Immo, Conflag & searing pain

[Deleted]

Yo,

Before 55% change to immo i had 15k conflags. Now when i logged to check it out i score 20,5k conflags.

Searing pain became ridiculously good now. TBH its better then incinerate and hits just as hard as incinerate on immolated target.

Soulburn has new icon, SBurn + Searing Pain let me score 5 9k+ criticals in a row. SP now does 4400-4700 HITS [same as incinerate]. Improved searing pain actually looks promising now.

Immolate crits for me for up to 5200 initial dmg and dots tick for 2050, crits up to 4100.


For those who wanted some numbers.

Stats: 3300 SP, 29% crit, 14% haste, 130 spell penetration. Glyph of Immolate.

Destro spec/pvp

[Chad warden]

I dont wanna use SP in PvP Incinerate looks so much cooler

[Deleted]

SP doesnt have travel time . Im sure theyll buff incin somewhat. But in the old classic wow times, locks actually used SP in pvp mostly aside from seduce nuke.

[Deleted]

This is just so bad... I mean yeah, other classes have good tools too. But right now all we need to do in pvp is immo+conflag and move to next target. Some targets might even require a chaosbolt after that but on PTR ppl die like flies to that combination.

Maybe its ok in relation to the burst of the other classes. But if this goes live, its gonna be awful for pvp. They should just give a dmg reduction debuff in all battlegrounds and arena of about 50%. So everyone gets treated the same and the insane 1-2 shot orgies are toned down. Right now you cant do anything if someone hits you with any cc and youre being casted at by more than 1 caster.

I play destruction since I created my warlock, but I feel this was a bit too much love.

[ComputerNerd]

It is still used as a pvp nuke, though primarily in affliction rather than destruction since it is not risking a shadow lockout.
That boost in damage will only support that.
Some argue over that compared to drain life, but a drain which is itself more prone to interupption and one which will lock out the bulk of your options is not always a safe option in pvp.
Numbers are not yet balanced on the PTR, so that level of burst is not intended.
We can but hope that pvp gear, together with the greater healthpools will substantially reduce the effectiveness of burst, but that remains to be seen.
I am not so confident, since this is by no means the first attempted "fix", and so far it is not been resolved.

[Daggy1111]

ptr is still in wotlk balance, once the new hp pools take effect the huge hits really arnt all that bad. In fact immo conflag chaos is still a bit weaker then elly shammy burst is right now(once elly gets set up anyways).

[Yoshimiko]

Arcane blasting for 75k, Conflags for 20-25k, Starfire for 19-20k, Haven't you guys figured out? These changes AREN'T for level 80 pvp, they're for level 85 pvp. Damage DOESNT go up very much from 80->85, not nearly as much as health does. Complaining about damage in 4.0.1 for pvp, is like complaining about paladins in 3.0.1. Wait til everything else comes, THEN complain. :P

Keep in mind, atm on beta level 85s are pushing maybe 18k-20k dps, with health pools in pve gear of 100k, and expected pvp health pools of 150-180k. You can expect dps to go down in pvp gear as well. It's too early to say anything of cata pvp.

[Deleted]

Well, even if they upped its dmg to lvl of incinerate, with more spellpower incin > SP due to spell coefficients kicking in

If we dont have in pvp epics ~150k at start.... itll be a MESS. i foresee ~250-300k hp by the end of xpension. then at ll 90 well have 2mln hp....

---------- Post added 2010-09-29 at 02:48 PM ----------

Arcane blasting for 75k, Conflags for 20-25k, Starfire for 19-20k, Haven't you guys figured out? These changes AREN'T for level 80 pvp, they're for level 85 pvp. Damage DOESNT go up very much from 80->85, not nearly as much as health does. Complaining about damage in 4.0.1 for pvp, is like complaining about paladins in 3.0.1. Wait til everything else comes, THEN complain. :P

Keep in mind, atm on beta level 85s are pushing maybe 18k-20k dps, with health pools in pve gear of 100k, and expected pvp health pools of 150-180k. You can expect dps to go down in pvp gear as well. It's too early to say anything of cata pvp.

And you think 20-75k crits arent much even for 100k hp ? Thats STILL a lot. Too much tbh.

[gherkin]

Incinerate still has the higher spell power coefficient. You'll be casting this one more than SP.

---------- Post added 2010-09-29 at 08:01 AM ----------

I have 70k hp, buffed, in a 5 man, with ilvl 333 blues.

150k is a stretch.

[Simca]

And you think 20-75k crits arent much even for 100k hp ? Thats STILL a lot. Too much tbh.

You missed the part where level 85s do a lot less DPS than level 80s due to gear deflation. You may do 20k dps now, but you'll do 10-15k at 85.

[Chad warden]

This is just so bad... I mean yeah, other classes have good tools too. But right now all we need to do in pvp is immo+conflag and move to next target. Some targets might even require a chaosbolt after that but on PTR ppl die like flies to that combination.

Maybe its ok in relation to the burst of the other classes. But if this goes live, its gonna be awful for pvp. They should just give a dmg reduction debuff in all battlegrounds and arena of about 50%. So everyone gets treated the same and the insane 1-2 shot orgies are toned down. Right now you cant do anything if someone hits you with any cc and youre being casted at by more than 1 caster.

I play destruction since I created my warlock, but I feel this was a bit too much love.

what? even if conflagrate crits 20k on players (thats without resi), it still wont be close enough to kill them. at 85 that is. ele have WAY more ridiculous burst atm. ele overload gives u 2 lava bursts, chain lighting and then 30k earth shock crit. PROT warriors critting 25k.

[Deleted]

You missed the part where level 85s do a lot less DPS than level 80s due to gear deflation. You may do 20k dps now, but you'll do 10-15k at 85.

Not really.

Ratings we currently have will be worth nothing at 85, but base damage of spells will also go by quite a lot during levels and entry lvl blue pvp/pve gear will still give us ratings to pull more dps then we currently have.

I assure yuou at lvl 85 we will do more dps then we do now. Well have more SP etc. And what ratings exactly other then SP and crit chance really affect for example conflagrate?

---------- Post added 2010-09-29 at 04:48 PM ----------

what? even if conflagrate crits 20k on players (thats without resi), it still wont be close enough to kill them. at 85 that is. ele have WAY more ridiculous burst atm. ele overload gives u 2 lava bursts, chain lighting and then 30k earth shock crit. PROT warriors critting 25k.

I gave it as an example

Right now i can do immo->CB->SBSF->Conf, 2,5k + 7/14k + 7/14k + 11/22k dmg [seconds are eventuall crits]

There ARE more op abilities but that shows just how much numbers need to be tweaked.

---------- Post added 2010-09-29 at 04:49 PM ----------

As for conflag, with glyph it has 8sec cd :>

[Boyiee]

Well, even if they upped its dmg to lvl of incinerate, with more spellpower incin > SP due to spell coefficients kicking in

If we dont have in pvp epics ~150k at start.... itll be a MESS. i foresee ~250-300k hp by the end of xpension. then at ll 90 well have 2mln hp....


And you think 20-75k crits arent much even for 100k hp ? Thats STILL a lot. Too much tbh.

Blue mentioned about 100k hp in last raid instance. Right now 85's in blues are around 85k hp. There will not be 150k+ at the start, stam is being normalized for eveyone and pvpgear isn't going to give us hundreds of thousands of hp.

[Yoshimiko]

Blue mentioned about 100k hp in last raid instance. Right now 85's in blues are around 85k hp. There will not be 150k+ at the start, stam is being normalized for eveyone and pvpgear isn't going to give us hundreds of thousands of hp.

ATM ilvl 333 dps are sitting around 90-100k hp, that's in full PVE gear. You can check out any heroic Cata dungeons and see that's pretty average, short of people still wearing T10 gear for some odd reason.

75k Arcane blasts takes about 10 seconds of setup, All procs, and skills used. If a mage is allowed to get this setup in pvp, You deserve to die. This is exactly how blizzard intends it. If you allow someone to setup huge amounts of burst, then line up CC with it, You get exactly what's coming. See a mage at 100% mana, max stacks of Ablast, with popped trinkets/arcane power/Eaten a mana gem and you don't CC him or counterspell anything in that setup? You die. Big surprise.

Keep in mind all numbers today are based around T10.5 gear, best of the best pve gear you can get, and people are only getting these numbers a small % of the time, with the exception of Ele shammy{which I think everyone agrees is doing high damage}. Deflation of haste, crit, and mastery ratings will greatly impact these numbers. Ontop of that for pvp you'll be trading off all of these stats for HP and Resil.

In short, don't complain about stuff that has no solid evidence yet. We have no idea what trade-offs will be for 85 pvp gear, nor just how badly deflation will hit you. Wait for more info to be released.

[Deleted]

The problem with the "it is based on level 85 pvp" logic is, that we will have to play several weeks in this scenario.

Add a debuff for all battlegrounds and arena so that people deal 50% less damage and receive 50% less healing. It works in ICC for the dmg buff, so why shouldnt it work for pvp.

That way the 1-2 shots would not happen and you can easily cut the debuff once the expansion comes.

[hellar]

This is just so bad... I mean yeah, other classes have good tools too. But right now all we need to do in pvp is immo+conflag and move to next target. Some targets might even require a chaosbolt after that but on PTR ppl die like flies to that combination.

Maybe its ok in relation to the burst of the other classes. But if this goes live, its gonna be awful for pvp. They should just give a dmg reduction debuff in all battlegrounds and arena of about 50%. So everyone gets treated the same and the insane 1-2 shot orgies are toned down. Right now you cant do anything if someone hits you with any cc and youre being casted at by more than 1 caster.

I play destruction since I created my warlock, but I feel this was a bit too much love.

thats b.c its ptr. people still dont and i guess never will understand that ptr damg is all wrong. GO BY BETA DAMG IF ANYTHING. its going to take quite a rotation just to kill someone in pvp. there wont even be close to 2 shots anymore.

[Deleted]

thats b.c its ptr. people still dont and i guess never will understand that ptr damg is all wrong. GO BY BETA DAMG IF ANYTHING. its going to take quite a rotation just to kill someone in pvp. there wont even be close to 2 shots anymore.

And i guess some people will never understand havent gone through classic-> tbc and tbc-> wotlk, i went through that and burst always remained stupidly high higher and higher from xpack to xpack.

[Repo123]

what? even if conflagrate crits 20k on players (thats without resi), it still wont be close enough to kill them. at 85 that is. ele have WAY more ridiculous burst atm. ele overload gives u 2 lava bursts, chain lighting and then 30k earth shock crit. PROT warriors critting 25k.

But there will be alot more crits as well, so you have more health and they will have more crits.

They will have their interrupts, silences and stuns. We get fear. Unless they put silences and stuns on the same dr's, you more than likely will still die rather quickly.