Raids and Tiered Gear

[grimkiller]

Searched a bit, didn't find anything like this.
My idea for Tier gear.

T11 should be obtained through raiding the appropriate content and turning in a token drop (we've seen this).
T12 should be obtained through raiding the appropriate content and turning in a token drop along with the previous tier's counterpart (new).

If they follow this model, you can only obtain Tier gear via raiding, and by raiding each step of the way.
You can't have T13 Shoulders if you don't have T12 Shoulders, which you cannot get until you have T11 Shoulders.

Now I know what some of you are thinking.
"You're nuts! I don't want to have to run old content! QQ plox and the like!" Whatever you crazy kids say nowadays.
But by running current content, regardless of what Tier we are currently on, you can obtain off-set pieces via boss drops.
It will just be the Tier gear that's limited to this gating system.
since you can only run each raid once per week (no 10 + 25 runs), you can gear up your alts to get the Tier gear while it's current.

I know, it sounds crazy and anti-friendly, but I feel Tier gear should be special and reserved only for raiders, not just the 5-man runners who are one tier behind.

[Crosscut]

Hear! Hear! I whole-heartedly support this idea. I LOVE Ulduar and it saddens me that noone runs it any more, with the exception of overgeared folks that want a new mount. This implementation would not only force people to experience content, it would also force them to learn how to raid instead of going "HERP DERP ICC LOL" after spamming a few HCs.

[Fizzi]

Interesting concept. It might be harder to do down the road if you're say... trying to gear a fresh 85 alt and your main is already into the T14ish gear.
What Im trying to say is that by the time the vast majority of people are into much later content, it'll be hard to find a group that raids T11 content. Similar to trying to find a Naxx group now for fresh 80 alts.

[MilitantCasual]

I'd be fine with this idea if they brought back Dungeon Sets. I have no problem as a Dungeon Crawler with those shiny purples going to people that raid, as long as we 5 man junkies get some lovin' too.

[Soulssong]

I'm guessing you've never played in Vanilla and BC, when you had to run old content to gear up new people.

This is a horrid idea, plain and simple.

[Fizzi]

I'm guessing you've never played in Vanilla and BC, when you had to run old content to gear up new people.

This is a horrid idea, plain and simple.

Yeah... I actually didn't get a maxed toon until WoTLK.

[Wingwraith]

Blizz has already specifically stated they do not want to go down this road again.

[Deleted]

I support this. I started playing last Christmas and i never really got a chance to explore Ulduar and naxx and the other raids and thats something i wanna do.

/support

[Lebored]

You can support and vote yes on this all you like Blizzard has stated specifically that they don't want this system, and with reduced gear drops in Cata this might be the only way to get an offset.

Perhaps you should spend more time trying to have fun yourself in this game rather than trying to make sure others can't. Allowing people to get old tier off heroics doesn't impact your game play at all.

[bigjenk]

This would have been so fun this expac with a fresh 80 right when icc came out...

Pugging naxx for 2 months then ulduar then toc to get 4 peice t10.

Personally i made a main character switch to help fill a hole in our guild roster in mid toc so forcing my guild to run naxx for like a month since conq peices never drop and then ulduar for a month so that i could have tier or spending even longer pugging it due to having to roll or buy it off of people would be ridiculous. So much complaining that you could get 232 gear for badges when icc was out and in 3 months of not raiding icc you could get your 4 peice.

I would however not be adverse to the new tier for badges being available just at top gear level of last tiers ilvl then upgradable by tokens. For example if 251 was regular icc and 264 h icc if 10 and 25s were the same the badge tier for top badges would be 245 with tokens for 251 and 264.

[Cowpunch]

MISSING OLD CONTENT IS FUN!

Why make content if you only use it for 3 months then never again? honestly.

[Lore Lord]

You all do realize he is talking about tier as in the specific sets, right? Not as in the entire tier of raiding such as all items that drop in ICC. He is still suggesting that a fresh 80 should be able to go straight into ToC and ICC and raid Lich King while getting 264 loot without having to farm the previous tiers. However, he is also stating that the specific sets which provide unique set bonuses should be gained through progressing through all the raids of an expansion as a little treat for people who progressed all the way to the end. Set bonuses are not, or shouldn't be that game breaking as to make it so you can't play your class at all without them and I think it would be a nice little gesture to distinguish hardcore raiders from casuals while still keeping them in the same level of gear.

And to all the people saying no one wants to run outdated content: casuals truly don't mind running old content as long as its new and fun for them, in fact its a large part of what defines them as casual players. They feel no dire need to be in ICC just like they feel no dire need to down heroic Lich King or even regular Lich King in many cases. Most of them would actually like to see the earlier raids at least once. Hardcore raiders who are serious on gear and progression should already be on the most recent tier and if their not, as hardcore players should be willing to put in the time and effort to gear up, otherwise their hypocrits. As for alts, do people really prefer to have their alts doing the same raid they've been farming and are currently farming for a year on their mains over content they haven't done recently and can never do in an appropriate gear level again on their main? It kind of baffles me, but hey, I guess some people like to act hardcore by having 7 alts all on the highest tier of raiding while only needing to work for it on one of them.

[deevicoos]

I support this. I started playing last Christmas and i never really got a chance to explore Ulduar and naxx and the other raids and thats something i wanna do.

/support

You're right, lots of people feel just the way you do. That's why you can make a group and it won't just be a few morons who can't play. I mean if you're outside a guild group doing it for fun every now and then or because they've done everything they can and it's friday, you would be able to find many good PUGs and guilds focused on it? So you can run it. And if you can't find them then no one else feels the way you do.

Nothing needs to change. Naxx is an ugly boring instance now. Ulduar is good but while it's prettier than ICC it's no better, it just has low gear requirements instead of a stacking buff which was cranked up by blizz as if they were expecting to release cata before the end of Q3. And you haven't run it to death yet.

In TBC a lot of players felt the only way to progress was to go through each consecutive tier. And this was true. As a result, a guild who were late to the day had to really burn it. If you were a guild farming one tier of content but not quite ready for the next due to being a couple short, you were very vulnerable to people coming, sucking up gear and moving on while you ran on the spot.

I really like that the two most distinct pieces of tier are raid drops. People can gear up in good time but the wow factor is back. You see shoulders and head more than anything else. If you see someone in the city who has tier 11 head or shoulders you can see them and know they've done some raiding. And that's nice.

[Tobyone]

What happens when your guild is done with Ulduar, and raids ICC and ToC only and you want the ICC tier shoulders. Just because you don't have the shoulders doesn't mean you didn't raid through the proper progression line. Some tier pieces aren't very good for classes, should you be forced to take them from a player who would use them better, just to be able to upgrade them sooner?

I do however agree with having the tier pieces only obtainable form the tokens, stop with this badge or justice point junk. I understand trying to reduce the randomness of gear dropping, but it gets to the point where you don't even have to do that instance to get the gear from it.

[beforememory]

they wont do this, it would be like vanilla was and they said they don't want to go back to that kind of system as sad as that is, it will never be as cool to have your whole teir set anymore

[Thatwsntmilk]

Perhaps you should spend more time trying to have fun yourself in this game rather than trying to make sure others can't. Allowing people to get old tier off heroics doesn't impact your game play at all.

For most people, like myself, it is more about how much fun you can have on your alt. For me dinging 80 on an alt, doing a handful of heroics and afterwards directly running through icc and icc hardmodes is not really what a game, where progression is what most things are about, is supposed to be like.

Nowadays if you want to, you can easily have 10 characters in BiS and close-to-BiS gear - think to yourself if that is really what it should be like.

[grimkiller]

Thanks for the replies guys.
It seems a handful of you failed to understand the part about this only applying to Tiered sets.
I'm pretty sure I said (and I went back and read it so pretty sure = damn sure) that you could get the offset pieces from current content, but the Tiered gear would have prerequisites.

Does this mean in 2 years when you level an alt you HAVE to run old content?
No.
Does this mean in 2 years when you level an alt do you HAVE to run old content to acquire Tiered gear?
Yes.

The whole goal of this was to have Tiered gear be more special, have it's own look that is not replicated by the off-set pieces, and, heaven forbid, require a little work to obtain.

[Shadowviper]

I would say keep tier only in the raids for 2 tiers then when the next one comes out make it available from the vendors for a moderate to high amount of points. Thus keeping the hardcores happy because they will have the high gear and casual happy because they will have the gear eventually.

[Albert the fish]

no this isn't a well thought out idea to be frank

Raid Lead:"T11 head for DK,Rogue,Warlock..roll"
DK:"/roll"
RL:dude don't you have better than that already?
DK: yeah but i want the t12 helm eventually don't i?
RL: so you're taking someone else's hat away so that you can get a better one later, and you won't even wear this one
DK: won't even bother enchanting it. just need it to upgrade

[roboscorcher]

Searched a bit, didn't find anything like this.
I know, it sounds crazy and anti-friendly, but I feel Tier gear should be special and reserved only for raiders, not just the 5-man runners who are one tier behind.

I disagree with you and so does Blizzard. Let's agree to disagree and stop campaigning to fix things that aren't broken.