Cataclysm -- Justice Point Drop Quantities

[Calaba]

Honestly, I couldn't care less about people being able to do daily heroics for epics. Really, that's fine, it take so long to get anything that the next raiding tier will be out before they've got more than a few bits of gear. Raiders will get gear about 5 times faster.

What i'm wondering, though, is what the weekly valor points cap will be, ie, can you reach the cap from doing JUST the 10-man raids, and so don't need to run the 5-mans for the points??

[Zinzani]

Its been that way for the last 2 years, why didnt you quite then?

Honestly, I have no problem with them trying new systems out on live to see how they work for the more casual players. It, in my opinion, hasn't worked very well. Now we have GS rioters and people who do not know how to play their own class despite being handed some very good rewards. They have all the tools they need to get to the LK between gear and plenty of online guides such as tankspot. Yet, they cannot and their raids usually fall apart somewhere around Putricide or BQ Lana.

I think they have done a great job giving opportunities to my truly casual rl friends. However, I don't think the best way to teach them how to play their class and work with others is through random heroics. I would be ok with the rest of the vp rewards being offered for jp's once the next raiding tier is out minus the tier gear. The tier 11 at that point should be purchasable only by a token from the corresponding raid at that point. They would have plenty of more jp rewards to get in and clear the t11 raid at that point.

If you wanted a shorter version of why I stuck around so long. Plenty of my guildmates (3yrs in this guild) really were looking forward to getting the LK down for their own personal lore enjoyment. I'm not going to be part of the problem and bail on them especially after we lost so many core members when ToC was released.

Also, I am still going to buy and enjoy Cata. Just not sure if it will be much fun once everyone is steamrolling heroics in 15 minutes again.

[paladins]

For starters, I hope the end game is really hard and I hope epics are hard to get, and everyone gets what they want. Sadly, I see a huge tidal wave of QQ coming once everyone hits 85 and everyone wants cheap epics or easymode raids. Ultimately, I'm worried casual people will have nothing to do since this system reminds me of the old trap where "Gotta have Kingslayer to join an ICC raid." Speculatively, this will just make casuals leave, make Activision CEOs gasp at their subscribership and then Blizz will do the same thing as LK by introducing a free-to-gear TOC epics and ICC buff, or decide not enough people are seeing the end game and same as LK, yada yada.

It's all moot right now anyways. I'm gonna have a blast for sure and that's all I know.

[Baltha89]

You will only be able to buy tier gear when a new one is out. And you will be using Valor Points to do it. So you will only be able to buy tier 11 with valor points when tier 12 is out.

[Eleri]

As someone who's still working on gearing up a new main when 4.0.1 hits, I'm curious--how much do, say, T9 and T10 cost in Justice Points?

Still looking for an answer to this, please. The only kid who looked at my post called me an idiot, ignoring the fact that Cata is two months away and some of us still need something to do in those two months.

[boricuaxo]

Still looking for an answer to this, please. The only kid who looked at my post called me an idiot, ignoring the fact that Cata is two months away and some of us still need something to do in those two months.

If you want something to do, just work on achievements, visit old content. All the effort you giving right now is gonna go away very soon. So don't stress too much on gear. It will be worthless very soon.

[sluggs]

105 valor points seems good per boss. remember there is a cap to how much valor points you can earn a week.

[Marema]

"Daily"

Doesn't make sense, does it?

Why doesn't it? You have a "daily" now. The 1st heroic random you do is considered the "daily" hence why you get 2 frost badges and no more for the rest of your heroic randoms.

So instead of 2 frost badges, you get the daily points.

Pretty easy to understand.

[Ghostfaced]

Yay, twink pve characters will survive!

[Palegod]

Still looking for an answer to this, please. The only kid who looked at my post called me an idiot, ignoring the fact that Cata is two months away and some of us still need something to do in those two months.

From what I recall on PTR, every item is (CurrentPrice * 11.58) ... which means that everything costs the same as it does now, and the only difference is that you can save triumphs now and in effect use them to buy frost gear in a week. Bosses will give 16 JPs each after 4.0.1 instead of the 11.58 you get right now, but it also sounds like there is no bonus for doing random heroics beyond the first each day any more so you actually get less points per dungeon than you do now.

[Argroth]

Why not? You have no right to tell who shouldn't be buying what. If a man managed to save enough money working Taco Bell to buy a Porsche, I'd have more respect for HIM than you. Cause that's fucking hard!

Just because someone COULD dosn't mean they SHOULD. Unless he's the president of Taco Bell and can't be fired then a porshe IS a stupid idea. I doubt he payed the whole price up front and the payments must be massive on top of insurance. When you havn't accomplished more than a Taco bell job in life, odds are you have a lot of problems you need to take care of before you waste your money on an expensive car. I know a guy who rents a house but is on welfare with no job, just because he can abuse the system and get a house dosn't mean he should... do you respect him too?

[Kilpi]

As long as they make raids to give enough Valor points to get people caped for the week and keep the busy-ass-idiot-raiders out of 5-mans I'm fine with these.

[Tang]

wtf? If 10 and 25 share lockouts and loot, why are the JP rewards different?

Because 25 man is harder to organize, and they want to give incentives to those who are hardcore enough to go to the extra trouble.

They talked about this at the same time they talked about having the same loot between 10 and 25 man raids.

[davep]

Actually, I recall former (and maybe still current) members of the former Nihilum expressing great disappointment in BC when you could purchase T5/6 equivalent gear with BoJ. And of course, their disappointment, and causing some to quit, has continued into WotLK (in their current guild, Ensidia).

and those people who quit were either getting carried which is extremely possible in a top tier guild or they were already getting tired of the game at that point and that little change just gave them a reason to "quit". I wouldn't be surprised if they are playing again.

[Menedude]

What is it with everyone hating that casual players can get tier gear? if they don't raid they'll never upgrade it and who cares what someone else gets? Who cares if all they do is run 5-mans in their tier gear? who cares if someone gets it and just sits in Stormwind all day long?

Enjoy the content, enjoy the fights, play in whatever way YOU want to and stop caring so much about what other people can get.

When I was a kid people had to FARM their own vegetables from scratch, now you can just buy it at the grocery store. boohoo why did I have to work so hard for them and everyone else gets some so easily. If you don't want to farm vegetables you should just eat bread, vegetables are for the elite only. I don't care if someone only has 2 hours a day to farm vegetables because they take care of sick kittens and i don't care if it took God 7 years to create the vegetables, only me and my 9 buddies should have some.

[guice]

Just because someone COULD dosn't mean they SHOULD. Unless he's the president of Taco Bell and can't be fired then a porshe IS a stupid idea. I doubt he payed the whole price up front and the payments must be massive on top of insurance. When you havn't accomplished more than a Taco bell job in life, odds are you have a lot of problems you need to take care of before you waste your money on an expensive car. I know a guy who rents a house but is on welfare with no job, just because he can abuse the system and get a house dosn't mean he should... do you respect him too?

Oh, I was waiting for somebody to bring that up. You're mistaken. We're talking about *outright BUY* no additional costs (payments, insurance, maintenance, etc). We're trying to compare apples to apples here. People are bitching a person can save up Valor points and get a top tier item, no more additional costs after that. So, if you save up to buy a Porsche, straight out, with no additional costs, getting fired from Taco Bell would be irrelevant.

It was a hypothetical situation that was brought up, so I went along with it to prove they were mistaken. Clearly, in order to insure proper comparison, we had to change the rules on the side of the Porsche to match the rules in game.

[mstieler]

Ouch. not sure if anyone did some number crunching (and I don't want to read through 10 pages to see if they did) but here's what I came up with:

Note: numbers are rounded up to the nearest whole number

Justice Points:
For a full set of Justice point rewards, you'll need 12800 Justice Points
Note: this includes Chest, Hands, Head, Legs, Shoulder, Waist, & Neck, since all classes will have those, and does not include the weapons/offhands available, since not all classes will use them.
That equals 171 Cata Daily normal dungeon runs or Cata heroic dungeon boss kills (or a mix of the two).

I'm not counting Wrath stuff, because that's a stupidly large amount of times you'd need to farm to get the cheapest piece of intro-to-raiding gear. For 1 (one) piece of offhand caster/shield/weapon gear, you're looking at 950 points. That's 42 Wrath Daily Heroics or Wrath Raid bosses, 60 Wrath Heroic bosses, or 80 Wrath Daily Regular dungeons, for a single piece of gear that will be replaced by a drop in ANY Cata raid.

Valor Points (ooh, this is painful):
There's a couple "missing" items I found here, which will throw the numbers off a little: no Agility DPS ring, and no Mail Spell DPS feet. I'm calculating the numbers as if those were there.
For a full set of Valor point rewards, you'll need 12550 Valor Points.
Note: this is for 3 T11 (Chest/Legs/Hands), Feet, Back, 1 Ring, Trinket & Relic
That equals 167 Cata Daily Heroic Dungeons or Cata 10-man boss kills, or 120 Cata 25-man boss kills (or a mix of the three).

Oh, and don't forget your 2 Tier 11 tokens for your Head & Shoulders. Can't forget those.

Enjoy the pain, and welcome back to farming.

Edit: for all the hate of casuals getting Tier, just note that casuals won't have their Head or Shoulders unless they can raid, and therefore can only get the 2-piece bonus at best.

[Terracresta]

I wonder, if you can really buy lvl85 stuff with lvl80 characters and farm more points. On the PTR i couldnt buy a green lvl29 bow from an npc as a lvl24 hunter. Always got a message, that my level is to low to buy it. oO

[Gunslinger]

I was hoping for 10man raids to provide a bit more "juice" then the Daily Heroics and maybe have Hard Modes give a bit of extra but it's pretty balanced out although I can see that the rate of gearing up in 25man raid is going to be quite fast.

30more points per boss is quite a "buff" in addition with more loot/player drop ratio. I'm pretty sure that the first people to do HC10 will be those guys who run 25man raids that get all they gear they need weeks(maybe months) before 10man guilds.

[Szemere]

So....if we turn off experience gain form the little gobbo in SW (for example)....we can farm LK heroics for points?

...just saying

How about just farming hc's @ 85 and getting some nice blues from that as well, and tbh, u cant buy too much gear from a capped amount of points =(