Did i read this wrong????

[Ciege]

Even many of the so called cookie cutter builds today are honest about those talents that are a toss up. Picking talent A over talent B may be a theoretical dps benefit in the sims or even for the author of the cookie cutter build, but that doesn't mean it will work for you. I have deviated from these sacred builds often on my own characters because I found that I don't rely on certain abilities or mechanics as much as the build assumes I should. Now maybe my dps (healing, etc.) would improve if I could manage to do that, but in the interim using a build that is bad for me just because it's the anointed one doesn't make sense. A- dps with the "bad" build is superior to C+ dps with the "good" build.

What im getting from this is: i would rather be sub-par and good at it, than improving my own skills. Seriously? A blue post saying, "it's ok, be bad. We will make sure there is something that your minimal level skills can comprehend."

[Taziri]

Yes, you did read it wrong. This isn't about any gameplay decisions. This is about the CM's view of the game. Even though some players are skilled, they're not chosen for raids or PvP because they don't have a certain talent build, which may only be a theoretical DPS increase over their chosen build. And the CM wishes the game weren't like that.

[Deleted]

What he's saying is that a rotation and style of play that comes natural to someone will result in higher DPS than something you can't wrap your mind around, but is supposed to be the best possible spec.

[Xeraxis]

What im getting from this is: i would rather be sub-par and good at it, than improving my own skills. Seriously? A blue post saying, "it's ok, be bad. We will make sure there is something that your minimal level skills can comprehend."

You're reading it wrong.

Picking talent A over talent B may be a theoretical dps benefit in the sims or even for the author of the cookie cutter build, but that doesn't mean it will work for you.

This is why it's called theory crafting. Best possible DPS under the absolute best possible conditions.

I have deviated from these sacred builds often on my own characters because I found that I don't rely on certain abilities or mechanics as much as the build assumes I should.

Poster is stating that under the best situation haste may be best but in his experience you have to move to often and crit may outweigh it. --- That's just a possible explanation.

Now maybe my dps (healing, etc.) would improve if I could manage to do that, but in the interim using a build that is bad for me just because it's the anointed one doesn't make sense.

If he could change the mechanics of the fight the sim would be right but he can't because of outside forces. The mechanics, lag, having to use other abilities (stuns, interrupts, dispels) caused him to deviate from the so called perfect situation.

A- dps with the "bad" build is superior to C+ dps with the "good" build.

A dps with the "wrong" build that outperforms a dps with the "correct" build is superior.

[h4rr0d]

What he's saying is that a rotation and style of play that comes natural to someone will result in higher DPS than something you can't wrap your mind around, but is supposed to be the best possible spec.

QTF
This was especially true with DKs in start of the xpac. All 3 specs were doing comparable DPS, everyone claimed his spec was best, but in the end all it came down was personal preference and how did particular players feel comfortably with their build.

Edit: Xeraxis you are interpreting it incorrectly. The poster from quote doesn't speak about external conditions (like movement heavy fight and whatnot) but rather about personal playstyle.

eg: Perfect example from cata is Unholy tree and Runic corruption (RC) talent - random runes don't regenerate instantly but rather all runes regenerate faster for short ammounts of time.
I'm going to throw some wild numbers here so don't bash me for them. Theorycraft says: If you drop RC, you save up a talent point that can be put in here. Along with the rune refreshing this spec is providing superior dps compared to spec with RC. A player is not content with the randomness of the nonRC spec, because he doesn't like playing casino style and maybe even has high lag which hurts reactive gameplay.
If such player could play with his spec top notch, he'd be outperforming players with the _best possible_ build who aren't able to take the advantage of their build because they have poor reaction time.
Once again, this is only an example and is NOT based on any actual research.

[Xeraxis]

Xeraxis you are interpreting it incorrectly. The poster from quote doesn't speak about external conditions (like movement heavy fight and whatnot) but rather about personal playstyle.

He doesn't state external conditions but the fact is those can affect a players playstyle. I'm not discrediting your example in fact I agree that it is another excellent example.

[Odexy]

By this logic, wouldn't the better player do better dps by using the correct "go-to" spec?

Actually, wouldn't the player be USING said go-to spec?

[talitu]

yes you read that wrong, thats nothing like what he said

[Torne]

All GC said was that when you are a retard, you will still suck no matter if your spec is "perfect" or not.
When you know how to play, even not having the "perfect" build will make you top meters.

Example:
A feral is supposed to spec feral charge, because its a DPS increase in every fight where you have to move out.
Bad players will skill it because they looked up the spec on some page, but they will most likely be to stupid to use it on every possibility, thus makin this "right" talent choice irrelevant for them.

A good player will be able to move quickly and dps hard even if he didn´t spec feral charge. (this example is a bit weird because charge is only a 1 point talent and its so incredibly good, so there is no reason not to pick it, but i guess you get the picture)

[Gilian]

Theorycrafters are not stupid and know that every fight is different. Sometimes some spec is a little bit better than the other spec on certain fights. Doesn't mean that a spec that is good on only 2 of the 12 fights will gain you more dps overall.

He can say "A- dps with the "bad" build is superior to C+ dps with the "good" build." but the guy with A- dps would have had A+ dps with the "good" build.
A bad player will always have lower dps than a good player obviously. The only time a "bad" build can increase dps is when a bad player uses a "bad" build that results in an easier rotation the bad player can handle (can't handle the "good" build because it is too hard for him). Like, for example, a warlock speccing destruction because it is easy to play instead of affliction which does more dps if played right.

Still if someone specs a "bad" build just because he can't handle the "good" build he/she is still a bad player.


I would not care about a 1% dps gain or loss in a random group. I would invite a destruction lock in my raid eventhough affliction is a 1% dps gain, for example. 1% dps gains are only important when you are progressing on very hard content with your guild.
And seriously, who inspects everyone in a pug to look if he/she misplaced 2 talentpoints?

[Deleted]

QTF
This was especially true with DKs in start of the xpac. All 3 specs were doing comparable DPS, everyone claimed his spec was best, but in the end all it came down was personal preference and how did particular players feel comfortably with their build.

Wrong. Dual-wield Frost-Unholy with HB was superior.

[quras]

What he's saying is that a rotation and style of play that comes natural to someone will result in higher DPS than something you can't wrap your mind around, but is supposed to be the best possible spec.

I hope for the raids sake that same person spent a little time with the "Best possible spec" and worked on it till it was second nature.

Being a well informed raider combined with the "Best possible spec" should allow for a better overall raid performance.

There are some factors in game that can be controlled by its raiders. Spec is one of them and knowing your rotation / Priority is another. As a raid leader, I expect raiders to know at least the best spec and priority for what tree their playing and that choice is limited to an extent(kinda like raiding BM hunter this expansion - It just shouldn't ever happen in this expansion if your actually trying to progress)

You cant control a person lag, or their reaction time or any of the so called subpar things that might make a player bad. What you can has some say so in however is what you see. How they GEM and how they spec. Many decisions can be made off that alone.

Kinda like, if the icing on the cake looks like shit. Thats not going to be the first item you choose off the dessert bar. Is it possible to regret that decision later? Sure, but this is a game so the overall downside is pretty much Nil. It's a PUG - you'll get over it.

When it comes to a PUG. Best to have your ducks in a row. I'll take that theoretical DPS increase over someone who has a poor spec, gemmed wrong and yet says, "HEY I'm the best player on the server with a 100ping and 60 FPS." any day.

One you can work with and the other is just an "I hope their telling the truth."

And seriously, who inspects everyone in a pug to look if he/she misplaced 2 talentpoints?

Long before gearscore and I mean a long time, this happened more than most people realize. If your spec was off-kilter. You got benched. The concept is not something new.

[Gilian]

Long before gearscore and I mean a long time, this happened more than most people realize. If your spec was off-kilter. You got benched. The concept is not something new.

So if someone put 2 points into a pvp talent instead of a pve talent you kicked them? That's what they call an elitist jerk (I don't mean that you are but...).

Some people are just weird.