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  1. #41
    The Patient Thrayne's Avatar
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    I orginally agreed with the OP a few months ago, but after thinking logically it is simply amazing. Ofc it isn't a +dmg talent but do we really need it? We don't need a CD now we have a new spell and dps mode (DAA+Mindspike).

    Mana was never a problem for me so I used it exclusively for the damage reduction 99% of the time. It allowed you to ignore ALOT of one shot boss talents especially in ICC and on a 1.25 minute CD glyphed it is the best survival cooldown in the game.

    The whine about it being casual vs hardcore is moot, while casuals will use it to "be bad" an advantage is an advantage. When there is progression in the mix survival is key learning new deadly mechanics and some times 6 secs of living can be a kill.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Wogga View Post
    you know, if you need to use it to protect yourself, live a couple of seconds till boss dies, etc. then your raid sux
    dispersion is good as emergency button, but if you use it frequently then something is going not as intended. its good for sp in "1% wipe-or-not" guilds but for those who dont have such problems dispersion is almost useless.
    as for 31-point: the main problem is that we dare to think about taking it or not. blizzard policy is that we have to take 31 and the fact that we think take it or not is already good reason to do something with it
    btw its a good skill-o-meter =) casuals often think that dispersion is very usefull and pretty skilled sp think its almost worthless
    So you never, ever progress run? I'd dare say Paragon have had some 1-5% wipes in ICC hc.

    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    Possibly, but you're the one calling a man a unicorn because he's got a cone taped to his head.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    ??? who suggested VT to be 31 point talent? I think it was just pointed at it would be better suited as a 31 point talent over dispersion because it has to deal with damage. However making VT 31 point talent would be dreadful. And the only way blizzard will get feedback is if we post and discuss it so yes "whining about dispersion" will change it.
    I said it because it was a suggestion in a post upthread.

    P.s. nobody is whining, it's the forums we talk about wow and specific talents. Debate =/= whining.
    If you want to debate an issue, you first need to identifying the problem, articulate why it's a problem, and follow that with some solutions. So far, the only way anyone can identify it as a problem is that it's not a DPS increasing talent. No one has been able to suggest why it's a problem though because, plenty of other DPS trees have defensive abilities in them, it just comes back to being that people don't want a defensive ability in that particular slot. But that's not articulating why it's problem because no one is suggesting that it should go away and no one is forced to take it. There's some silliness here about how the 31 point talent has to be iconic, but that's not true of a lot of trees, including Shadow, which I would say the defining talent is Shadowform.

    So all that's going on whenever this topic comes up is people either complaining that it's a bad talent, and being told why it's not or that they don't have to take it, or complaining that it's in a bad spot, but are taking it anyway. So it all boils down to some subjective reason that Blizzard has explicitly said isn't part of their design criteria, replacing or removing it are both objectively bad solutions to this "problem" and no one has a better idea about how to "fix" this supposed problem, and Blizzard isn't going to change it. In short, there is objectively no problem, and there's no debate, as such, these complaints are the epitome of whining

  4. #44
    Dispersion in Cataclysm sucks as the 31 pointer for the following reason:

    You need it for mana reg.

    So you cannot get the 90% damage reduction in most occasions. Have fun with Evocation as your final talent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrayne
    Mana was never a problem for me so I used it exclusively for the damage reduction 99% of the time. It allowed you to ignore ALOT of one shot boss talents especially in ICC and on a 1.25 minute CD glyphed it is the best survival cooldown in the game.
    I'm glad to inform you mana now is a problem at 85. So do you still like it(as the 31 point talent) if you have to use it for mana and cannot save it for those boss abilities?
    Last edited by Kaesebrezen; 2010-09-24 at 07:35 PM.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by dekadron View Post
    I think this is the key point that bothers some people. In cataclysm it is forced upon you, and apparently some PVE'ers would rather do without.
    Nope, no it isn't.

    As stated before, you need 31 points anywhere in the tree, not the 31-point talent.

  6. #46
    Bloodsail Admiral Tychus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wogga View Post
    you know, if you need to use it to protect yourself, live a couple of seconds till boss dies, etc. then your raid sux
    This sort of mindset is a symptom of the problem Blizz is trying to fix. Players pay no real heed to what their doing and tunnel-vision their lag-corrected swing/cast/etc timers & mash buttons. And it's feasible because healers have infinite mana and and bomb heals with wild abandon.

    In Cata you'll actually have to get your lazy ass out of the fire. > (Already I feel sorry for the future abuse priests will suffer... "zomg nublet l2lifegrip meh outta firez").

  7. #47
    Stood in the Fire voodoohoodoo's Avatar
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    nothing against dispersion really
    i love it

    it just pisses me of that i have a dps cd in tier 2 disc and not as 31 in shadow

  8. #48
    "Dispersion" is a must for PVP. I can see your point, but there is more to the game than standing around, blowing CDs and killing raid bosses. If you really want to cry about something - cry about "Leap of Faith." That's a lot more useless than "dispersion."

  9. #49
    If it was changed into some sort of dps talent, every other dps talent would just be made weaker.

    [11:50:45] Earthmender Duarn says: Shamanistic healing is a complex art. You can't just chain heal all day.

  10. #50
    High Overlord Kiora's Avatar
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    I really like Dispersion but it still feels weird to be one of the few DPS trees in the entire game where the 31 pointer doesn't really change your DPS mechanics and playstyle outside of a few exceptions like Sindragosa and Festergut.

  11. #51
    does it honestly fucking matter where the talent is in the talent tree, apart for lvling



    seriously does it?

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Harb View Post
    You are missing the point, you are missing the point, you are missing the point and mostly, YOU ARE MISSING THE FREAKING POINT! (I do apologize for caps)

    The discussion is about how bad 31-point talent Dispersion is, not how good talent it is by its own. So please next time you rush in a topic, take your time and read before posting. It saves dignity :-).

    Dispersion is reasonably designed talent.
    Dispersion is poorly designed 31-point talent.

    Do you see THE difference?

    So YOUR point is, you don't like the way the talent tree LOOKS... because, frankly I don't care if the 31 talent point is "Magical Cookies: Summon a cookie that makes people think you're evil and full of dark wrath, causes status effect: grumpy". It makes no difference, people don't look at you tree and go "Oh you poor sod, my 31 point talent boosted my dps by 10% and I sucked until I got it!" Yah, sorry, my DPS is awesome either way. Now excuse me as I go and become the sole reason my guild defeats HLK pre-buff by dispersing and blowing up vile spirits.

    Forgive me if I don't care about looks, all I care about is current progression, raid synergy and having as many amazing things as possible to allow my guild to get server firsts.

    *Thinks about it*

    Wait no, I'm wrong. I like being a rare class that knows what it's doing. So let's just go and move shadowform to the 31-point talent so no one in their right mind will level a shadow priest due to constant /facedesks. It'll result in a lot more healing priests! (Yay - because I'd NEVER do that) And people will still be struck by awe when someone actually manages to level and play a shadow priest successfully. I mean, who cares about lowbies anyways. /scoffs

    Yes Blizzard, please make this change, instead of like... ya know, working on how crappy mastery scales with gear or things that will actually effect us endgame.


  13. #53
    I tryed saying this before but I think my post got lost. The easy way to fix this would to be swap Physcic Horror and Disp. position and give Horror the Deep freeze treatment.

    Physcic Horror
    Blah blah blah(same as it is now). In additon if the target is permenently immune to both Disarm and fear effects, the you deal x shadow damage(about 70% of mind blast) plus y shadow damage over 45 seconds(y is about 200% of Shadow work: pains damage). If used this way Physcic horror has a 45 second cooldown.

    This way you can still get Disp if you want(and you should do just that) but don't have the feeling of being "forced into it". Meanwhile it is still a great pvp talent(its PyH come on it screws pretty much everyone up) while being useful as a single target dps spell that isnt so much in your rotation as just a moderate cooldown you use once every 45 seconds(which every spreist can find time to do). So while this would in no way be all rainbows an unicorns... its a pretty good(and easy) fix to the "problem". But tbh I like disp as it is.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Nobody is against it, but it shouldn't be are 31 point talent. I believe in a blue post a few months ago stated they want 31 point talents to focus more on single target damage. Well... here we are... still with dispersion at 31 point talent.

    As stated before dispersion is good but its not worthy of being are 31 point talent.
    Agreed, I play shaman main, sp for pvp. I like the pvp aspect of Dis, but for Pve, it lacks. (same with Earthquake, I feel the pain of a 31 pt. talent gone to waste, aoe a boss? noty). I think it'd be naughty to have your spells hit a bit harder while Dis imo, so your dps wont lack while dis, you get a def c/d, and you get mana.


    Quote Originally Posted by Donttakevurge View Post
    I've ran into far more stupid players.

    OP, you'll never win in an argument with trolls/idiots/ret paladins/etc. etc. The best you can ever do is ignore it, or leave the group
    lol, ret paladins

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Tychus View Post
    This sort of mindset is a symptom of the problem Blizz is trying to fix. Players pay no real heed to what their doing and tunnel-vision their lag-corrected swing/cast/etc timers & mash buttons. And it's feasible because healers have infinite mana and and bomb heals with wild abandon.

    In Cata you'll actually have to get your lazy ass out of the fire. > (Already I feel sorry for the future abuse priests will suffer... "zomg nublet l2lifegrip meh outta firez").
    I LOL'd so much at this. Soooooo nail-on-the-head with that.

    Now on-topic: I don't think Dispersion should be a 31 point talent. Here's my reasoning:

    With the new talent trees I think they have accomplished a lot of what they intended but alas there are some unintended side effects. Getting to the 31 point mark should be like condiments for your sandwich/sub or what have you. Yummy I like ketchup on my burger. Joey doesn't like ketchup, he's more of the mustard and pickle kind of guy. Jon's kinda gross he likes all of those and hot peppers. My point being? They wanted to give us our own little flavor with the ability to push out comparable numbers as one another. And they seem to have (somewhat) done that. Where does dispersion come in? I REALLY don't think that's an end-tier talent. Shadowform is much more of a 31 point talent than dispersion imho, it defines us as being a shadow priest.

    There is a LOT of things they could be doing for 31 point talent in shadow, PW: Barrier is a GREAT example of something defining for Disc spec. For myself, picking dispersion, JUST BECAUSE it's the end of the tree ability (which I agree on both sides, can be extremely useful, and almost completely unneeded.. making it very situational) isn't really fair. I should be able to have it if I feel the need for the current raid content, but not really have it as my shadow CD that makes me distinct from other specs/classes.

    Not sure if this will make sense to everyone, but I know some people will know what I am saying.
    Quote Originally Posted by Komie View Post
    They still say Cata needs a lot of work, and this expansion (edit for reference: MoP) is in the final stages.
    Quoted for... truth? on 11/30/2011.

  16. #56
    Having read nothig but the first page (sorry!), I have but one thing to say:

    Ice Barrier would like a word with you. Deep freeze for the first 90% of it's existance would like another word with you. Yes, I am a mage.

    Alright, I lied. I'm going to say more than just that. I'll remove deep freeze from discussion because a) it's been fixed and b) when it wasn't for pve frost was god awful in raids anyway.

    31 point talents are by no means designed to be useful to both your primary role in raids and your primary role in pvp. Is a frost mage's role to waste a GCD using ice barrier? Is yours to waste time sitting in dispersion? I didn't think so. That doesn't make them useless 31 point talents. They are both -very- powerful tools that are very useful for raids. Situational maybe, but still useful. Progression is all about situational advantages, honestly.

    Mages struggled with pre-nerf Freya+3 due to the ridiculously large amounts of burst you could receive in fractions of a second. We didn't have that "situational survivability" that our frost tree had. Raiding isn't all about damage. Dispersion is incredibly useful for a ton of things in raiding, just as Ice Barrier is. No mage in their right mind would think of skipping Ice Barrier. If you want to use the argument that it has a shorter CD, go for it, and I'll just tell you that Ice Block would be just as desirable as a 31 point talent as either of these other two spells.

    You can use the "well if you raid perfectly, you don't need survivability talents" and I will say you are correct. I'll also tell you that nobody raids "perfectly" (it is in quotes for a reason) until content is well into the farming stage.

    As long as your spec does competitive dps and is interesting, who really cares if your 31 point talent is the thing that makes it so? If you have 30 interesting talents in your tree, but the one not so shiny one is your 31 pt, is it that big of a deal? Dispersion is a great spell. It is not a new spell for your rotation, but does that make it bad? Certainly not.

    Anyone who skips dispersion is doing it wrong. "ohshit" moment spells are invaluable for progression raiding, and that applies to every class.

  17. #57
    The Patient Thrayne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaesebrezen View Post
    I'm glad to inform you mana now is a problem at 85. So do you still like it(as the 31 point talent) if you have to use it for mana and cannot save it for those boss abilities?
    Although I am not in beta I fail to see how a Sf on almost 2 min CD+Machoism+(evang+AA)+replen+dispersion can still leave spriests with mana problems.

    In all of my reading I haven't seen anyone say mana being an issue at all at 85, in fact if you look at some machoism dicussion, SW;D gives you all the mana you need.

  18. #58
    Stood in the Fire Sharpopiev2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chunx0r View Post
    New glyph of dispersion. After coming out of dispersion you gain 30% crit for 6 seconds

    fixt
    Crit isn't the ideal stat for a spriest, since haste is more beneficial. 30% increased haste maybe, but the current Glyph is better than 30% crit
    Last edited by Sharpopiev2; 2010-09-25 at 06:29 AM. Reason: d'oh

    The bigger they are, the harder I hit'em

  19. #59
    Please stop crying. Mages rely on an interruptable, 8 second channel which they cant do any damage, and only get mana back, that arcane has to use on cooldown, and fire at least once, depending on the fight.

    You guys have it easy.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaesebrezen View Post
    Dispersion in Cataclysm sucks as the 31 pointer for the following reason:

    You need it for mana reg.

    So you cannot get the 90% damage reduction in most occasions. Have fun with Evocation as your final talent.


    I'm glad to inform you mana now is a problem at 85. So do you still like it(as the 31 point talent) if you have to use it for mana and cannot save it for those boss abilities?
    Wait if mana is a problem and it ends up being used for mana, wouldn't the added mana still increase your dps as you can dps longer because you'll have more mana over other dps mana classes? Or are you trying to say that shadow priests are the only spec with mana issues? If that's the case than it might be fundamental problems with shadow priest regen. On the other hand if it's a problem for all mana using dps, then wouldn't this be more useful over another dps spell that would end up ooming you quicker?

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