Reverberation

[Callidus984]

Is one second really enough to spend 2 talent points?

It just seems lackluster to me and a poor allocation of 2 talent points.

What do you think?

[Archimand]

in fights with high movment yes more instants on stand still fights not so much

also keep in mind if you take chain lightning glyph that make it hit 5 targets each hit has 60% to give you mana back and generate lightning shield charge so you will get to 9 stacks really quickly with adds
so yes then its actually good investment

[Izuria]

What exactly are you talking about here? Enhancement, elemental or just shamans in general?

Either way it doesn't matter I suppose, because there will be moments in the elemental rotation where you'll have to use Flame shock or Earth shock (whichever does most damage) at the same time, and by reducing that cooldown you increase your DPS. For enhancement it's also an increase as shocks are a significant addition to their dps.

[Baabinator]

For pvp Yes

For pve no.

Explanation: More interrupts in PvP setting, more re-applications of Flame Shocks vs dispellers
Explanation 2: Normal is 10 shocks per minute, with that it's 12 shocks per minute - hardly worth it.

[Deleted]

i think we'll miss booming echoes, certainly for pvp. not as much for pve as we'll be using earth shock more. ill probly put points in it at first and see how it goes. like Baab said essential for pvp tho.

[2box]

For pvp Yes

For pve no.

Explanation: More interrupts in PvP setting, more re-applications of Flame Shocks vs dispellers
Explanation 2: Normal is 10 shocks per minute, with that it's 12 shocks per minute - hardly worth it.

I can't help but feel you're over simplifying this in terms of pve. Sure, in one minute it isn't much but in 5 mins that's 6 mins worth, just saying...

[Deleted]

Not tried, but IMO reverberation as elemental is useful.
High haste geared elemental will have troubles with fulmination and FS dot maintaining.

About enhancement... is yet to see how useful it can be, but defo must in pvp.

[Hothgor]

Wasn't worth it with 5 points. Will be worth it for 2 points, especially with the new system of cooldowns we have. Without the talent, you juggle a 6, 8, 10 and 15 second cooldowns. With the talent you juggle a 5, 8, 10 and 15 second cooldowns. Notice how 3 of them are multiples of 5. Build your rotation accordingly.

[Kagdar]

I can't help but feel you're over simplifying this in terms of pve. Sure, in one minute it isn't much but in 5 mins that's 6 mins worth, just saying...

Yea, 56 shocks in 5 min vs 50 shocks in 5 mins. Remember tho that you are not spamming your shocks everytime it's ready.
You will shock if FS is down AND if you got 9 stacks of LS as an elemental, so not every CD. You don't shock between those times it is a dps loss, i think since numbers are not balanced yet. Will have to check how much stacks of LS+ES does more dmg than LB.

For enh is might be worth it, but you still got a lot of other abilities to check. At least you won't be GCD locked, so you might have time to get some more ES in the rotation.

[Lylz]

For Enhance PvE, I'm pretty sure it will be more worthwhile taking 2 points in Reverb than any other possible talents, with the last couple of points.

[LyskaWF]

For Enhance PvE, I'm pretty sure it will be more worthwhile taking 2 points in Reverb than any other possible talents, with the last couple of points.

Based on what?

[Hothgor]

Based on what?

Based on the fact that your ONLY choice of DPS talents left at that point is 2 points into Reverb or 2 points into Elemental Precision. 2% spell damage, which with the removal of FT proc damaging attacks comprises only 6.5% for ES, 6.5% for FS, 4% for SS and 13% for LB (Thats 30%) of our damage, a 2% boost to that results in only 0.6% more dp. A reduction in the cooldown for ES and FS results in a 1.5% overall dps increase ON THE METERS for each.

[Dillybear]

in movement heavy fights it actually will be better to cast ES even if its below 9 stacks while running. if even just to dump the stacks, because like another person said those 9 charges really add up fast and dumping 5 on the move is when you have nthing else to do is beter then saving them for later when you have 9, but could be casting some other spell.

[TecPontificates]

I don't even necessarily care if Reverberation increases my damage or not. I would still take it even if I could get the same (marginal) damage boost putting those 2 points anywhere else because it also reduces Wind Shear's cooldown, and spell interrupts are one of the biggest utilities I bring to the raid, particularly 10 man groups. I suspect if interrupts will be more critical in Cataclysm as well since it functionally reduces damage which functionally reduces healer mana consumption. I've salivated over a 5 second Wind Shear throughout 3.0 and I'm stoked I'm finally going to get it in my stock build in 4.0.

[Taalyn]

For Elemental PvE it is necessary for heavy add fights, i.e. heavy chain lightning use. I stood at the target dummies and hit chain lightning every time it was off cooldown and without Reverberation I would hit 9 stacks before Earth Shock came off cooldown. For fights with little to no chain lightning use, you will still need it but the times where your Flame Shock DoT is about to fall as you gain your 9 stack don't occur often.

Pre-Cataclysm you wont need the talent for much since you can roll a single FS forever with Lava Surge and 4p T10. At 85, you will likely need it for every fight.

[LyskaWF]

Based on the fact that your ONLY choice of DPS talents left at that point is 2 points into Reverb or 2 points into Elemental Precision. 2% spell damage, which with the removal of FT proc damaging attacks comprises only 6.5% for ES, 6.5% for FS, 4% for SS and 13% for LB (Thats 30%) of our damage, a 2% boost to that results in only 0.6% more dp. A reduction in the cooldown for ES and FS results in a 1.5% overall dps increase ON THE METERS for each.

So based on a possible bug and untweaked and unbuffed numbers? What meters are you using for this?

[nazrakin]

Its basically ~16% increase in shock damage, and now that our rotation is *much* looser, you'll have plenty time to take advantage of the -1 second. I'd take it over call of flame or Imp Shields.

---------- Post added 2010-09-22 at 11:59 PM ----------

Based on the fact that your ONLY choice of DPS talents left at that point is 2 points into Reverb or 2 points into Elemental Precision. 2% spell damage, which with the removal of FT proc damaging attacks comprises only 6.5% for ES, 6.5% for FS, 4% for SS and 13% for LB (Thats 30%) of our damage, a 2% boost to that results in only 0.6% more dp. A reduction in the cooldown for ES and FS results in a 1.5% overall dps increase ON THE METERS for each.

Is the FT weapon thing confirmed? The tooltip still says it adds damage, could just be broken like recall and various other spells have been over beta.

[killzwitch]

It's a good spendature of points imo, in testing 9 stacks comes v v v v fast with CL, and on single target it can go very fast due to RNG, in addtion - the reduction to our Interrupt is also a massive plus for PvE and PvP. However on the majority of single target boss fights you will not benefit from the points most of the time (DPS wise)

It is not game breaking to put points somewhere else - I like that...alot.

[Baabinator]

Its basically ~16% increase in shock damage, and now that our rotation is *much* looser, you'll have plenty time to take advantage of the -1 second. I'd take it over call of flame or Imp Shields.

I would much rather have Shields that deal 15% more damage.

Fulmination takes great, GREAT power from that.

And so does Static Shock for Enhancement

[Hothgor]

So based on a possible bug and untweaked and unbuffed numbers? What meters are you using for this?

There is no amount of tweaking and bug fixing that could make Elemental Precision a worthwhile talent point for Enhancers. Even if the FT change isn't a bug, it still wouldn't be worth it. That would raise our spell damage to about 37.5%, but lets just say 40% to make it nice and easy. 2% more of 40% results in a 0.8% dps increase. Reverb results in a 1.5% increase PER POINT. We'd need to do 150% spell damage to balance it out for enhancers. The math is indisputable...

I would much rather have Shields that deal 15% more damage.

Fulmination takes great, GREAT power from that.

And so does Static Shock for Enhancement

Imp Shields is worth it for Elemental and Restoration because they get next to no benefit in a raiding environment from Focused Strikes. No Enhancer worth his totems would be caught dead with Imp Shields. Static Shock does about 4% of our damage, making that talent worth an additional 0.6% dps, or 0.2% per talent point. There are far better things to do, such as increasing our shock contribution by 1.5% each than waste it in Imp Shields.