Mind spike: Why the extra threat?

[sacrypheyes]

imo, won't happen if you're on the same target.

bliz seems to have added extra aggro to mind spike so that we only start spamming it on targets weak enough for us to kill them before they even reach us.

[Deleted]

they said priests need an attack to kill mobs, which don't live long enough for dotting them. Before 4.0 we only have MF and MB, but the most dmg of us came from dots. MS is an attack that deals more dmg than MF but less than the full rotation
Our dps will look like this:
only using MF/MB < using MS + MB + SW: D < using full single target rotation with dots

But if MS deals more dps than MF, why would we even use MF in our single target rotation?
By adding "deals high amount of thread" blizz ensures, that we still use MF on bossfights instead of replacing it with MS

[Mayden]

Great addition I think.

I guess it has two functions:
1. Giving priests a high-threat ability for possible tanking like lock or mage.
2. More complex rotations. Highest possible dps coming from a rotation with a lot direct damage spells but without pulling agro (juggling threat to make it more challenging).

[Egitel]

Last time I checked on a premade Priest, Mind Spike did slightly more damage than Mind Blast, while having the exact same cast time and mana cost, except that Mind Spike had no CD. So it was a effectively a stronger Mind Blast that you could spam. They probably added the high threat aspect to prevent such a scenario. Also what other people said. It's intended for high burst situations where things will die before the Priest has a chance to ramp up.

EDIT: Keep in mind last I checked this was a few patches ago on the beta, so it could be different now, but I believe that threat was the only change I've noticed in patch notes as of late. One other thing to note, is that Mind Spike originally had the 'high threat' tag, so this isn't new. Probably was unintentionally removed in an earlier patch and they put it back in.

[Kaesebrezen]

EDIT: Keep in mind last I checked this was a few patches ago on the beta, so it could be different now, but I believe that threat was the only change I've noticed in patch notes as of late. One other thing to note, is that Mind Spike originally had the 'high threat' tag, so this isn't new. Probably was unintentionally removed in an earlier patch and they put it back in.

It had it in it's first form on the stored damage part, which got redesigned into the crit bonus. You only procced the extra threat when you wanted it.

Mindspike currently does nothing it was supposed to do:
- kill short lived targets -> one spike and aggro
- school lockout due to multischool -> not working for any of those spells
- does more damage then MB -> why ever waste orbs on mb in normal rotation (if aggro allows it)
- Archangel, Hero + Spike -> sure, get aggro....

The spell is a failure in it's current form, it does nothing it was supposed to do.

[Kelesti]

Mindspike currently does nothing it was supposed to do:
- kill short lived targets -> one spike and aggro
- school lockout due to multischool -> not working for any of those spells
- does more damage then MB -> why ever waste orbs on mb in normal rotation (if aggro allows it)
- Archangel, Hero + Spike -> sure, get aggro....

-> Short Lived Targets are ones that everyone unloads quickly on. They're dying quickly. One Spike does not mean aggro unless you surprisingly hit it before the tank. Even on low/normal threat abilities, if a Mage hits Scorch on something the warrior hasn't hit yet, the Mage has aggro. For your first point, "Don't be bad" seems to be the response.
-> School Lockout not functioning means it hasn't been properly coded in yet. It's intended to be there, but beta is beta.
-> It doing more damage than Mind Blast is because a Numbers Pass hasn't happened yet, when they're still working on ironing out actual rotations and mechanics. Again: beta is beta.
-> If you're having aggro issues, why would your guild be using Bloodlust/Heroism in the first place? Be realistic here.

To everyone else: This may have actually snuck in unintended when the patch went out. There has been no blue-speak about Mind Spike at all. We should hold off until we get actual confirmation (including Penance/Mind Flay ticks, which are also not working)

[Felade]

To everyone else: This may have actually snuck in unintended when the patch went out. There has been no blue-speak about Mind Spike at all. We should hold off until we get actual confirmation (including Penance/Mind Flay ticks, which are also not working)

IIRC, they put this in, took it out, and put it back in again, which probably means it is more than a fleeting experiement.

they said priests need an attack to kill mobs, which don't live long enough for dotting them. Before 4.0 we only have MF and MB, but the most dmg of us came from dots. MS is an attack that deals more dmg than MF but less than the full rotation
Our dps will look like this:
only using MF/MB < using MS + MB + SW: D < using full single target rotation with dots

But if MS deals more dps than MF, why would we even use MF in our single target rotation?
By adding "deals high amount of threat" blizz ensures, that we still use MF on bossfights instead of replacing it with MS

I don't know if this is actually their intention or not, but I'll bet it won't work if that's the case. Shadowpriests would just spam MS until they got too close to their threat cap on the current tank and then either pop fade on CD and/or switch to MF.

To me, it is just backwards. I find threat to be the *least* limiting factor on major boss mobs, and for threat to be the *most* limiting factor on touchy adds, especially ones that spawn mid fight. It sounds to me like they are preventing the ability from doing its intended job. We'll see.

[Kelesti]

IIRC, they put this in, took it out, and put it back in again, which probably means it is more than a fleeting experiement.

Or it was lumped in with a pile of code doing reverts to try and fix other things. I am not so sure about this one. Mind Flay/Penance originally had the intended "multi-tick" functionality, but neither do currently, without mention of it intending to be reverted back.

[Kaesebrezen]

OMind Flay/Penance originally had the intended "multi-tick" functionality, but neither do currently, without mention of it intending to be reverted back.

Where did they say it was intended?

Also:

The design intent of Searing Pain (and Mind Spike) is for these abilities to be used in situations where threat doesn’t matter, such as soloing, PvP, and where different adds spawn that aren’t really affected by threat (such as Snowbolds on ToC as an example, or when players are ensnared in something that has to be broken out of from damage etc.) Or, alternatively, on those rare occasions where a caster tank is optimal.

[The_Butcher]

Its an alternative to having a Warlock using Searing Pain. Just like how they've added alternatives to certain classes specific buffs

[Matchu]

The design intent of Searing Pain (and Mind Spike) is for these abilities to be used in situations where threat doesn’t matter, such as soloing, PvP, and where different adds spawn that aren’t really affected by threat (such as Snowbolds on ToC as an example, or when players are ensnared in something that has to be broken out of from damage etc.) Or, alternatively, on those rare occasions where a caster tank is optimal.

Source: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...2000&pageNo=62
More caster tanks could be interesting, seems to be one an expansion (though Keleseth can be tanked 'normally').

[Dianthe]

I'm not sure what the purpose is. Abilities like Heroic Strike and Death and Decay have always had that "high threat" tag, and people still use them in regular rotations (either single-target or aoe, obviously). This modifier isn't going to change anybody's rotation.

I guess it could be considered utility for pulling mobs off of healers or an added oompf for ranged tanking, as someone else mentioned.

Tanking won't be as faceroll as it is now. So you will probably pull aggro off tanks if you cast it regularly.

[Vook]

Last I read, Mind Spike is, like said, only to be used on quick-dying targets like adds. The normal rotation of full dots and MB/MF should be much higher DPS than spamming Mind Spike.

[Domenico]

Why? How about, "just because"? I mean, every time I log onto this site all I see are our talents, and spells percentages and totals go down, their costs and cooldowns go up and everyone else getting damage buffs, mana discounts and reduced cooldowns. This expansion is KILLING this game for me.

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Originally Posted by Agostil
Because as far as I recall, Mind Spike was meant to be the spell for some special situations and the high amount of aggro it's producing could prevent players from using it over Mind Flay.
This.

For DPS, this whole expansion is about learning to control yourself, rather than blowing your load in the first 10 seconds. Blizzard want DPS to really think about what they are doing, rather than automatically hitting the buttons that make the biggest numbers.
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Oh, really? Then why not increased threat on all dps classes spammable moves? This is clearly a priest nerf because they STILL won't let our DPS spec ever be on par with other DPS specs. Blizz is effing up big time.

---------- Post added 2010-09-30 at 08:21 PM ----------

they said priests need an attack to kill mobs, which don't live long enough for dotting them. Before 4.0 we only have MF and MB, but the most dmg of us came from dots. MS is an attack that deals more dmg than MF but less than the full rotation
Our dps will look like this:
only using MF/MB < using MS + MB + SW: D < using full single target rotation with dots

But if MS deals more dps than MF, why would we even use MF in our single target rotation?
By adding "deals high amount of thread" blizz ensures, that we still use MF on bossfights instead of replacing it with MS

Same reason they had Lightwell as a prereq for Chakra for a while. They don't want to admit design fail so they force us to use spells the way they want us to, rather than designing spells to work correctly which would have the desired result--we'd use them the way they were intended.

There is so much flailing and failing in this xpac, it's gotta be embarrassing.

[Deleted]

Oh, really? Then why not increased threat on all dps classes spammable moves? This is clearly a priest nerf because they STILL won't let our DPS spec ever be on par with other DPS specs. Blizz is effing up big time.

You clearly never played a shadow priest, did you. I can't tell big things either, cos I'm playing mine only since mid-WotLK and am going back to mainly heal in Cata, but as far as I'm concerned, a shadow priest is no arcane mage, the shadow mechanic doesn't work with just two buttons, it never did and I'm really thankful for it. Spriest's rotation is created around damage over time, still is, ever will be, for that matter. And that makes this class competitive, since, you see, in the time where other classes are dealing nearly no damage, cos they're required to move, our dots tic and tic. For a long time fight like against several bosses (especially encounters like the Lich King himself), this makes you win.

What they do now is not taking a mechanic away from us. No, they give us another way to throughput our DPS, namely when it comes to fights where we cannot start our whole rotation before the mob crumbles. That is an improvement and no nerf. The only thing they're saying now is: Take this for what it is and don't mess up you're rotation with it, cos it's no use. No, they're doing even more, they further say: Take this as a high aggro generating spell, to maybe use it in some delicate situations where you're required to produce aggro. These cases do exist.

Meanwhile, we are basically the only caster class in Cata who deals damage by moving and a vast amount of it while doing so. Besides, what would be the fun of standing around spamming Mind Spike and Mind Blast, when your Mind Flay refreshes SW:P, reduces the cooldown of your Shadow Fiend and has a higher chance to deal extra damage by critting? You clearly want MF in you're rotation, way over MS.

And by the way, sure, they are nerfing Spriests because they hate them so much...
QQing must feel really awesome.

Same reason they had Lightwell as a prereq for Chakra for a while. They don't want to admit design fail so they force us to use spells the way they want us to, rather than designing spells to work correctly which would have the desired result--we'd use them the way they were intended.

Or maybe they just want to balance the game around several fun mechanics. Lightwell for example is a lot of fun, if you use it, it's almost a perfect spell in Cata. The heal throughput is godlike and this little gimmick is disburdening healers big time. Of course they want us to use it, it's part of the game. And now that they made it very efficient and likeable, good players who care for their health will click on it.

And of cause Blizz wants us to use spells the way they want us to, that's the only way to grant a balanced gameplay. They create certain situations and they give us some determined means to deal with these. Now, when you're spamming MS onto a boss you're as wrong as a frost mage spamming Frost Bolt, since you are not using the facilities of your spec. And as said, the facilities of a shadow priest are set around Mind Flay.

But if MS deals more dps than MF, why would we even use MF in our single target rotation?
By adding "deals high amount of thread" blizz ensures, that we still use MF on bossfights instead of replacing it with MS

My informations can be wrong, but as far as I know, MS deals as much damage as MF with its dmg+ from SW:P. Only that Mind Flay procs some other mechanisms and has a multiplicated chance of doing extra crit damage, while Mind Spike does it throughput out of the regular rotation but generates way more aggro. Besides, what would be the use of two exchangeable spells? Why do people hate Mind Flay that much?

By the way, Shadow is a dps spec, I'm clear on that. But if you look a little deeper, what actually makes it most valuable are the special facilities, that come with it and are using different mechanics. So, yeah, look out for doing as much dps as you can, but maybe you want to consider using all the other useful things, too. Or do you ignore buffing MW:F, because it's doing nothing for your dps?

[Deleted]

Usually they do this to stop people from spamming a spell constantly. They've said they don't want Mind Spike as part of the main rotation and pretty much just for very short fight durations (or ads on bosses).

I believe this is what I read in a blue post. Mind Spike might be powerful, but they don't want it to become a main spell - even though the same effect can be reached by just making it really expensive in mana cost.

[Deleted]

Mind Spike might be powerful, but they don't want it to become a main spell - even though the same effect can be reached by just making it really expensive in mana cost.

Think of this a bit. Would you use a mana intensive spell in the middle of a long boss encounter to kill down some adds? Your aggro on them is gone after they died, but your mana is gone for the whole fight. And as stated before, a spell generating a high amount of aggro can be very useful.

[bw13187]

Counterspell claims to produce a high amount of threat. I think it actually produces 50.

so yeah

[Deleted]

COS PRIESTS SHOULD TANK!

I can't wait =D

[Torne]

Mind spike is designed for quick trash (something that dies fast) or pvp when you can´t afford a huge ramp up time.
without the extra threat people would use it in their normal rotation to boost MB damage, witch is not intended.