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  1. #161
    Aftere clicking on the Source link after the Dance studio post I see that Zarhym is a bumbling idiot. In the last post of the source link a poster completely calls Blizzard out on lying and dropping the ball on the dance studio in WotLK, the idiot Zarhym can't defend himself/blizzard so he makes the snide remark of "I like apples and oranges, but not because they taste the same."

    What I think that fool (Zarhym) is trying to get at is that important things to some people (dance studio) arn't as import to other people BUT that wasn't the point the poster was trying to make. It's not so much that it's being pushed aside it's that it has ben pushed aside so much that they broke thier "promise" that it would ever be released.

    It's been pushed back because of Cataclysm? So whats next? it already took them a whole expansion to get nowhere with it. With blizzards lying logic it will never be finished as long as new expansions are planned anytime in the future. Next it will be pushed back for the hypothetical "Emerald Dream" expansion, then whatevers next. The fact that it was announced as part of the starting content of one expansion but was pretty much ignored until the next expansion releases. I've seen no progress, they just claim they have but even then scrapped it. After cataclysm they'll be focused on content patches and fixing bugs then the next expansion. Basically They should just admit they have dropped it! (it will just surprise people when you get off you're ass and finally do it)

  2. #162
    i wanna know how that guy caught that.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimshady View Post
    Guild Cap = 600?

    BYE BYE GOON SQUAD- Mal'Ganis! MWAHAHAHAHA!
    Thats a negative

  4. #164
    anyone else think that it looks like the new fringe trailers

  5. #165
    eww worgens im sorry but I do not want to play a furry

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by isendims View Post
    It is not on the box, I'm looking at it right now. It also doesn't mention air-combat in wintergrasp that some complain about. The box I have is also from release day.
    Air combat is mentioned (and even shown) when you open the front of the box. On mine, at least.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Sterb View Post
    Yup, because rolling out new passwords to 5000 members every couple hours wouldn't be totally obnoxious. Get real.
    Because large guilds certainly don't have their own forums...

    And every couple of hours? If your password info is getting leaked that often then your guild doing something wrong.

    Seriously, there was need for hostility?

  8. #168
    Stood in the Fire lunaspike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evonath View Post
    Luna's right. The sky is indeed falling.

    Let's get real for a second here. I play a protection paladin (going on 3 years now) and I copied over to the PTR. My first dungeon was a horrible mess, but each one to follow got significantly better. After about 10 dungeons, I joined an ICC 10 (no premade toons) and the only threat issue I ran into was the DK who was still using Blood Presence. My survivability was fine - though the healers were having issues in general.

    Was/is it clunky? Yes. It's very different from what it is on Live. Are there "issues"? Sure, minor ones. There's nothing 'broken' about the class. Get over the fact that you don't know how to accept change.

    The sky is falling.
    Please post some screens. I did, several threads back. I'm pretty sure you took at least one right?

    I would rather have massive changes and overhauls than be class like rogue which has barely changed at all.
    Maybe, but I can almost promise you if they told you suddenly "rogues have been redone and now use rage and everything is different" you would want as much information as possible.

    My point is still valid though. The reason we have so many blue posts on the class is because it had to be redone. Now they are trying to explain some of those changes. People don't seem to get that. Most of the people in this forum QQed about paladins being faceroll. They had no solid foundation for it. Even though it is true, retribution was really easy. Healing was more difficult, and so was tanking. The class had a specialty, aoe tanking. It wasn't the best on single target, but it specialized in aoe tanking and mitigation. So now the big question many paladins have (myself included) is where do I fit in. I don't have the survivability of a dk or druid. I don't have their threat, (sure it's better now, but still). My mitigation is block, which has a chance to reduce incoming physical damage in front of by 30%. Really take a look at that.

    1. it must be physical damage
    2. it must come from the front of the paladin (yes there is a cone)
    3. it only has a chance to even mitigate damage
    4. IF it procs, then it will prevent 30% of the damage.

    Warriors are in the same boat on this one. Anyone that has tanked on a paladin knows that the whole point we were shooting for by maximizing health, and armor over things like dodge was to remove rng from the equation. Yet now it is being forced down our throats. I would have no problem with it if they would adjust block, everything else I can work around. My damage was much lower on the ptr, roughly half of live. Still I can live with that, I can figure out ways to make it work. I CAN NOT figure out a way to make RNG work in my favor. It's random. Giving a tank a mitigation based on something random just doesn't work out well. Yet many of our abilities are based on a random proc.

    I'm not saying the sky is falling, I may have to shelve my paladin for a bit in favor of my dk or druid. I will play him if they ever actually get around to fixing the class. Even the guy qqing at me that paladins are fine admitted there were some problems on the ptr. Yet we are supposed to overlook those and trust in blizz to fix them. I think this guy hasn't been playing long or he would remember how many "fixes" paladins have had.
    Last edited by lunaspike; 2010-10-06 at 07:48 AM.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by lunaspike View Post
    You must be a complete idiot. Is this really the mental level that most wow players are at? A little more focus on other classes? How about the focus on fixing the classes they have broken. O.k., let me put this in small words. That is probably all you understand anyway.

    If whatever class you play, probably a rogue/mage/priest, suddenly got completely redone you would want some explanation. Now, in the case of paladins they gave us that, then said "hey, everything works good". Well they lied, big time. Not everything worked good, hell many things didn't work right at all. Imagine if as a mage (thinking this guy is a mage for the whole 2 button class) they suddenly made it so that your am had a chance to proc off your ab which has a chance to proc off of your fireball, or frostbolt. It's very similar to that now. Not only have they completely redone our class in talents, but they have gutted our abilities, added in a new resource, reduced our tanking major mitigation, changed how we deal damage, healing is way way different. There is no other class that has even close to this many changes. On top of that paladins make up a large portion of the player base.

    To the people that want to call them face roll, you are also idiots. Every single class can be thought of as faceroll by someone.

    If you want a direct way this affects you, fine. Paladins switch to dps, since that is what blizz obviously wants us to do. Then your queues get longer, because a big portion of tanks are paladins. When they all quit tanking and roll dps. Guess what happens? That's right, your queue times triple. See how it affects you now. Well now add in how many healers aren't going to be healing, maybe they will reroll priest. If they are smart they will. If not, they dps.
    For your information, i play a warrior (so don't worry since I'm a tank myself) and you don't want me to remember 3.0-3.2 time. I also play an enhancement shaman, but yeah, they are totally OK (not), but no matter how much suggestions the community gives for enhancement shamans... nothing. And then there are paladins.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by lunaspike View Post
    You must be a complete idiot. Is this really the mental level that most wow players are at? A little more focus on other classes? How about the focus on fixing the classes they have broken. O.k., let me put this in small words. That is probably all you understand anyway.
    I find it hilarious that you complain about the 'mental level that most wow players are at', while your own post is full of playground rhetoric.

    Well played, friend. Well played indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul
    Because large guilds certainly don't have their own forums...
    Of course they don't. And Blizz would never put in any kind of function that allows people to view guild-wide announcements, or a space for them to put permanent information about the guild... that would be far too useful.

    :P

    Granted, if the megaguild is split into half a dozen miniguilds, each of those may need updating individually, but still, it's a far cry from rolling it out to 5000 individuals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul
    Seriously, there was need for hostility?
    Welcome to the Internet, where disagreeing automatically makes you wrong and the target of unwarranted hostility to rival a nuclear bombardment.

    ---------- Post added 2010-10-07 at 12:50 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Argroth View Post
    What I think that fool (Zarhym) is trying to get at is that important things to some people (dance studio) arn't as import to other people BUT that wasn't the point the poster was trying to make. It's not so much that it's being pushed aside it's that it has ben pushed aside so much that they broke thier "promise" that it would ever be released.
    Actually, what I think Zarhym meant was that the comparison made by that poster isn't really a valid comparison. For one thing, game design doesn't have much in common with making milkshakes. For another, saying "this has been pushed aside in favor of other projects we think are more valuable to the game" is not really like "We are not going to do it, but we're still advertising it five months after we initially intended to release it".

    I mean, it's not like they're advertising it on worldofwarcraft.com, is it? I don't think I've seen Boub make a single update post about it in the last few months... hell, this is the first I've ever heard of it and I'm still not sure exactly what we're talking about. I may not be the most clued-up player when it comes to behind the scenes stuff (too busy playing and working IRL), but I'm surprised that if this is SUCH A BIG ISSUE, I haven't heard of it.

    I get the impression that the devs don't like repeating themselves. So if you keep harping on a point they feel they have already explained enough, then at best they won't answer, and at worst you get a snide remark about apples and oranges.

  11. #171
    its not really spelt fail... because the L is not an L because of the degrees used..., but sure whatever you say... bad easter egg.

  12. #172
    Ah, interesting

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by JaceDraccus View Post
    Actually, what I think Zarhym meant was that the comparison made by that poster isn't really a valid comparison. For one thing, game design doesn't have much in common with making milkshakes. For another, saying "this has been pushed aside in favor of other projects we think are more valuable to the game" is not really like "We are not going to do it, but we're still advertising it five months after we initially intended to release it".

    I mean, it's not like they're advertising it on worldofwarcraft.com, is it? I don't think I've seen Boub make a single update post about it in the last few months... hell, this is the first I've ever heard of it and I'm still not sure exactly what we're talking about. I may not be the most clued-up player when it comes to behind the scenes stuff (too busy playing and working IRL), but I'm surprised that if this is SUCH A BIG ISSUE, I haven't heard of it.

    I get the impression that the devs don't like repeating themselves. So if you keep harping on a point they feel they have already explained enough, then at best they won't answer, and at worst you get a snide remark about apples and oranges.
    Actually it is a good comparison. The poster wasn't saying it is as easy as making milkshakes but just like McDonalds makes milshakes Blizzard makes software, each should be responsible for the product they make. So far it IS "we are not going to do it" as much as Duke Nukem forever was constantly pushed back then decided it was never done, but at least DNF had a few hints as to how far progressed it has gotten.

    IT IS advertised on Worldofwarcraft.com (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/wrath/) not to mention it was in half the commercials and trailers right up to WotLK release. Boub hasn't posted anything cause like I've stated, they've for all intents and purposes have abandoned it; there is no progress. It was advertised as a WotLK feature and unless it appears in the next two months it is vaporware because they lied and there is no limit to how far they will push it back. It's not a BIG issue because Blizzard sweeps it under the rug all the time (like Zarhyms useless post) while throwing different things in our face to distract the simple minded children who are distracted by shiny things.

    Sure devs don't like repeating themselves but what they repeat is nothing; "We were going to do it but then didn't, we are going to get around to it soon" but they have already established that any progress goes in front of keeping their responsibilities in order because it's an endless cycle as long as they even consider the idea for another expansion or more money grubbing things like the Pet Store

  14. #174
    Huh, yup, there it is, a customisation option. Ok, I concede that it is, in fact, on the worldofwarcraft.com site. Even if it is on a page that most people wouldn't bother looking at now, this far into Wrath.

    So no, it's not a good comparison. The original scenario implied that McDonalds would still be advertising the shakes despite not being able to supply them. This is more like they left the sign up and pasted the most recent promotion over the top of it.

    Zarhym did say ' we weren't happy with the feature overall as we got closer to release.' That's like McDonalds saying "We found that the food colouring in the shakes may cause cancer".

    I can't see how that is not being responsible for their product. If it was buggy, or glitched constantly, people would QQ even harder about it. For example, it's possible that the dance matrices for each race are not one size fits all. Watching your gnome get ripped apart or stretched out so he can dance like a tauren doesn't sound fun.

    Are we defining 'no progress' as 'not released', or 'not worked on at all'? If it's the latter, how do you know? Also... 'game experience may change during online play'.

    And maybe, just maybe, people wouldn't get repeated 'nothing' if they didn't harp on the same old issue. You got 'nothing' the first time, what are the odds that will change the 10th? 100th? 1000th?

    In any case, it's their game, their company, their choice how they spend their time. All they owe you for your subscription is access to a functioning game. If you get a dance studio, great! If they don't release it when they initially thought they'd be able to, well, sure that's disappointing, but bitching at them, shouting out cries of 'vaporware' and 'fools!' does nothing worthwhile.

    EDIT: I will concede that Zarhym's remark about apples and oranges may not be entirely professional, and that a little more transparency on the issue may go some way to cutting down on the whining about it. But, you know, Zarhym's still human... unless Blizzard has cyborg technology. So maybe he had a bad day, or the bile and invective frustrated him. I know it frustrates me. Also, keep in mind that he's probably got rules on how much he can say on a topic so as to prevent spoilers or accidentally letting slip things that get the community overexcited before Blizz are ready for it.

    It can't be an easy job dealing with WoW players. Sometimes it's painful enough just reading trade chat. At least I can go quest to get away from it, or turn off the channel.
    Last edited by JaceDraccus; 2010-10-06 at 08:35 PM.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by JaceDraccus View Post
    Even if it is on a page that most people wouldn't bother looking at now, this far into Wrath.
    Just because it isn't on the main page dosn't mean that they didn't say they would do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by JaceDraccus View Post
    So no, it's not a good comparison. The original scenario implied that McDonalds would still be advertising the shakes despite not being able to supply them. This is more like they left the sign up and pasted the most recent promotion over the top of it.

    Zarhym did say ' we weren't happy with the feature overall as we got closer to release.' That's like McDonalds saying "We found that the food colouring in the shakes may cause cancer".
    Actually the "We found that the food colouring in the shakes may cause cancer" is the worst comparison yet. I can't be 100% sure but i'm pretty sure that introducing a simple "Pick a dance your character can do" wouldn't break the game (certainly not anymore than any patch would). Blizzard didn't quite "Paste over it" but it is still advertised and it dosn't exist as far as we know. Like I said they swept it under the rug because they can't be bothered to do their job

    Quote Originally Posted by JaceDraccus View Post
    I can't see how that is not being responsible for their product. If it was buggy, or glitched constantly, people would QQ even harder about it. For example, it's possible that the dance matrices for each race are not one size fits all. Watching your gnome get ripped apart or stretched out so he can dance like a tauren doesn't sound fun.
    Even if they released it buggy or incomplete they can fix it eventually and have it over with but if they leave it unfinished forever overall they will get just as much grief for it, but this way they avoid all responsibility because they can can claim they are working on it and noone can call them out on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by JaceDraccus View Post
    Are we defining 'no progress' as 'not released', or 'not worked on at all'? If it's the latter, how do you know? Also... 'game experience may change during online play'.

    And maybe, just maybe, people wouldn't get repeated 'nothing' if they didn't harp on the same old issue. You got 'nothing' the first time, what are the odds that will change the 10th? 100th? 1000th?
    As long as they claim that "it's in the works" and it may come out "soon" with no proof of progress over the 2 years its supposedly in development I can claim that they havn't with equally no proof.

    The point in asking the 10th,100th and 1000th time is that over time progress should have been made but hasn't. If people don't keep on it it can disappear into the ether and they get off scott free for lying.

    Quote Originally Posted by JaceDraccus View Post
    but bitching at them, shouting out cries of 'vaporware' and 'fools!' does nothing worthwhile.
    Technically here it's unlikely that any blizzard employee will ever see it but, like any comment, people like to vent their opinion. I can't even post on blizzard forums if I wanted too because I quit WoW months ago and i can't sign in with a frozen account.

  16. #176
    At the end of the day, mate, believe what you like. I can't change your mind. I think you're being overly pessimistic and bitter about it ('couldn't be bothered to do their job'? 'scot free for lying'? That is some loaded language right there), but hey, that's your choice. I just can't shape my perspective to fit your world view.

  17. #177
    Mechagnome kojinshugi's Avatar
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    I really don't understand their reasoning.

    Rotations with gaps need MORE attention because they can't be handled by muscle memory. It's not as if pushing a button every 1.5 seconds is a massively complicated task, yet they say they want to give us more time to deal with fight mechanics and less with rotation.

    Pushing buttons doesn't conflict with looking around, unless you're a clicker, because pushing buttons doesn't require your attention. Figuring out when to use every single ability you have does take actual attention, and therefore decreases the amount of mental resources you have available for situational awareness.

    It's like saying the piano is too difficult to play so we'll randomly transpose they keyboard and indicate where the octave starts with colored lights. Thanks, now I can't look at the sheet music because I have to stare at my fingers.

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