]

ahhh, i see now that there is no point in arguing validity of lore characters with someone who uses contextual events as a means to justify his faction fanboyism. if it's a reason for the alliance to hate the horde it makes perfect sense, if it's a reason for the horde to hate the alliance 'it's just plain silly' right?

[pigziggy]

Suck it haters! Garrosh pwns
Different feelings are not different personalities, Garrosh feels different things in different situations and thats all there is to it.
Hail the new Warchief!

[PlatedPriest]

i am sad that sylvanas and cairne wasnt there....


edit: oh yea an that lothamer guy

[willjones410]

ahhh, i see now that there is no point in arguing validity of lore characters with someone who uses contextual events as a means to justify his faction fanboyism. if it's a reason for the alliance to hate the horde it makes perfect sense, if it's a reason for the horde to hate the alliance 'it's just plain silly' right?

Your argument fails. It isn't the Horde that's hating the Alliance for putting them all in internment camps, it's Garrosh and a number of younger orc warriors who are derp like he is. The people who hated them for that have gotten over it years ago or are now dead. I know this because the orcs are basically of two factions now. The older veterans who prefer Thrall's methods of warchief and would prefer peace. Then there are the younger warriors who are more loyal to Garrosh and want some war.

EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFhqBtTp8_Y

Who, of these two sides, guys like Saurfang I might add, do you think endured the internment camps more? Funny how they don't seem to hate the Alliance because of that and take responsibility for the actions of what they did in the first and second wars. What's the excuse of the younger generation orc warriors then? What they went through was negligable compared to the vets, but at least they had more to do with it than Garrosh.

So, whatever "validity" you are trying to make by arguing that Garrosh hates the Alliance because of them being interned amounts to a fart in the open wind.

Quite frankly I don't think Garrosh really gives a rat's ass about the camps at all. What he cares about is that Alliance is a rival faction, an enemy to be crushed, and means for him to get some war hero glory.

Heh. Calling me of all people an Alliance fanboy? The irony of it is ridonkulous. 0_o

PS: If there is any valid reason for the Horde to hate the Alliance, it can be found in South Barrens and what the humans out of Theramore are doing to the tauren. I'm just going to say those fuckers are going to pay for what they did to Camp Taurajo, and I'll enjoy stuffing their eye sockets with fire.

[Haven]

Warchief has left, all hail the Warchief.

[mistuhbull]

how quickly this degraded into a Varain v. Garrosh fanboy thread.

The only issue with Garrosh's character progression is the fact that WoW expansions do time jumps. We never see the two years or so of maturation between Warsong Hold and becoming Warchief, all we see is a couple isolated incidents involving Varian (whom Garrosh clearly hates) and then, BOOM, cataclysm and Garrosh is a matured Warchief.

Lore-wise the last time before the PTR we see Garrosh interact with ANYONE is 1 year or so (I am assuming game timeline=RL timeline) before he is made Warchief

[morlem]

i think garrosh has multiple personalty disorder

[gunner_recall]

of course there will be voiceacting, just it was only just put on ptr, pretty much everything on the beta went a while without voiceacting.

Plus it's really just Chris Metzen.

[Cowpunch]

Mega win.

I'm glad Garrosh has half a brain.

[willjones410]

how quickly this degraded into a Varain v. Garrosh fanboy thread.

I'd rather call it a "Lore facts and common sense vs. blatant idiocy" thread, but call it what you want. I might like Garrosh more than I like Chynn but thinking that Garrosh has more valid reason to hate the Alliance than Chynn has to hate the Horde is a sign of a mental condition.

[Myrsky]

Really nice find, cheers for sharing.

It's hardly a shift in personality. The Warchief of the Horde means more than just an Overlord leading soldiers, it means keeping every single member of the Horde safe and secure while ensuring steady supplies, protection of territory, diplomacy with other races and neutral factions, etc. He was willing to kick the shite out of Wrynn and prove his worth as a "leader", but this is a task a little above that :P

My vote is on he can kick the shit out of Varian. And I wish to watch him do it.


Also: This is the biggest Loregasm I've ever had since Thrall meeting with his Grandmother in Nagrand.

[Aisriyth]

There, since many of you wouldn't have taken a look at the thread, this is why Garrosh's personality Changes.

This over and over again. A lot of people need to keep in mind the time frames between the changes as well.

i think garrosh has multiple personalty disorder

Garrosh could be bipolar but definitely is not suffering from dissociative identity disorder.

[Terrax of the Wind]

Inconsistent writing is inconsistent. As has been said, Blizzard can't seem to decide how they want Garrosh to act. First he's an emo git in Nagrand/TBC, then a bloodthirsty hot head in Northrend/Wrath, and now he's still bloodthirsty, but slightly more level headed in Cataclysm.

Nothing really inconsistent here, if anything its what a lot of normal people go thru. You can take for example an emo kid in highschool (BC), then he goes and enlist in the Marines and gets all hotheaded with a 'get some!' Atittude (WotLK), he does his four years and gets out and he's a lot more mature than the other kids his age (Cata).

[ScorchHellfire]

so you're saying 90% of the alliance wanted orc genocide, but 10% didn't, and because of that 10% only wanting to enslave them rather than kill them, he should feel less hatred for the alliance as a whole. righhtttt.

Um in the case of the old horde it wouldn't have been genocide, it would have been justice... just fyi...

[Phenomina]

Interesting conversation. However Garrosh's actions seem to speak volumes more then his words

It's refreshing to see willjones as an Alliance fanboy.. or at least being accused as one

[ScorchHellfire]

ahhh, i see now that there is no point in arguing validity of lore characters with someone who uses contextual events as a means to justify his faction fanboyism. if it's a reason for the alliance to hate the horde it makes perfect sense, if it's a reason for the horde to hate the alliance 'it's just plain silly' right?

No its not silly... its just a lot less of a reason considering the horde has caused 1000x more pain and suffering to the races of the alliance than the alliance has caused to them so... yeah... pretty much every race of the alliance except for maybe gnomes has suffered huge casualities to orcs at some point... yes the draenei and nelfs were not part of the alliance at the time but that doesnt really matter... and the fact that cenarius cooperates with the people that killed him years before is ridiculous as is the red dragons cooperating with the horde after they beg the dragonmaw to join them... if it weren't for the game needing to be balance and blizzard loving the horde so much they would have a lot less territory and a lot more enemies...

[willjones410]

Interesting conversation. However Garrosh's actions seem to speak volumes more then his words

It's refreshing to see willjones as an Alliance fanboy.. or at least being accused as one

It felt like someone was trying to divide by zero. 0_O

No its not silly... its just a lot less of a reason considering the horde has caused 1000x more pain and suffering to the races of the alliance than the alliance has caused to them so... yeah... pretty much every race of the alliance except for maybe gnomes has suffered huge casualities to orcs at some point... yes the draenei and nelfs were not part of the alliance at the time but that doesnt really matter... and the fact that cenarius cooperates with the people that killed him years before is ridiculous as is the red dragons cooperating with the horde after they beg the dragonmaw to join them... if it weren't for the game needing to be balance and blizzard loving the horde so much they would have a lot less territory and a lot more enemies...

Here's a tip. Spend less time trying to project your own ideals and thoughts onto demigods and dragon queens. To think that they would hold an entire race responsible for the crimes of a select few individuals is fucking retarded. Especially since the actual perpatrators of those crimes are all dead, and what we have now are their descendents.

Or I suppose you're one of those individuals who think that the son should have to pay for the sins of the father? :P