Protector of the Innocent

[jenseits]

So there's a brand new talent in T1 holy


Would this make Selfless healer anymore tempting to ret? I'm thinking that's the intent because they nerfed it. I personally, while like the new change, don't want to pick this up on the sheer principle that it doesn't belong in the damn tree, and don't want to encourage this.



Then again if it really truly proves to be that useful i won't have much choice, even i can't be that stubborn

[Talen]

So there's a brand new talent in T1 holy


Would this make Selfless healer anymore tempting to ret? I'm thinking that's the intent because they nerfed it. I personally, while like the new change, don't want to pick this up on the sheer principle that it doesn't belong in the damn tree, and don't want to encourage this.

Can't see why it would make SH more valuable. The issue with survivability won't be helped by this. And the cost of SH will likely still remain too high to be viable for ret in any role other than a support class.

At least its in the Holy tree. The last thing you need are more healing talents in the other trees.,

EJL

[PalliesThrowStuff]

Can't see why it would make SH more valuable. The issue with survivability won't be helped by this. And the cost of SH will likely still remain too high to be viable for ret in any role other than a support class.

At least its in the Holy tree. The last thing you need are more healing talents in the other trees.,

EJL

I think part of the idea here is that we cast WoG on ourselves in PvP, combined with this, it's not... terrible. We can also use it to buzz a teammate, and get a damage bonus. Keeping the damage bonus up isn't viable, I don't think, TV is probably more than 10% of our DPS over 10 seconds.

[Talen]

I think part of the idea here is that we cast WoG on ourselves in PvP, combined with this, it's not... terrible. We can also use it to buzz a teammate, and get a damage bonus. Keeping the damage bonus up isn't viable, I don't think, TV is probably more than 10% of our DPS over 10 seconds.

It doesn't matter about PvP.

The question is still whether or not WoG is worth losing a TV, even in PvP. And even with these changes, the answer still appears to be no, it isn't. You don't get a "damage bonus" from it either. You get a damage increase which is intended to PARTIALLY offset the loss of the TV. WoG will only be worth using if the survivability/help it offers...which is low...is worth the loss of pressure on your target.

And if WoG isn't worth using, then SH becomes an empty, worthless talent. We'll see for sure when the numbers pass is finished though.

EJL

[dan.tabris]

Word of Glory is hitting for significantly more for Ret after the recent patch. Click for larger version:


I'm pretty sure it will be worthwhile to use in PvP. And keep in mind that in an emergency you can still FoL yourself, especially if you break LoS first. It's a pretty fast cast and heals for a decent amount. Mana shouldn't be much of a consideration unless you run yourself completely dry while Divine Plea is on cooldown, because the mana use of our core rotation is basically negligible now (the blue bar tends to stay at 90%+).

Long Arm of the Law's sprint is now physical, and thus undispellable. And with the Pursuit of Justice proccing HP from being snared/stunned/feared, if we are being kited at least we can heal ourselves. Ret is quickly approaching a balanced state, even in PvP.

[Talen]

Word of Glory is hitting for significantly more for Ret after the recent patch.

Is that baseline or with the effect of added talents such as PotI?

I'm pretty sure it will be worthwhile to use in PvP.

As I said...worthwhile if its worth the loss of pressure on the target.

EJL

[dan.tabris]

Is that baseline or with the effect of added talents such as PotI?

Completely baseline; that's a PvE build.

As I said...worthwhile if its worth the loss of pressure on the target.

Survival > keeping up pressure.

[Astray]

Protector of the Innocent - stupid noob aura +damage taken away~ YAY

[PalliesThrowStuff]

It doesn't matter about PvP.

Uh-huh? And yet you go on to say...

The question is still whether or not WoG is worth losing a TV, even in PvP. And even with these changes, the answer still appears to be no, it isn't.

Let's not jump to conclusions just yet...

You don't get a "damage bonus" from it either. You get a damage increase

I'm not sure what distinction you're trying to make there, but I'm not getting it.

Selfless Healer provides a 10% damage increase, or bonus, whichever you want to call it.

This, as you say, is to provide some -compensation- for the loss of a TV. Factoring in PotI, you're also marginally healing yourself. These effects are both designed to make the trade more appealing, you lose damage, but gain survivability, and in the instance of healing someone else, the damage loss is decreased by around 1/4, assuming you can get in at least 3 CS and 1 TV during the 10 seconds, which is to say you're not getting any procs, and not even doing filler attacks, so you've lost 75% of a TV, to gain a self heal (Which may be of a reasonable amount, given how the talents multiple ranks play out) and a solid, instant one on a nearby friendly, or you lose 100% for the same self heal, plus the same solid amount on yourself.

We basically just got a talent to make WoG more appealing to use, and you're shooting it down a bit early in my opinion. Saving your life, or someone else's life, regardless of whether it's a raid or in PvP, is well and easily above the worth of a single attack, even if it's 25k.

[Alenko]

this talent will be very much worth it for pvp, not pve though

PvP spec: http://wowtal.com/#k=_CMuldt4.a21.paladin

I mean even right now on live there are arena games and fights in BGs where I don't even exo at all and instead just spam my 1 button (FoL). same trade off we see here (well not to the same degree but same principle).