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  1. #1

    If you're against dispersion, whats your reason for it?

    Hot potato atm in shadowpriest.com is dispersion as 31pt talent. There are arguments like "Why we don't have Vampiric Touch as 31pt talent" like arcane got AP moved there, that would be more iconic. "It's useless in PvE, if you play good you don't have any uses for it". "Why we have evocation as 31pt talent?". "If you use it for mana you can't use it for damage reduction". "Why can't we have +%damage talent like Hunger for Blood as 31pt instead?"

    Me myself find it pretty usefull when raids are still on progressmode. It's usually possible to time the use to gain mana and prevent some damage at the same time, saving healers some mana and gcd's. There are oh-shit uses, I have even got some firstkills just becouse dispersion gave few more seconds to kill the boss. It was useful on hc anub kiting, saph blocks etc. Granted thats really situational use, but it's all EXTRA included to already strong talentpoint. Progression is all that matters for PvE part, 31pt talent shouldn't be focused "for the time when you have everything at farm".

    All in all, I love to have 31pt talent that encourages creative use of the skill, planning when to use it and why. I don't really want hunger for blood type talent as must have pve talent, ask rogues why if you don't know.


    So in this thread, tell why you're against it. Give civilized opinions why you don't like it. Convince me with clear and sound arguments why it would be better to remove dispersion and get new talent instead.
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  2. #2
    Field Marshal
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    I also think that having a Defensive CD ( that grants mana ) as a 31pt talent is actually good, I use it very often on Icc to save healer's mana, to avoid unecessary damage. Yes, it would be nice to have a +% damage buff but i think the one we have is pretty good as well

  3. #3
    you know, if you need to use it to protect yourself, live a couple of seconds till boss dies, etc. then your raid sux
    dispersion is good as emergency button, but if you use it frequently then something is going not as intended. its good for sp in "1% wipe-or-not" guilds but for those who dont have such problems dispersion is almost useless.
    as for 31-point: the main problem is that we dare to think about taking it or not. blizzard policy is that we have to take 31 and the fact that we think take it or not is already good reason to do something with it
    btw its a good skill-o-meter =) casuals often think that dispersion is very usefull and pretty skilled sp think its almost worthless
    Last edited by Wogga; 2010-09-24 at 12:29 PM.

  4. #4
    Nobody is forced to put talent into Dispersion. Point can be used on something else if you feel it's useless. Shadow Priest DPS is balanced around having non-damage 31 point talent so I don't see problem having it.

  5. #5
    The main problem with Dispersion is not what it does, moreso of where it is. As a 31 point, the one thing that stares at you and says "You must take this!", it's a little on the weak side psychologically. Elemental Shaman are saying the same thing about theirs (crying about it louder, and saying theirs is the only one that doesn't give a damage bonus on a boss... lulz), and Retribution's isn't as awesome as one would think.

    The opinions on Dispersion would change if it switched Vampiric Touch places in the tree, where your bottom "Class Defining" and "Must Have" talent is one that "feels" like it belongs in the spec, potentially its most powerful. But I personally would hate to wait that much longer to get it.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Wogga View Post
    its good for sp in "1% wipe-or-not" guilds
    You missed the part where i talked about 1% realm first kills You know, suddenly shit hits the fan as usual but still somehow ppl manage to get the kill.
    "any type of person converting RL money into WoW is retarded by default." - Choppers
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  7. #7
    The Patient DEEPKVTS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wogga View Post
    you know, if you need to use it to protect yourself, live a couple of seconds till boss dies, etc. then your raid sux
    dispersion is good as emergency button, but if you use it frequently then something is going not as intended. its good for sp in "1% wipe-or-not" guilds but for those who dont have such problems dispersion is almost useless.
    as for 31-point: the main problem is that we dare to think about taking it or not. blizzard policy is that we have to take 31 and the fact that we think take it or not is already good reason to do something with it
    btw its a good skill-o-meter =) casuals often think that dispersion is very usefull and pretty skilled sp think its almost worthless
    someone's obviously never done any hard mode progression.

  8. #8
    They could ofc just switch tiers in the tree, but you have to get the 31st anyway to get points in the other trees!

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Wogga View Post
    you know, if you need to use it to protect yourself, live a couple of seconds till boss dies, etc. then your raid sux
    This is not true at all. Dispersion is a great tool for circumventing encounter mechanics ie. not having to move for spores on Festergut, stacking Instability from Unchained Magic as high as you like on Sindragosa to name a few.

    It's also useful for times of huge raid damage, Bloodbolt Whirl from BQL, Ooze explosion (yes I know it's avoidable) on Rotface.

    The final thing, and perhaps this is the most important, is that Shadow is balanced around this talent. The damage is fine even though Shadow doesn't have a 31 point damage cooldown. In cata there will be 2 pseudo CDs to use in Shadowfiend and Archangel, and there is no need for another another. And certainly not for another spell to fit into the rotation.

    So yeah, be happy with Dispersion, it's a handy tool in a Shadow Priest's arsenal.
    Last edited by Flaubertlives; 2010-09-24 at 12:39 PM. Reason: Mild loss of sanity

  10. #10
    I think a lot of the complaining is from some spriests thinking they gan get a shiny new 31pt talents instead and keep dispersion as well.

  11. #11
    Dreadlord
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    I agree with Kelesti that it's a great talent, it just doesn't really seem like it really belongs as a 31-point talent because it's primarily a defensive cooldown (though can be used to increase DPS in some cases by circumventing encounter mechanics). Either way, it's been there for a couple years already, it's not going anywhere, and it's not forced on you if you'd rather spend the point elsewhere. So I really don't understand all the complaints about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flaubertlives View Post
    This is not true at all. Dispersion is a great tool for circumventing encounter mechanics ie. not having to move for spores on Festergut, stacking Instability from Unchained Magic as high as you like on Sindragosa to name a few.

    It's also useful for times of huge raid damage, Bloodbolt Whirl from BQL, Ooze explosion (yes I know it's avoidable) on Rotface.
    ...and if you mess up Blistering Cold or Frost bombs, or for holding Unbound Plague a little longer, or if RNG forces you to move a lot on Princes. And if you want older content, it's nice for Twins, Faction Champions, Algalon's Big Bang, etc.

  12. #12
    Blademaster EebzProtwar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wogga View Post
    you know, if you need to use it to protect yourself, live a couple of seconds till boss dies, etc. then your raid sux...
    Because WotLK Raids = Cata Raids? I think not. Being a retarded DPS that just nukes through everything with complete tunnel vision is sadly what everybody sees as the norm these days.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wogga View Post
    btw its a good skill-o-meter =) casuals often think that dispersion is very usefull and pretty skilled sp think its almost worthless
    So you must be 'skilled'. I really suggest you consider the playstyle of cataclysm before you go off calling people baddies. From my perspective... your 'meter' is skewed.

  13. #13
    Pandaren Monk Kilpi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Condemner View Post
    They could ofc just switch tiers in the tree, but you have to get the 31st anyway to get points in the other trees!
    No you don't. You just need to put 31 points in the tree. Doesn't matter where you put them.

  14. #14
    Shall we?

    Repost from shadowpriest.com and also official beta forums.

    If I talk just for myself, I think Dispersion is good ability in PvP. It has it's uses. Therefore I don't want to see the spell revamped, because it might upset a lot of arena players.
    I don't have (huge) problem with the talent itself, but what makes me unhappy is that in my eyes, the Dispersion isn't good enough to be 31-point talent. PvPers like it, PvErs not that much. If it gets moved next to Psychic Horror and new 31-point talent is created a) PvP players won't be unsettled because the spell stays the same b) us, not liking Dispersion will be happy.

    If we look back at the origin of Dispersion, it was created as a solution for Shadow Priests being GCD'd back in TBC. Pyro + PoM pyro. We all know. In the first iteration, it was without the shadow damage buff (it was also restoring 36% of max hp). It had it for one patch (never implemented IIRC) and gone soon afterwards. After that, ignoring some minor tweaks, the spell has stayed as it has been designed. Therefore this legacy can be felt in the spell. And when we talk about such lucrative and special place as 31-point talent, we automatically expect the talent or mechanic to be good for both PvE and PvP.
    And there is the problem, I personally feel that I could raid without Dispersion for the rest of WotLK and don't even notice the difference. Which is bad. Looking at my average raiding weekend (my guild has only LK HC left) I use Dispersion 3 times. 3. Three. Festergut for big bad AoE, Sindragosa if I get late for running away and when I run through frost vents after killing Saurfang. I could very well manage my raiding time without Dispersion. It isn't attracting spell for PvE.


    Why I think it isn't good pinnacle talent? Where should I start (disclaimer, I'm certainly going to repeat some thought I've mentioned before. Don't read it if you don't want to. You have been warned .)

    1) It does too many things at once.
    Every time you hit the spell, you get both mana regen and damage reduction. But very often you need just one thing at the time. You either need mana or you want to survive the whatever_big_hit_is_coming. If I'm at situation where I need mana, I logically use Dispersion in order to get some. But I also waste my damage reduction which I would need somewhere in the future. Therefore I don't hit the spell, for "what if" reasons.

    2) It doesn't create "yeah!" feeling when used for mana reasons.
    Let's face it, we like doing damage, watching those yellow number pop up. So we also feel very unhappy, when we have to intentionally silence ourselves (loosing theoretical damage done) in order to receive mana. As 31-point talent, it doesn't create positive emotion when used, opposed to for example Metamorphosis, but rather makes us feel "I wish those 6 seconds were over already so I could restore doing my job".

    3) Dispersion isn't lucrative talent enough for leveling Priests.
    If I were leveling Fury Warrior, I would be tearing myself apart just for getting to the level where I would receive Titan's Grip. As soon as I put talent point in Titan's Grip, I instantly feel like a better Warrior. Same thing can be said about Chaos Bolt, Haunt, Bladestorm, Wild Growth, ect. But Dispersion doesn't make the leveling Priest feel any better Shadow Priest than he was one level before.

    4) The talent doesn't have clear benefit in PvE.
    It restores mana, which is something we have plenty (unless we have to constantly multi DoT). It reduces damage taken for 6 seconds which is very situational and last time the ability had any real impact on encounter was during Algalon progress. While any other 31-point talent is used almost every cooldown (with great result), ours feels rusty, without clear purpose or use. There will be no encounter requiring us using Dispersion for damage mitigation reasons in the future, this era is over. I've been raiding since BWL and with all my experience, I honestly don't see how one point in Dispersion could be benefical for me in Player vs. Environment.

    5) Dispersion doesn't reward PvE players for having talent point in it.
    If you ask 2 Cataclysm Arcane mages, one with Arcane Power and one without, to dps a boss, after the kill, you will instantly notice which one doesn't have Arcane Power talent. This is something that cannot be said about Dispersion.

    6) Dispersion doesn't make the difference when used in PvE.
    Compared to Unholy DK's Summon Gargoyle, you can almost instantly see the difference when used. In this case more dps. If we use Dispersion to survive a boss hit, something horrible is already going on and Dispersion most likely won't save it (it does, in one guild on one server once a year, first kill tanked by Shadow Priest, but meh). This concern is linked with nr. 2.

    7) Dispersion's functionality doesn't go in line with what the Shadow tree does.
    We deal damage and we leech mana and life from others. Over time with shadows. Because Dispersion is the most expensive talent in the tree (it needs 30 points), we expect the talent to enhance and improve what we do. This can be said about every single other 31-point talent in the game. Except ours. When I invest 30 points in the tree, I expect the final talent to be real badass (Titan's Grip once again). Dispersion doesn't fulfill that feeling. Almost every single Protection Warrior would throw away their Shockwave and pick our Dispersion. Which is quite strange considering we deal damage and they are tanks.


    Summed up, Dispersion doesn't have clear purpose nor does bring any significant benefit for raiding Shadow Priest. Which can most likely be considered a bad attribute for 31-point talent. Talent that requires 30 other points in the tree. The talent itself is fine for PvP, but lacks in PvE. 31-point talents should fit in both roles, being lucrative all the time. Dispersion doesn't satisfy those needs, therefore isn't good final talent in our tree.
    Which is worse, ignorance or apathy? Who knows? Who cares?
    I hope shadowfiend will still be able to do damage in 3.1., it's my second "nuke" button next to Inner Focus!

    Leap of faith:
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  15. #15
    The talent is amazing for a number of reasons.

    - Regenerates mana
    - Removes all snare effects
    - Makes us immune to snare effects
    - Let's us survive boss mechanics that would otherwise kill us (AKA Pungent Blight)
    - Combined with the glyph, it gives us a 1.25 minute defensive mana regen cooldown.

    Anyone who argues that this should NOT be a shadow priest exclusive talent

    ... is....


    DUMB

    80 Kingslayer Shadow Priest - Spirestone
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...e&n=Direshadow

  16. #16
    What would you want in it's place then?

    When it boils down to it, there are 3 other options.
    1) A damage cooldown - already have Archangel and Fiend, do you really want another one we're balanced around?
    2) An active ability to fit into our rotation - we have a fairly complex, yet smooth and interesting rotation currently, would you want to add something to that to potentially make it awkward and clumsy?
    3) A passive dps boost - á la Hunger for Blood - this is interesting? No, besides, Blizzard don't like that kind of thing.

    So, pray tell, what would you like? I'm all ears.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Direshadow View Post
    The talent is amazing for a number of reasons.

    - Regenerates mana
    - Removes all snare effects
    - Makes us immune to snare effects
    - Let's us survive boss mechanics that would otherwise kill us (AKA Pungent Blight)
    - Combined with the glyph, it gives us a 1.25 minute defensive mana regen cooldown.

    Anyone who argues that this should NOT be a shadow priest exclusive talent

    ... is....


    DUMB
    You are missing the point, you are missing the point, you are missing the point and mostly, YOU ARE MISSING THE FREAKING POINT! (I do apologize for caps)

    The discussion is about how bad 31-point talent Dispersion is, not how good talent it is by its own. So please next time you rush in a topic, take your time and read before posting. It saves dignity :-).

    Dispersion is reasonably designed talent.
    Dispersion is poorly designed 31-point talent.

    Do you see THE difference?
    Which is worse, ignorance or apathy? Who knows? Who cares?
    I hope shadowfiend will still be able to do damage in 3.1., it's my second "nuke" button next to Inner Focus!

    Leap of faith:
    Good news everyone, we can now heal stupidity!
    http://armory.wow-europe.com/charact...l&cn=Brokolice

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Direshadow View Post
    The talent is amazing for a number of reasons.

    - Regenerates mana
    - Removes all snare effects
    - Makes us immune to snare effects
    - Let's us survive boss mechanics that would otherwise kill us (AKA Pungent Blight)
    - Combined with the glyph, it gives us a 1.25 minute defensive mana regen cooldown.

    Anyone who argues that this should NOT be a shadow priest exclusive talent

    ... is....


    DUMB
    Nobody is against it, but it shouldn't be are 31 point talent. I believe in a blue post a few months ago stated they want 31 point talents to focus more on single target damage. Well... here we are... still with dispersion at 31 point talent.

    As stated before dispersion is good but its not worthy of being are 31 point talent.
    Pokemon FC: 4425-2708-3610

  19. #19
    New glyph of dispersion. After coming out of dispersion you gain 30% crit for 6 seconds

    fixt

    If any signature artists would like to help me improve this one shoot me a pm.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaubertlives View Post
    What would you want in it's place then?

    When it boils down to it, there are 3 other options.
    1) A damage cooldown - already have Archangel and Fiend, do you really want another one we're balanced around?
    2) An active ability to fit into our rotation - we have a fairly complex, yet smooth and interesting rotation currently, would you want to add something to that to potentially make it awkward and clumsy?
    3) A passive dps boost - á la Hunger for Blood - this is interesting? No, besides, Blizzard don't like that kind of thing.

    So, pray tell, what would you like? I'm all ears.
    Nobody asked to get a flat out % increase to are damage with a new 31 point talent. We are saying dispersion SHOULDN'T be are 31 point talent. VT would make more sense. Archangel is not something we are suppose to be using on cool down like shadow fiend, it was designed more to use it when target switching or when we need burst on an add.

    ---------- Post added 2010-09-24 at 03:08 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by chunx0r View Post
    New glyph of dispersion. After coming out of dispersion you gain 30% crit for 6 seconds

    fixt
    hardly
    Pokemon FC: 4425-2708-3610

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