1. #1

    Shadow Word: Pain

    I keep hearing two different things here. Shadow Word Pain should now re-calculate all bonuses when it is reapplied through Channeling Mind Flay{pardon me for forgetting the talent name} on a target. Is there any need to do the wonky DP>VT>MB>2x MF>Sw: P or can I just do what I'm used to from my afflic lock{VT>DP>SW: P} with no major consequences?(Or even SW: P>DP>VT>SW: D for 60% extra ghost chance on first&second tick?}

    I've been trying to figure out what the new optimal opener is now, and I'm not quiet good enough with Spriest Theory crafting for it myself.

  2. #2
    well firstly there is no shadow weaving anymore... so no you don't have to start with a set sequence. However you should still put the dots up as soon as possible.

    As far as I know, Evangelism is the 4.0 version of shadow weaving. And correct me if I'm wrong, but an evangelism stack should automatically be reflected on your next dot tick after gaining the stack, so you don't need to refresh it.

  3. #3
    Well not exactly zsun...

    Dots are effected by all % bonuses when they are refreshed, not on a per tick basis.

    However, Mindflay procs evangelism on a per tick basis.
    Mindflay also refreshes SW:P on a per tick basis.

    If mindflay so happens to proc evangelism and a SW:P refresh on the same tick... SW:P will be updated to the new evangelism stack.

    Note whether a mindflay procs 0 or 3 evangelism stacks... Mindflay's damage will not reflect it until the next mindflay is cast.

    There is no point to refreshing a VT or DP early to update with evangelism stacks, doing so will result in a larger dps loss than just refreshing DoTs just before they expire.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmorgrim View Post
    Well not exactly zsun...

    Dots are effected by all % bonuses when they are refreshed, not on a per tick basis.

    However, Mindflay procs evangelism on a per tick basis.
    Mindflay also refreshes SW:P on a per tick basis.

    If mindflay so happens to proc evangelism and a SW:P refresh on the same tick... SW:P will be updated to the new evangelism stack.

    Note whether a mindflay procs 0 or 3 evangelism stacks... Mindflay's damage will not reflect it until the next mindflay is cast.

    There is no point to refreshing a VT or DP early to update with evangelism stacks, doing so will result in a larger dps loss than just refreshing DoTs just before they expire.
    So then in a perfect world, You should refresh all of your dots in the last 2 seconds of their duration, unless you won't be able to for some reason or another? Is it worth weaving in instants{like SW: D prior to the last 25%?} to allow for higher proc rate on apparitions?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshimiko View Post
    So then in a perfect world, You should refresh all of your dots in the last 2 seconds of their duration, unless you won't be able to for some reason or another? Is it worth weaving in instants{like SW: D prior to the last 25%?} to allow for higher proc rate on apparitions?
    never clip your dots
    Quote Originally Posted by Jedi Batman View Post
    Sounds like a euphemism for real life. We throw money at the rich, in hopes that we will someday be rich, and then we get hookers to piss on us. That's what trickle down economics really is.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Skandulous View Post
    never clip your dots
    You can't "Clip" your dots anymore{after 4.0.1}. Casting it doesn't reset the timer until next tic, just the timer til it wears off. The tics aren't even, either with haste, as it doesn't decrease the base duration of the spells- even with this, is it still better to let your dots fall off?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshimiko View Post
    You can't "Clip" your dots anymore{after 4.0.1}. Casting it doesn't reset the timer until next tic, just the timer til it wears off. The tics aren't even, either with haste, as it doesn't decrease the base duration of the spells- even with this, is it still better to let your dots fall off?
    forgot about that.....so yea never let them fall off then
    Quote Originally Posted by Jedi Batman View Post
    Sounds like a euphemism for real life. We throw money at the rich, in hopes that we will someday be rich, and then we get hookers to piss on us. That's what trickle down economics really is.

  8. #8
    Basically the way DoTs work now you have two different penalties for when you refresh:

    1) Cast too early, you suffer increased mana usage, and a slight dps loss from spending more GCDs refreshing dots.

    2) cast too late, and you suffer the same DPS loss as live.

  9. #9
    One thing I want to clarify around the DoT refreshing changes.

    If I refresh VT with 1 second left, my actual cast ends with 1 sec left, what happens? Does the current spell finish and I will see the one I just finished casting show up when it is done?

  10. #10
    Okay. I understand how it works now. Thanks!

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmorgrim View Post
    Basically the way DoTs work now you have two different penalties for when you refresh:

    1) Cast too early, you suffer increased mana usage, and a slight dps loss from spending more GCDs refreshing dots.

    2) cast too late, and you suffer the same DPS loss as live.
    Actually I also believe that casting too early causes DPET loss as well, since your previous cast didn't do as much damage as it was intended to do. So it has become another game of timing it right.

    Before 4.0.1: Time it so that the new DoT applies JUST AFTER the previous one falls off.
    After 4.0.1: Time it so that the new DoT applies JUST BEFORE the previous one falls off.
    Last edited by zsun; 2010-10-08 at 08:58 AM.

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