when there's a clear antagonist is the game boring?

[Grimbley]

question: Is it feasible that BC and WotLK suffered in some sense due to each game's clear antagonist? Or maybe because there was no significant twist in the story so these fights seemed a bit anticlimactic. Players knew they would ultimately face off with (and in all likelihood kill) Illidan and Arthas respectively- so no real surprises. You even knew where they were sitting waiting to be killed (in their ominous base camps)

My thought is this- Blizz didn't unleash it's well-known baddies in vanilla. Players sort of 'unravelled' the story, determining who was the villain was kind of fun. This is probably a result of having played for only a short time, but I really had no idea there was a Firelord lurking in some giant fiery cave below Blackrock Mountain until I got there myself. My main point is this- secrecy and intrigue was kind of cool from a lore standpoint. Not only that but blurring the line between good and evil a bit. It is satisfying to have a clear enemy, but after Arthas and Illidan I'm a little hesitant about a game where Deathwing is the ultimate evil and every boss on the way to killing DW doesn't matter too much. I'm looking for some epic betrayals or twists- maybe i'm not alone?

[Xeraluin]

illidan is not dead, source? me.

[Shivala]

WotLK, yes. Arthas is evil, blah blah, kill.

Burning Crusade, no. Yes, Illidan was the prime antagonist, but as you leveled through Outland, and in the Blood Elf area, and when you ventured through Black Temple, it became clear that MUCH more was at stake, not just Illidan's "omg i h8 every1 ", hence the Sunwell, and Kil'jaeden.

I'm hoping that's how it is with Cataclysm; something beyond Deathwing, to which we're given subtle hints as we level to 85, and throughout the raids (Lady Sinestra is a great indication).

[scandalis]

Hmmmm illidan was the last boss of tBC? This is news to me!

[Maharishi]

A rambling directionless story does not sound appealing to me. Being in a part of a story arc does. Have you ever read a book / seen a (decent) movie where the premise of the conflict was not established in the very beginning?

[Xeraluin]

A rambling directionless story does not sound appealing to me. Being in a part of a story arc does. Have you ever read a book / seen a (decent) movie where the premise of the conflict was not established in the very beginning?

i could say Inception, but taht movie is a mess

[Grimbley]

the premise of the conflict was not established in the very beginning?

Yes- but I have enjoyed stories where the original conflict turns out to be just a drop in the bucket, or maybe even irrelevant. I agree- total lack of direction is silly, but some significant bumps along the way can spice things up a bit.

[Lindvahn]

That's a stupid argument, why do you even play WoW, when you know that you're eventually gonna face down with Sargeras?

Oh, Illidan was the main villain of TBC? Kil'Jaeden says hello. And the revelation of Ulduar was a massive story twist, an old god burried beneath Northrend, don't tell me you saw that one comming. That's how the old gods work, they stay behind the scene and set things in motion, plots beyond the comprehension of us mortals. I remember the battle of the shifting sands, how suddently it was revealed that and old god was about to unleash havok upon the mortal races of Azeroth.

Deathwing is a villain? Bah, he's nothing but a mere pawn of the old gods, never forget who corrupted him, and most likely still have him on a short leash. The old gods seek to tear Azeroth asunder, so they can escape this planet.

You get a 2/10 for not knowing anything about the game lore.

[Grimbley]

You get a 2/10 for not knowing anything about the game lore.

That may be. Never raided really in TBC/WotLK. I liked feeling connected to the story via non raid content. Also- there seems to be an endless chain of even more evil baddies. I'm hoping Deathwing's motives are fleshed out and interesting.

[procne]

A rambling directionless story does not sound appealing to me. Being in a part of a story arc does. Have you ever read a book / seen a (decent) movie where the premise of the conflict was not established in the very beginning?

actually there are many books like that. Books where you uncover mysteries and only at the end you learn everything. With movies its different - most of them are about action, as opposed to books. Story isnt that important. However there are some movies which tell a story instead of being action show

[Falrinn]

Even if there is a clear enemy, there can still be lots of interesting twists and events. We may know Deathwing is the final boss. But how we get there, how it's even possible for us to kill him, and how we deal with the fact we are still living in a shattered world is a mystery.

[Viertel]

I'm torn on this issue.

On one hand, I'm sick and tired of half of the stories in RPG coming down to chasing after your target the entire game, and then a 'plot twist' where some bogus 'reasoning' occurs and you find out he's also just a pawn, with someone else as the chess master. Sadly, this is all done within the last two hours of the game, usually, and it's just pathetic at this point. After dealing with this type of RPG setting since the original NES, I'm really, really tired of it.

On the other hand, having a direct antagonist and the 'story' ending on that antagonist ends up being somewhat unappealing if it's an approach that's used to exclusion of all others. The good side of this type of approach is that having an established 'final boss' for an expansion allows the story team to craft most of the quests and arcing lines to tie directly into such an entity. This way, the story's more cohesive, there are usually less holes not filled, and more players "get" the story (which was the problem with Vanilla WoW, which had no real direction, and TBC, which was wandering all over the damn place).

As much as I hate their xenophobic outlook and terrible platform choices throughout the years, I'd love to see an MMO with a storyline that has the depth of a Tales Namco game. Probably due to the fact the first few games (if not all) had storylines comprised by co-working with an author, their games have the sort of "keep you guessing" without being completely random. They're rich, fairly complex (but not to the point of being confusing), and really suck you into the world and the characters.

[Garekh]

As far as I'm concerned Arthas wasn't the big baddie of WotLK, Yogg-Saron was. Arthas was just a whiny little, attention *****ing punk.

[Gordoo]

Well, they never die, they faint for a week. In different dimensions. Defined by you entering them. And forcing them to faint.

[Sackman]

I agree, they need to pull in some good author to make a more interactive story that isn't so easily decipherable. Even just a small author, someone like Dean Koontz.

[_leander]

People want a 'big evil' to fight. It's also why Thrall and the boy king were removed from Horde/Alliance leadership. Garrosh and Varian are douchebags so they give the sides a reason to dislike each other. Although more and more all it's serving to do is make it clear that Blizzard wants to treat the Horde as the more noble side by comparison by making the Alliance less and less noble.

[Vespene]

I think the story is more interesting when the bad guy is someone who you had a relationship with. For example, wouldn't it be cool to have an NPC that helps you throughout your 1-85 experience and near the end of your leveling reveals himself to be Deathwing in disguise?

[Deleted]

Hmmmm illidan was the last boss of tBC? This is news to me!

I would have preffered he was, the Sunwell seemed very "designed-by-committee"-esque to give players more to do.

Mind you, Sunwell was a pretty good instance, going by what most people thought of it, but it felt thrown in, rather than carefully thought out.

My two cents.

[Beno113]

As far as I'm concerned Arthas wasn't the big baddie of WotLK, Yogg-Saron was. Arthas was just a whiny little, attention *****ing punk.

Yup, And I believe Deathwing won't be the final boss here either, after all, He was only a pawn in the Old God's games

[theomegapoint]

This thread is silly. If you progress through an expansion, read quest text, and pay attention to boss quotes and the like, you will see that every expansion has had an unfolding story that gives you clues and hints as you move through the zones. Sometimes those clues allude to the big baddie of the expansion, sometimes they provide more info on specific "side-line" stories (like the Old Gods, Titans, The Burning Legion, Race-specific storylines, etc.). Sure every player goes into an expansion knowing there's a bad guy at the end of the road waiting for them, but what they don't know is how all of the events that take place in the zones and through your interaction with other (non-player) characters will affect the over-arching plots present in the game word.

If you really want to see how much of the game 99% of players miss on their fanatical grinds to level cap, get comfortable, pull up a chair, brew some tea, and sit down the with Know Your Lore articles over at WoW.com. Take note of names and places, browse through wowwiki, follow intersting links, read, learn, explore. Warcraft is much more than acquiring gear and killing bosses.