Critical rating in cata

[Tritone496]

This directed at those of you in the beta or ptr. Looking at the revamped talent tree and the new passive skills in destro - where is the crit rating going to come from as it has been mostly removed in the talent trees for both destro and demo. Possibly making crit rating more valuable from gear. Just looking for some thoughts on this.

[conqq]

might be a real issue to stack crit come cata, just my 2 cents

---------- Post added 2010-10-01 at 03:48 PM ----------

or maybe stack so much haste that crit won't matter

[Doomcloud]

It should make crit more valuable relative to haste but mastery works in roughly the same way for destruction (ie 1st percentage is twice as valuable as the 100th one) so one of the two will likely be strictly superior at all reasonable levels (I mean if you have 40% mastery and still 10% crit it might flip)

For affliction I expect haste to be best followed by mastery (though mastery might be better than haste if you are using drain life as the filler, which could be the case at 80) and crit the worst still.

Demonlogy is probably the most interesting, I think at early gear levels it will probably be haste followed by crit, but as haste increases, metamorphosis uptime goes up and makes mastery significantly better.

There are some problems that hurt crit scaling, one there is pretty much nothing as a warlock that procs on crits anymore, and the second is that instead of having 150% crits +100% we just have 200%, so the crit meta no longer gives us 209% crits.

[ComputerNerd]

I do not think it is a black or white answer.
Which stat proves more valuable will I think as the previous poster stated vary not only on your spec, but the quantity of the stats you have due to diminishing returns.
The caps are supossed to be harder if not impossible to reach come cataclysm, so a lot of the assumptions we make now may well no longer apply.

[hellar]

crit is gona come with gear.

cata is gona be
get hit caped
find mastery cap
gem haste

[Doomcloud]

They already stated there isn't a mastery cap.. Only a handful of classes can even max their mastery (block chance for example) and blizzard thinks that isn't a problem.

But anyways, its hard to imagine haste not remaining at the very least better than crit, especially with all the dots having haste scaling now. It is too early to work out which is better(between mastery/crit or mastery/haste) at current gear levels because the last few patches have buffed or nerfed mastery for one spec or another. Even when those numbers are calculated they need to be recalculated with estimates of full tier 11 gear levels. Not to mention the classes have changed so much that you can't just slot mastery in versus current haste/crit scaling.

[hellar]

o i know there is no cap to how much mastery you can have but there will be a cap on mastery for classes. Just like ele shamans want some what of a haste cap so they can get a X amount of lighting blots in before lava burst is up. There is going to be a x number of haste or mastery cap(dont know yet) and once we hit that "soft cap" we will gem the rest of our gear with haste or mastery.

[ComputerNerd]

Not a cap in the amount, but as haste and crit can swap positions as one reaches a certain amount, then there may prove to be optimum values or soft-caps for mastery as such where gaining more will see a diminishing return on the benefits and eventually dropping below the dps gain of another stat.

[Doomcloud]

Unlike crit and haste there won't be any soft caps and there won't be anything like how haste has plateaus due to making/missing procs and cds. Haste barely has any dr(compared to crit for example) and this is one of the reasons the majority of casters can/do stack haste until they bring spells below the gcd.

Yes there will be the point where crit surpasses mastery because you have so much mastery(unless mastery is so good it is better than haste, or crit is better to start with)... but once you add 5% crit you might be able to add another 10% mastery before crit becomes better again. These tipping points are generally at extremely high ratings and go back and forth. You won't have to worry about it in t11 gear and you won't have to worry about it in t10 gear.

This is all theoretical of course as it is quite possible that mastery will end up the junk stat for 2 of the 3 classes or whatever. I'd attempt to run the calculations myself, but without a raid environment, and without knowing if these are the final numbers, it is a waste of time.

---------- Post added 2010-10-02 at 11:25 AM ----------

There is also other things to consider. For example it is likely that DoTs scale better with haste than shadowbolt does for afflicition. If dots scale better with haste, then afflictions mastery scales better with haste. It could be to the point where at 0 ratings haste is 1st, crit is 2nd, mastery is 3rd, but when you have 20% haste mastery is 2nd and crit is last.

Haste also scales better with demonology mastery. Haste increases the uptime of demonform, making mastery better.

Only destruction really has a mastery that is independent(relatively speaking) of haste.

[Jessicka]

The intent was that different specs within classes would prefer different stats, be they Mastery, Crit or Haste, or perhaps even Intellect now Spellpower scales directly from that. Until the numbers and scaling are final it's very hard to say. On the face of it though, Affliction would prefer Haste due to it scaling so well with DoTs and getting Crit baseline, Demonology will like Mastery because it improves pets, and they get Haste baseline, and Destruction may well like Crit as it has increased damage scaling. There simply wont be a 'one' stat for all classes of Warlocks.

Also, as Doomcloud says, the priority of stats should also vary more with the stats you have already, meaning priorities may well change with your gear.

[Deleted]

actually ATM it looks like haste crit and mastery is well balanced.

As destro i prefer crit more due to backdraft.

As affli i prefer mastery then crit and haste balanced together since ill have eradication and nice crit from talents.

[Doomcloud]

Quite curious where you have this information that they are currently well balanced from. I'd be shocked if they ended well balanced, haste has been overpowered for so long and just got buffed. I also don't see what crit has to do with backdraft, it isn't hard to be below the softcap, it may never again be reached after level 85 rating drops anyways.

[Tritone496]

Im sorry peeps i should have been more specific - what im getting at is with the new spell coeffients are you finding that non critical strikes are enough to keep your dps where it should be with the loss of talented crit strike rating or is it lacking just like it does when you have a bad rng fight.Curiuos because locks have always been dependant on a good crit percentage. Especially concerning since ruin is now gone from the talent tree

[Doomcloud]

We've been historically one of the least crit dependant classes with a low crit bonus and next to no procs on critical spell hits. I'd be really surprised to be honest if crit was anything other than the worst stat the whole way through for all 3 specs.

[Tritone496]

Interesting doom i hope your right cause if you arent crit is gonna be alot more important and is a stat i will be stacking with gear and trinkets. You cannot pull that much crit out of a toon and not suffer unless the new spells are making up for it.

[Jessicka]

We've been historically one of the least crit dependant classes with a low crit bonus and next to no procs on critical spell hits. I'd be really surprised to be honest if crit was anything other than the worst stat the whole way through for all 3 specs.

Crit was very important in TBC to maintain the ISB buff for extra Shadow Damage.

[Dethh]

Crit was very important in TBC to maintain the ISB buff for extra Shadow Damage.

You got it with gear and talents so it wasn't anything to be concerned with.

[Doomcloud]

Crit was very important in TBC to maintain the ISB buff for extra Shadow Damage.

By very important do you mean worse than spell power and haste and hit and thus the worst stat? Maybe if you were running 1 lock it would matter, but the crit you naturally had on gear was more than enough. Most classes can't say "My class has never gemmed crit" being able to say that means we have historically been one of the least reliant on crit.

[Deleted]

Quite curious where you have this information that they are currently well balanced from. I'd be shocked if they ended well balanced, haste has been overpowered for so long and just got buffed. I also don't see what crit has to do with backdraft, it isn't hard to be below the softcap, it may never again be reached after level 85 rating drops anyways.

From testing obviously. PErfect choice is now mixing them up. Really as far as pvp goes but for PvE DPS is around the same.

Obviously as Destro youll want more crit, as affli more mastery, as demo a bit more haste.

---------- Post added 2010-10-05 at 07:23 AM ----------

By very important do you mean worse than spell power and haste and hit and thus the worst stat? Maybe if you were running 1 lock it would matter, but the crit you naturally had on gear was more than enough. Most classes can't say "My class has never gemmed crit" being able to say that means we have historically been one of the least reliant on crit.

BUAHHAHA

Sorry i had to.

There was NO haste in TBC until the last tier of PvE gear. And even then it was only a LITTLE bit of haste.


Where do you people get the idea that TBC had anywherenear the ammount of haste there is now?

And no, in the past in classic wow we were VERY depending on crit especially with SM/Ruin spec [30/0/21]

[Doomcloud]

There was NO haste in TBC until the last tier of PvE gear. And even then it was only a LITTLE bit of haste.


Where do you people get the idea that TBC had anywherenear the ammount of haste there is now?

And no, in the past in classic wow we were VERY depending on crit especially with SM/Ruin spec [30/0/21]

Thats funny because I had over 35% haste at the end of TBC and that was mostly spinels for gems, haste was most definitely in BT/Hyjal (for example, Zhar'doom) gemming crit was retarded, and you never wanted anymore crit than what came on the gear that happened to be BiS. Every item in Sunwell had haste on it, so that is clearly not a "LIITLE bit of haste".

Prior to BT/Hyjal affliction was the best spec until late tier 5 and had no use for crit at all. All of WotLK crit has been terrible. In classic with only a few exceptions we just wore whatever had the highest ilvl or best bonus.


I am sure anyone that played a truly crit dependant class (you know one with more than 200% crit damage) would laugh at you calling us crit dependant.