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  1. #21
    Archangel and evangelism work together as a damage and mana regen boost respectively. This argument would be valid if we weren't getting a damage CD, but we are so... yea.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Devanox View Post
    Archangel and evangelism work together as a damage and mana regen boost respectively. This argument would be valid if we weren't getting a damage CD, but we are so... yea.
    http://blue.mmo-champion.com/t/26723...ck-build-12942

    Dark Archangel is intended to be used when you want to swap from your main target, or want to put up some burst. Evangelism is intended to take some time to build up for Shadow. Dark Archangel isn’t intended to enhance rotationary gameplay, it is more of a timer. The chance to proc is per tick of Mind Flay, so you have 3 chances per cast.

    For mana, you can use Shadow Wordeath with Masochism, Shadowfiend or Dispersion. There is some DPS loss with doing some of those, but this is something we’re trying to design into all mana DPS classes. A Mage will have to Evocate, a Warlock will have to Lifetap and perhaps Drain Life etc. For leveling the new “Glyph of Spirit Tap” gives you mana when you kill with Shadow Word: Death.

    We're going to increase the cooldown of Dark Archangel. Here are the scenarios where we intend you to use Dark Archangel: A) After you kill a mob while leveling where you stacked Evangelism, pop Dark Archangel before going to a new mob. B) You’re DPSing the boss, then a new creature spawns that must be killed quickly. Use Dark Archangel, swap to the target for a DPS boost. C) The raid is about to pop Bloodlust, use Dark Archangel right before. Mind Spike is probably your best spell to be used with Dark Archangel.
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  3. #23
    i play a priest myself, but hes disc/holy. However, one of my best friends is a shadow priest, and we raid a lot together (since were in the same guild). I see him pop dispersion on several occasion, and at some points, it actually increases his damage! Let me give an example:

    Festergut, pungent blight. He doesnt have to pick up a single spore, since he can pop dispersion every time. This enables him to stand still the entire fight, making him do his max damage. Only thing he has to do, is pop dispersion, which locks him out of dps for a short time. But he gains dps, since his rotation doesnt break 3 times, whereas pungent blight breaks it 1 time (due to dispersion). He also gets enough mana back here, for the remaining fight. That is awesome indeed?

    Another example? Rotface. Got the disease? dispersion! you have to run anyways, and casting dots only lowers your dmg (while it wont in cata, it does in wotlk). He also doesnt take much dmg from the disease itself, which saves some time for the healers. Win!

    These are probably the best examples i can give, where both effects are used. Others are marrowgar's bonestorm, sindy's blistering cold, etc.

    Why would it be VT then? if i recall, you get VT around lvl 40 or 50 atm (i think) and making it any later, will not be good for the lvling priests. besides, apart from lvling, who cares where each talent are? you get them both anyways...

  4. #24
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    Suggestions to put VT as the 31 point talent is just dumb. Let's try a hypothetical for a moment and say that VT and Dispersion switched places and ignore some of the inconsistencies it causes with other talents. As a level 85 Shadow Priest, does it make any difference? No. You have both talents with or without them switched, and if you don't want Dispersion, you can still skip it in either case. Now let's imagine you're leveling a Shadow Priest, you can get VT now at 39, but if they were switched you'd have to wait until 69. So, if they were switched, you may have a more iconic talent in the 31-point slot, but now you've just nerfed your ability to level for 30 levels, and for absolutely zero gain at max level.

    Yes, I'll agree that it isn't iconic like GS or, hopefully, PW:B is, but so what? Only the very worst PVE players want it gone, and if you realize that moving it around in the tree when you're going to take it anyway doesn't make a bit of difference in end game and nerfs your leveling, you ought to realize that the 31-point slot is, in fact, the very best place for it to be.

    TLDR: Quit the whining about Dispersion. You're objectively wrong, it's not going to change. Just give it up.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeuq View Post
    Suggestions to put VT as the 31 point talent is just dumb. Let's try a hypothetical for a moment and say that VT and Dispersion switched places and ignore some of the inconsistencies it causes with other talents. As a level 85 Shadow Priest, does it make any difference? No. You have both talents with or without them switched, and if you don't want Dispersion, you can still skip it in either case. Now let's imagine you're leveling a Shadow Priest, you can get VT now at 39, but if they were switched you'd have to wait until 69. So, if they were switched, you may have a more iconic talent in the 31-point slot, but now you've just nerfed your ability to level for 30 levels, and for absolutely zero gain at max level.

    Yes, I'll agree that it isn't iconic like GS or, hopefully, PW:B is, but so what? Only the very worst PVE players want it gone, and if you realize that moving it around in the tree when you're going to take it anyway doesn't make a bit of difference in end game and nerfs your leveling, you ought to realize that the 31-point slot is, in fact, the very best place for it to be.

    TLDR: Quit the whining about Dispersion. You're objectively wrong, it's not going to change. Just give it up.
    ??? who suggested VT to be 31 point talent? I think it was just pointed at it would be better suited as a 31 point talent over dispersion because it has to deal with damage. However making VT 31 point talent would be dreadful. And the only way blizzard will get feedback is if we post and discuss it so yes "whining about dispersion" will change it.

    P.s. nobody is whining, it's the forums we talk about wow and specific talents. Debate =/= whining.
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  6. #26
    In general, I think most people on this topic would be satisfied if almost anything in the tree were swapped with dispersion. However, we really have very little in the way of 1 talent abilities that really fit there to begin with. I've read many suggestions for multi-talent point skill to go there but those people generally fail to understand that putting a useful 2 point talent means they now MUST spend 32 points in the shadow tree.

    Most of this entire arguement is shadowpriests QQ'ing for what seems to be an overall cosmetic change. (I'll still spend a point in dispersion, I just want to spend it earlier in the tree, and spend a point on something else later)

    Also, most people that argue that Dispersion is utterly useless tend to base that argument on content they've been farming with a 20%+ buff for 4 months. If you can manage to convince your raid to run through ICC with the buff turned off, I think you'll use dispersion quite a bit more.

    Its common sense as you overgear content that defensive abilities become useless.

    Either that, or generally by their own argument, the naysayers are just saying they and/or their own raid sucks.


    Personally, I still think making noise about the HORRID scaling of mastery is far more important. That and the optimal rotation in Beta now requires MB, MS, and SW: D to be juggled within it makes the 'rotation' extremely clunky.
    Last edited by Blackmorgrim; 2010-09-24 at 04:02 PM.
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  7. #27
    Mechagnome dabros's Avatar
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    it's fine

  8. #28
    The problem is all your other talented moves are fixed in place by dependancies. The only other one I can see easily moveable and 'worthy' of being a 31-point talent is Shadowform. And you're going to argue that is going to nerf you while levelling terribly. So when priests say that dispersion isn't a good 31-point talent, they're saying that they want a brand new move to replace it (like mindflay that is red and makes bigger numbers!) But I see lots of people here agreeing that Dispersion is a great talent and you don't want to lose it.

    Dispersion is a great talent. It has uses in PvE bosses and for a single talent point it is worth taking always. If it isn't worthy of being a end-point talent, it can only be swapped with another talent learned move in your tree. If you move another talent in your tree, your levelling experience will suffer because of it.

    Anyone saying that Dispersion shouldn't be the end point talent please also include your solution, because I think the talent point is already in the optimum position.

    Quote Originally Posted by dabros View Post
    it's fine

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    We are saying dispersion SHOULDN'T be are 31 point talent. VT would make more sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    ??? who suggested VT to be 31 point talent? I think it was just pointed at it would be better suited as a 31 point talent over dispersion because it has to deal with damage. However making VT 31 point talent would be dreadful.
    You say this, and then don't answer my question. What would you like as a 31 point talent? You have provided no viable options. Dispersion is there as it provides something that, without it, Shadow needs. Personally, I can't think of anything more useful to go there.

    And as people have said moving VT or Shadowform would benefit us in no way, and just gimp leveling players. Your only argument is the semantics that Dispersion is not befitting of the prestige that a 31 point talent should hold. My point is that there is nothing more that we would want, so Dispersion is ideal - who cares what place it has in the talent tree - at end game you get them all anyway.

  10. #30
    I'm still guessing that Blizzard has plans for dispersion going forward. We might be focusing on Cataclysm now, but they of course already have plans from probably the next two expansions going on as well. I'm guessing you'll see dispersion as a requirement for the next end tree talent.
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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Wogga View Post
    casuals often think that dispersion is very usefull and pretty skilled sp think its almost worthless
    I guess I'm a casual, then. Casual and 11/12 25H ICC, yep.

    It's got countless uses, like other people have pointed out.

    Dispersion = Bad because it's not a +DPS talent? I'd rather take an awesome emergency button over another +DPS talent. This seems to be one of the most common arguments against Dispersion, that it's bad because it's not a DPS increasing spell. Think of something like Sindragosa (norm) or Festergut. It's a DPS increase there because on Sindragosa you can ignore Unchained Magic (on normal) and for Festergut, you can ignore the spores, making it so you don't have to move all around.

    And it's not useful just for PvE, either. It's almost as good as a pally bubble in PvP, as your "Oh shit I'm getting focused/burned" button.
    Last edited by Vook; 2010-09-24 at 04:54 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Precursor View Post
    "Fall of therzane....." ....um what? if that woman fell , god help us it will be the second cataclysm
    Words that lots of people don't seem to know the definition of:
    "Troll", "Rehash", "Casual", "Dead", "Dying", "Exploit".

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeuq View Post
    it's not forced on you if you'd rather spend the point elsewhere. So I really don't understand all the com
    I think this is the key point that bothers some people. In cataclysm it is forced upon you, and apparently some PVE'ers would rather do without.

  13. #33
    Stacking Unchained Magic on sindra normal to 25-30+ is fun

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Vook View Post
    I guess I'm a casual, then. Casual and 11/12 25H ICC, yep.

    It's got countless uses, like other people have pointed out.

    Dispersion = Bad because it's not a +DPS talent? I'd rather take an awesome emergency button over another +DPS talent. This seems to be one of the most common arguments against Dispersion, that it's bad because it's not a DPS increasing spell. Think of something like Sindragosa (norm) or Festergut. It's a DPS increase there because on Sindragosa you can ignore Unchained Magic (on normal) and for Festergut, you can ignore the spores, making it so you don't have to move all around.

    And it's not useful just for PvE, either. It's almost as good as a pally bubble in PvP, as your "Oh shit I'm getting focused/burned" button.
    We get to save some dps at least with the new shadow apparitions, since we can move while dispersioned.

    The only thing I wish they'd add for dispersion pvp wise, is just making us immune to all CC except maybe polymorph (polymorph would become like our Mass Dispel for pally bubbles) for those 6 seconds.

    As it is now, dispersion basically says, ok, stun him, now let all your cooldowns come up and let him have it would it ends.

    I still think it makes no sense that as a gas cloud, I can be hit on the back of the head and knocked out, blinded, be charged by a warrior (Wouldn't he charge through me?)... etc.
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  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Wogga View Post
    btw its a good skill-o-meter =) casuals often think that dispersion is very usefull and pretty skilled sp think its almost worthless
    Totally. All of the skilled shadow priests know its a mere "casual" move to increase your dps by not having to get spores on fester, etc.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmorgrim View Post
    I still think it makes no sense that as a gas cloud, I can be hit on the back of the head and knocked out, blinded, be charged by a warrior (Wouldn't he charge through me?)... etc.
    It's a game, it inherently has alot of give in it's ideas/skills/abilities. It does NOT need to make perfect logical sense. You have things like Tauren being equally as strong as a Gnome, it's a game, this does not matter. It is not bound by the laws of Physics.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmorgrim View Post
    We get to save some dps at least with the new shadow apparitions, since we can move while dispersioned.

    The only thing I wish they'd add for dispersion pvp wise, is just making us immune to all CC except maybe polymorph (polymorph would become like our Mass Dispel for pally bubbles) for those 6 seconds.

    As it is now, dispersion basically says, ok, stun him, now let all your cooldowns come up and let him have it would it ends.

    I still think it makes no sense that as a gas cloud, I can be hit on the back of the head and knocked out, blinded, be charged by a warrior (Wouldn't he charge through me?)... etc.
    I don't mind the stun part, unless its a wiz cleave team that needs to hold you in the open. Now getting cycloned while dispersed, that pisses the hell out of me .

  18. #38
    Herald of the Titans Tuvok's Avatar
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    Because as a dpser, every talent that doesn't imrpove DPS directly is a waste of points, and sucks.

    I'm sorry, but it is useful for PvE, if you can't see why, then you've got bigger problems than dispersion being your 31-pointer. Being a good player doesn't stop unavoidable raid AoE damage, and unless you take amphetamines and ritalin at the same time while raiding, along with being superman, then you will make mistakes and an escape button is always nice to have.

    (Would you rather you didn't get vampiric touch until way later in your levelling?)
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  19. #39
    They are not 31-point talents because they are the most powerful talents. They are the 31-point talents because it is an exclusive skill to a shadow priest.

    Would at make any difference whatsoever (except balancing levelling wise, which blizzard don't care about) if, say, dispersion and vampiric touch swapped places?

    The answer is no, so whats the fucking problem.

    Shadow Priest Main
    Originally Posted by Zarhym
    Your post is so drenched in frustration and sarcasm that it's really ruining my salad.

  20. #40
    I've been playing Shadow since TBC. I've been in the hardcore raid scene and I've been in the reasonably serious PvP scene. I think Dispersion of fine. Sooooooo what if they do switch talent points around. Switch Dispersion for Vampiric Embrace? They'll probably design it so that you have to spec in to dispersion in order to get Vampiric Embrace. And also, people seem not to realize that you don't HAVE to spec into the 31 point talent... You just have to put 31 points in to your primary tree before you can choose another tree. But what would you put that spare point into? my theoretical PvE Shadow spec takes Psychic Horror just because I already have a spare point, even when taking Dispersion.

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