Looks like Ret's numbers pass is starting...

[Munk]

As much as I love to rag on people for being bad, requital is FAR from a bad pally. He's got experience and evidence of his skill in spades.

Its already been listed why those parries are one there. Stop trying to cling to the old and very cliche "people who play ret are baddies".

[manageri]

Parries? So you're dumb enough to not attack from behind and we're supposed to believe you're a credible source of information? You're just a bad ret-tard who's numbers are low because you're bad

If you think people can avoid parries 100% of the time (especially on trash) you have no fucking clue about this game.

[iktankniet]

stop qouting him now please, its been taken care of. i liked the discussion so far. lets continue

[Zelol]

Was just about to respond but our super fast moderators already cuffed the person who obviously was ignorant and didnt even read the thread and answered utter nonsense..

Be it as it may, i still feel that there are ways to go with ret and many other classes. As stated previously casters seem to be in a decent spot at the moment and this shadowpriest (in the logs) did something wrong and perhaps was not used to playing the class due to missing out some very crucial Cata damage abilities. SP´s have a large range of utilities for exactly this kind of add fight and should have performed WAY better than that.

All in all, we have a few months left of number tweaking left; i urge to be patient because this number game is exactly what blizz is playing at the moment and A LOT of stuff can happen in two months or so.

[Assassin1344]

I only have a lvl 70 pally but how do you guys think a mechanic similar to Scourge Strike would work. Maybe tack on 30% of CS or TV damage as Holy damage. That way you could get a better effect from Inquisition. Just a random thought =D

[Frozen Death Knight]

As it is now, they should just remove "Inquisition" and make seals 30 seconds, again, and buff their Holy damage. There is no way on this earth that I will ever use that spell in a PvP setting, unless I get 1 extra Holy Power after using "TV" and/or "Art of War" happens to have procced.

Blizzard, Blizzard, Blizzard... *shake head* Sometimes I wonder if you think through all the changes you make to Paladins, especially Retribution, since the consequences seem to be bigger than the benefits most of the time, apparently.

You know, I'm starting to be 100% sure that our best partner in Arena will be Arms Warriors. Think about it, the spec has MS, snares, and that darn 100% armour penetration attack, which we will seem to need as much as them, now.

[Hexme]

at lvl 80 with a 3sec CS rotation, I'm getting 6.3k dps without shadowmourne. it's quite stable and a nice flow at this haste lvl.
but that at lvl 85 is not doable at the moment, so it means the rotation is gonna feel a lot more messed up.
also, I was running into mana problems this this kinda of haste (32% I think with judgment buff) since I was almost only doing CS, TV or exo.
i guess it's bad to take this kind of habit, since it's not what we will use at lvl 85. But even if crusader strike is a bit boring to do every 2 attacks, you have to choose what you're gonna do. Like sometimes, I was holding off art of war proc for more than 3 gcd, if you put CS and TV before.

Hmmm on live at least vs heroic target dummy i'm at 5.2k dps while on the ptr (not beta) i'm pretty much at 5k even :/.

Although it makes me sad on the ptr my ele shaman is at 6.2k ><'

[Deleted]

learn to qoute plx

Casters are OP, not right when it comes to numbers.

Tell me 10k icelances are ok ? because thats what mages do atm and take people out in 3 lances, i did 32k conflagrate, i ate 75k arcane barrage and 35k arcane blast.

Its the casters in need of toning down not the melee.

[Agathon]

is there are a way to aquire the new glyphs on the ptr? i am an inscribe, visited the trainer, see the glyph (TV) greyed out in my glyph menu but cant find any info how to learn this? (or is it cataclysm inscription research?)

[Deleted]

is there are a way to aquire the new glyphs on the ptr? i am an inscribe, visited the trainer, see the glyph (TV) greyed out in my glyph menu but cant find any info how to learn this? (or is it cataclysm inscription research?)

OT

You're not inscribe, you are Scribe.

You have to learn profession again and youll start at the level you have previously been. Then you just have to relearn all the recipes. :>

[Agathon]

well, when i visited the trainer i could learn alot of recipes, but tv glyph was not one of them.
i will try relearning the whole profession.


edit: does NOT work. because you DONT start at the lvl you previously have been. now i have to transfer again thanks :/

[Manstallion]

I don't see why they don't just make our special attack damage "physical holy" that is reduced by armor but increased by anything that effects Holy damage. Mages have Frostfire so I know it's possible. They could even come up with a snazzy name for it, if they so desire. It would make Inquisition worth pressing, while still keeping the PvP crowd from QQing.

As far as Zealotry goes, it's just a garbage ability. I don't even have it on my bar. The only way to make it useful would be to remove the HP cost.

---------- Post added 2010-10-01 at 09:33 AM ----------

is there are a way to aquire the new glyphs on the ptr? i am an inscribe, visited the trainer, see the glyph (TV) greyed out in my glyph menu but cant find any info how to learn this? (or is it cataclysm inscription research?)

Copy a pre-made. They start with all the glyphs.

[PalliesThrowStuff]

As it is now, they should just remove "Inquisition" and make seals 30 seconds, again, and buff their Holy damage. There is no way on this earth that I will ever use that spell in a PvP setting, unless I get 1 extra Holy Power after using "TV" and/or "Art of War" happens to have procced.

Blizzard, Blizzard, Blizzard... *shake head* Sometimes I wonder if you think through all the changes you make to Paladins, especially Retribution, since the consequences seem to be bigger than the benefits most of the time, apparently.

You know, I'm starting to be 100% sure that our best partner in Arena will be Arms Warriors. Think about it, the spec has MS, snares, and that darn 100% armour penetration attack, which we will seem to need as much as them, now.

I actually just got my beta key last night.

I was up all night burning the insomniac oil, and after playing with Inquisition and so on for a while... I did find a definitive use for it.

I'm producing much, much better numbers from my DPS if I stagger Avenging Wrath and Zealotry.

Pop Inq right before AW, and put your hammer on higher priority than CS, only bother with your typical rotation while HoW is on CD.

It's worth much more DPS than stacking AW/Zealotry, to use Inq + AW, and Zealotry + CS/TV seperately.

Zealotry doesn't play nice with Inquisition, but Avenging Wrath does, no promises, but I suspect when I get to 85 and start playing with the Guardian, he'll play really nice with Inquisition and AW, too, while Zealotry will just kind of be its own thing.

[Manstallion]

I actually just got my beta key last night.

I was up all night burning the insomniac oil, and after playing with Inquisition and so on for a while... I did find a definitive use for it.

I'm producing much, much better numbers from my DPS if I stagger Avenging Wrath and Zealotry.

Pop Inq right before AW, and put your hammer on higher priority than CS, only bother with your typical rotation while HoW is on CD.

It's worth much more DPS than stacking AW/Zealotry, to use Inq + AW, and Zealotry + CS/TV seperately.

Zealotry doesn't play nice with Inquisition, but Avenging Wrath does, no promises, but I suspect when I get to 85 and start playing with the Guardian, he'll play really nice with Inquisition and AW, too, while Zealotry will just kind of be its own thing.

Zealotry doesn't play nice with any of our abilities. The duration is to short and the ramp up is too long. You very rarely find a boss where you spend enough time straight DPSing where you have time to get 3 HP up, pop Zealotry, and continue DPSing for the entire duration of Zealotry. It ends up being a waste of HP that could have been better used on another TV.

[Deleted]

All tanks are doing incredible damage i think it goes DK -> War -> Pal in terms of the damage they do.

Bears can tank too

Speaking of which, any indication of how Bears are doing in terms of tanking on the beta? Like, gaining and maintaining aggro?

---------- Post added 2010-10-01 at 03:51 PM ----------

I don't see why they don't just make our special attack damage "physical holy" that is reduced by armor but increased by anything that effects Holy damage. Mages have Frostfire so I know it's possible.

Well, merging magic schools with eachother is different than merging physical and magic damage.

They're completely based on different things (Armor and Resistance is very different) and it would be really hard to balance it out I guess.

[Manstallion]

Well, merging magic schools with eachother is different than merging physical and magic damage.

They're completely based on different things (Armor and Resistance is very different) and it would be really hard to balance it out I guess.

As far as I know, "Holy resistance" doesn't exist anywhere in the game. It's not on the character pane anyway. Maybe certain bosses or NPCs have it, but I'd bet it's pretty rare. For all intents and purposes, the damage would be completely physical, just considered "Holy" for flavor, and to increase effectiveness from spells like Inquisition.

[Vanderhuge]

Any boss/mob that's X amount of levels higher than you can resist your Holy damage - but this is the same for any school of magic. Also note that Curse of the Elements and its counterparts also boost your Holy damage by 13%. If I'm not mistaken, on Live it's just as good (if not better in some cases) than Sunder Armor.

[Remulade]

I dont know why, but for some reason I miss the old Seal of Command, but ofc it had to much RNG in it...but would love doing double dmg to stunned people. Seen for a PVP perspective. Never been good at knowing what ret's need in PVE since im mostly stuck in holy.

[Manstallion]

Any boss/mob that's X amount of levels higher than you can resist your Holy damage - but this is the same for any school of magic. Also note that Curse of the Elements and its counterparts also boost your Holy damage by 13%. If I'm not mistaken, on Live it's just as good (if not better in some cases) than Sunder Armor.

Well Curse of the Elements increases "spell" damage correct? Abilities like Crusader Strike and Templar's Verdict wouldn't be considered spells, so they wouldn't benefit from it. Exorcism could be effected, but it is now so it wouldn't be a huge change.

[Sindy]

I like how Shadowfiend did a shit ton more damage than Guardian did. :P